Homosexuality in the Medical Community

[M Sinner]

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I am a bisexual Sophomore in Undergraduate studies bent on getting into Medical School. I've gotten the feel, though, that the Medical community is a bit wary of homosexuals (despite it's removal as a psychiatric disorder in '73). I've browsed through some preliminary literature on the matter, and it's only mildly reassuring... not to mention outdated.

Is my bisexuality something that I should keep quiet about in my endeavors to make it into Medical School? Regardless, I don't intend to make a big deal of my orientation. However, I'm willing to make the sacrifice of silence if being open would negatively affect my my standing.

Any other opinions or literature that could be given on the matter would be greatly appreciated.

 

[f_w]

If you don't make it an issue, nobody will care.

 

[DoctaJay]

Some schools are more conservative than others. If you do a search in the preallo forum, you will bring up many threads that list gay-friendly schools. As a whole, the medical community is still very conservative, so I would suggest that you not stand out in that way when applying. Once accepted, you can do what you want.

 

[jdh71]

I am a bisexual Sophomore in Undergraduate studies bent on getting into Medical School. I've gotten the feel, though, that the Medical community is a bit wary of homosexuals (despite it's removal as a psychiatric disorder in '73). I've browsed through some preliminary literature on the matter, and it's only mildly reassuring... not to mention outdated.

Is my bisexuality something that I should keep quiet about in my endeavors to make it into Medical School? Regardless, I don't intend to make a big deal of my orientation. However, I'm willing to make the sacrifice of silence if being open would negatively affect my my standing.

Any other opinions or literature that could be given on the matter would be greatly appreciated.

Be like the government and give information on a NEED to know basis. I cannot imagine why anyone NEEDS to know your sexual orientation in this context. You're into dudes and chicks - bonus. I didn't talk about my orientation, which is plain vanilla straight, during the process and I can't imagine a reason why would need to either.

You are who you are - just be.

Let your academic record, MCAT scores, and relevent extracurriculars stand for themselves. I went a conservative medical school and I know of three homosexuals in my class. It wasn't a problem as far as they expressed to me.

 

[Nuriko]

I am gay and just started my 3rd year. Im only one rotation in, but I havent really been harrassed by anyone in any way.

As far as I have seen, most doctors, even the most conservative, are very open minded as far as the patient is concerned. I have been taught over the course of 2 yrs by several profs and attendings to NEVER assume the patient's sexuality and to NEVER judge or put your own beliefs in the picture.

As far as how my sexuality will affect my interaction with colleagues, I have yet to see any real discrimination, but it is also still early on...

 

[M Sinner]

Thanks, all! This feedback really does help quite a bit. I came out before I made my decision to try for Medical School, so I feared that I might have prematurely sealed my fate.

I'm not overly-flamboyant about it, though a large portion of my friends are LGBT, and I participate in some LGBT events (Day of Silence, etc). I'll just keep flying straight (haha!) and acting right, and just hope that I can pass muster to get in. I was never going to mention my orientation to the schools, but was afraid that they might check on it.


Again, thank you all for the feedback! Here's to hoping!

 

[elwademd]

i went to school with a number of people who were either gay or bisexual; and actually had a number of attendings that were either gay or bisexual... and it wasn't an issue.

as stated earlier:

Be like the government and give information on a NEED to know basis. I cannot imagine why anyone NEEDS to know your sexual orientation in this context. You're into dudes and chicks - bonus. I didn't talk about my orientation, which is plain vanilla straight, during the process and I can't imagine a reason why would need to either.

with that said, i think you'll be fine.

 

[lomaloom]

These replies so far on this board have been very optimistic, however personal stories should not be trusted like facts. The AAMC did a survey amoung gay medical school students and residents, the statistics show that homophobia is still very evident in medicine. http://www.aamc.org/newsroom/reporter/july07/discrimination.htm

http://www.aamc.org/newsroom/reporter/feb01/homosexual.htm
I am gay and I want to study medicine one day, and I just want to say I don't think it is right for someone to willingly hide their sexuality in order to advance their career. I would prefer not to talk about my sexuality because it is private and it does not reflect on my ability, but if I don't talk about it then medical professionals will continue to keep the same homophobic attitudes. Working in medicine and being openly gay is absolutley necessary in order to quell the homophobia that closets doctors.

If you're interested in this issue then look up Jeevan Padiyar, he was thrown out of the Albert Eienstein School of Medicine for "academic insufficiency" after he told the administration he was gay while filing a complaint about a homophobic roommate.

 

[scowdeva]

I would never suggest to anyone to lie about themselves in ANY way during the application process, but I dont see why you would want to discuss your sexuality with the adcoms to begin with. I would never walk in and want to talk about my personal life that way, because if I am homosexual or straight it would not affect my professional life.

One of my friends in college was, um, flamboyantly gay, refused to play the part during interviews, and still got accepted. The only thing I could suggest would be if they outright ask you, then answer if you would like to talk about it. Otherwise, keep your personal life personal, at least until you get the official acceptance letter.

 

[efex101]

I do not see how your sexual orientation has "anything" to do with your medical training and your interaction with patients...this has NEVER come up ....

 

[Doctor Bagel]

My thought is that you should be honest if it comes up in an interview, and you should put down your LGBT activities. If a school rejects you for that, it's pretty clear it's not a school you'd want to go to anyway. I can say that at my school in super conservative land, we do have out students, and it seems to not be a big issue. But apparently about 20% of our class thinks homosexuality is a mental illness (based on a quiz we had in HB), so I guess people are just quiet about their homophobia, but it's there.

 

[just thoughts]

how you choose to represent yourself (and that includes your sexual orientation of course) is totally up to you. if you choose to be "closeted" in certain moments and that works well for you, then so be it. if you choose to be "out" all of the time and that works well for you, then cool.

the truth is that there are repercussions for both choices, personally and professionally, whether anyone likes it or not. while some places and people will be more non-heterosexual friendly at times, there will always be "that one time..."

as for the "don't ask, don't tell" rule, it could only work as great policy if EVERYONE followed that rule. the reality is that when men talk about seeing a movie over the weekend with their girlfriend, or women mention that great dinner that their boyfriend made for them or either sex is planning a traditional wedding, they are "telling" and the rest of the world starts to infer some things from there.

how many times do we hear about the person that NEVER talks about a significant friend of the opposite sex? how many times do other people start wondering if s/he is gay? we're socialized beings. and we "ask."

if only the non-heterosexual people are expected not to do any of the "telling," well, that makes the game a lot easier to play, no?

oh yeah, and apologies to anyone that i may have offended in my use of the term "non-heterosexual people." i just wanted to be inclusive, and there are too many possible acronym options.

just thoughts...

 

[f_w]

as for the "don't ask, don't tell" rule, it could only work as great policy if EVERYONE followed that rule. the reality is that when men talk about seeing a movie over the weekend with their girlfriend, or women mention that great dinner that their boyfriend made for them or either sex is planning a traditional wedding, they are "telling" and the rest of the world starts to infer some things from there.

I don't think that I ever had that come up in any kind of job or admission interview.

how many times do other people start wondering if s/he is gay? we're socialized beings. and we "ask."

I don't know 'we' and 'other people'

 

[bjolly]

here's how it may come up for me (and did, in my med school admission interview): the interviewer asks if I'm married or have kids. I have a partner of 5 years as well as a child. If I say yes, often the next question is "what does your husband do?" Then I have a choice of outing myself, or pretending to have a husband. If I say no, I'm not married, but acknowledge having a child, they'll assume I'm a single parent, and wonder how I can handle residency and raising my child. If I dodge the question by denying the existence of my family, it feels pretty crappy.

of course all these questions are illegal, but they get asked anyway.

 

[just thoughts]

I don't think that I ever had that come up in any kind of job or admission interview.

i probably should have specified more...the person above this post indicated a time in which it came up during an interview. i was specifically thinking about casual conversation while in school (or work), as i can see this as an issue not limited to interviews.

while the OP or anyone else, for that matter, may get into medical school, that doesn't mean that the potential awkwardness ends there. inevitably, there will be moments in which students get together and discuss what they did over the weekend, express excitement about an engagement or a new baby. and there are plenty of other examples, if you need more. depending on how they respond to the situation, this can make for some tense moments for those that may not be heterosexual.

I don't know 'we' and 'other people'

pardon me for generalizing, but i'm doing to do it again. we all may not personally know someone that asks about another person's sexual identity when the asker isn't clear on it. however, i have the general feeling, especially if you live in the US, are a somewhat social being, and/or have ever interacted with just about any form of media, that you may be familiar with the phenomenon. if not, welcome to the social world.

 

[njbmd]

I am a bisexual Sophomore in Undergraduate studies bent on getting into Medical School. I've gotten the feel, though, that the Medical community is a bit wary of homosexuals (despite it's removal as a psychiatric disorder in '73). I've browsed through some preliminary literature on the matter, and it's only mildly reassuring... not to mention outdated.

Is my bisexuality something that I should keep quiet about in my endeavors to make it into Medical School? Regardless, I don't intend to make a big deal of my orientation. However, I'm willing to make the sacrifice of silence if being open would negatively affect my my standing.

Any other opinions or literature that could be given on the matter would be greatly appreciated.

This is a tough call for you and definitely "school" dependent. I know that GW has a very active LBGT Student Association that is very politically active. I have also known several openly gay/bisexual medical students who have attended that school with apparantly no problems. On the other hand, move 10 blocks to the west and you find Georgetown which has a distinctivly different reception to LBGT students because it is run by the Jesuits.

While I certainly understand how coming to terms with your sexuality and its impact on your personality/social life has contributed to your growth as a person, it is likely that it will have little effect on your medical school experience, residency or future practice.

I don't know that the medical community is any more "wary" of homosexuals than American society in general. Some places/people are going to accept you as they find you and others won't.

 

[f_w]

while the OP or anyone else, for that matter, may get into medical school, that doesn't mean that the potential awkwardness ends there.

Such is life.

The OP is concerned about getting into medschool. Once you are in, you are set. Yes, unless you go to great lenghts to cover your tracks, some of your classmates will pick up on your sexual orientation, but at that point, who gives a flying copwie ?

pardon me for generalizing, but i'm doing to do it again. we all may not personally know someone that asks about another person's sexual identity when the asker isn't clear on it. however, i have the general feeling, especially if you live in the US, are a somewhat social being, and/or have ever interacted with just about any form of media, that you may be familiar with the phenomenon.

And ?

People get nosy, you can give them an answer appropriate for the situation. This can reach from politely evading the question to 'none of your f##_)##% business'..

 

[lomaloom]

it is likely that it will have little effect on your medical school experience, residency or future practice.

I don't think it's fair to say this, surveys and studies have shown that being gay in medicine and other professional fields has a very big impact. The problem is people think it doesn't really exist because they see it directly, but it does and it affects people's careers. I feel Homophobia is a bigger problem in today's society than racism, saying homophobia doesn't exist in medicine is like saying racism doesn't either; it's there and it's hurting people.

http://www.aamc.org/newsroom/reporte...rimination.htm

http://www.aamc.org/newsroom/reporte...homosexual.htm

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1119641

 

[just thoughts]

Such is life.

The OP is concerned about getting into medschool. Once you are in, you are set. Yes, unless you go to great lenghts to cover your tracks, some of your classmates will pick up on your sexual orientation, but at that point, who gives a flying copwie ?

you're right. the OP is concerned about getting into med school. i was commenting on the "after" part since that also seems important to me, but i guess that the OP will figure it out from there.

And ?

People get nosy, you can give them an answer appropriate for the situation. This can reach from politely evading the question to 'none of your f##_)##% business'..

i personally don't think that works for everyone (polite or otherwise), but that's an individual thing.

OP, i think that instincts and a bit of common sense (however common it may or may not be) can help get you through. it seems that you have a bit of a guard, which may be necessary in some situations and not in others.

 

[DiveMD]

Sexuality is private. Period.

 

[Yourmother]

Sexuality is private. Period.

Agreed.

 

[aaj117]

Sexuality is private. Period.

That's all well and good in theory, but straight people don't keep it private, so everything is normalized by the heterosexual lifestyle. For example, if sexuality is so private, why is it that a man could say "my girlfriend/wife just got a job in the area" during an interview as a reason to go there? Shouldn't they say partner or significant other if their sexuality is so private? if it doesn't have to be kept private for straight people, why should it have to be for others?

 

[lomaloom]

That's all well and good in theory, but straight people don't keep it private, so everything is normalized by the heterosexual lifestyle. For example, if sexuality is so private, why is it that a man could say "my girlfriend/wife just got a job in the area" during an interview as a reason to go there? Shouldn't they say partner or significant other if their sexuality is so private? if it doesn't have to be kept private for straight people, why should it have to be for others?

Thats exactly what I was talking about. There are sociological studies that show the only to increase tolerance is when people come into personal contact with members of that minority. For gay people to be accepted we have to be open about our sexuality as much straight people are, like I said, this has been proven in empirical studies. In an ideal world sexuality would be private, but its not and we cant pretend that it is otherwise gay people will be in the closet forever.

 

[f_w]

There are sociological studies that show the only to increase tolerance is when people come into personal contact with members of that minority. For gay people to be accepted we have to be open about our sexuality as much straight people are, like I said, this has been proven in empirical studies.

Well, there are studies, and then there is life.

While it might be good for the cause to show up for your interview carying a mens purse and with streaks of blonde dyed into your hair, it sure as hell won't further your personal career in medicine.

 

[Nevadanteater]

OP: Be open about your sexuality in regards to how it has affected your decision to pursue medicine. If you've been working in a free clinic for LGBT patients and you decided to work there because of your sexuality, it is completely appropriate to discuss. If you're being asked about your decision to attend a specific medical school, perhaps where your significant other lives, it is appropriate. But just bringing it up for the sake of bringing it up, kinda silly. I'm not saying be closeted or anything - feel free to discuss your boyfriend/girlfriend, but don't focus on it unless it relates to the question at hand.

At at least some level it is up to you to normalize homosexuality...

What does that mean?

Don't get flustered if questions related (even peripherally) to your sexuality arise. Treat them as you would any other question. Perhaps you feel attacked or inappropriate questions have been asked. Who cares? Answer them and answer them well.

While it might be good for the cause to show up for your interview carying a mens purse and with streaks of blonde dyed into your hair, it sure as hell won't further your personal career in medicine.

I don't even know where to begin with this... A good applicant is a good applicant man purse or no (though as a gay male i AM hugely anti-manpurse)...

 

[f_w]

A good applicant is a good applicant man purse or no (though as a gay male i AM hugely anti-manpurse)...

If you are a good applicant, you don't want your appearance to distract from your professional qualifications. Just like a female applicant wouldn't benefit from coming to an interview with glass-heeled overknee boots (sure, your resumee looks stellar, but say, do you strip on the side ?)

(this was not so much about man-purses or appearance in general. it was more about whether you want to be a hero by slapping people in the face with something they might or might not care to know about)

 

[aaj117]

well i don't know if the OP is still reading this thread or not, but I just wanted to give him or her a personal anecdote to see if it was at all encouraging. As far as applying to medical school, it is definitely not necessary to be closeted, but bring up your orientation as it is necessary. I struggled for a long time in deciding whether or not to be out in the application process, but my pre-health advisor convinced me it would be a good idea if i did so discreetly; I listed all of my LGBT activities during undergrad, and occassionaly wrote about how they would impact me as a physician. I never directly mentioned my orientation, but in my application i included being an LGBT peer educator, working as an intern in my school's LGBT center, and being an officer in my school's pride alliance. I spoke with the deans of admissions of Harvard and Penn about this, as well as with my pre-health advisor, and they all agreed that this could only help me as it shows a signfiicant amount of leadership and a large time committment. In a couple of essays, i wrote about the LGBT community as one with special health care concerns that i would like to bring to light to my peers, and coincidentally i got interviews at all of the schools where i wrote about this. I also described experiences with trans patients who had told me they had previously been denied healthcare to solidify this and to describe how these experiences have impacted my desire to become a physician and even work in underserved communities. Like i said, i never directly discussed my own orientation because that was not relevant to my application or why i'd be a good physician. But being out in applications the way that i have has not seemed to hurt me at all. Granted, i didn't apply to Loma Linda, but i did apply to Georgetown, a jesuit school, where they were more than welcoming and accepting of my activism activities and my desire to continue them during medical school. Hope some of that helps, you can look at my MDapps to see which schools have been friendly towards it so far, and PM me if you have any direct questions or just need general advice. I have recieved a lot of great advice from my school's pre-health advising committee as well as lots of adcom members i've met at different events, so i'm more than happy to pass that on.

 

[DoctorNB]

Thanks aaj117 for your insight and experience. It is comforting to know that you have encountered advisors and adcoms that are supportive while you move forward in becoming a physician. Glad I found this thread.

Although I have not applied yet, as a non-trad who spent a the first two years figuring out why I had different feelings than other girls, I know that my terrible performance will become a factor and questioned during interviews. I believe my experience during the coming out phase of my life greatly impacted my personality and character in the sense that I am more tolerant/accepting/understanding/compassionate toward all aspects that make an individual a human being. I grew up in a very conservative family, (although it lacked religion) and went to a university in a very-gay friendly city. But even being submersed in a gay-friendly city, I knew there was something, not wrong, but different about myself.

I hate to define what I am to people, I feel love is love, no matter the gender. I know I will not shout out in my application that I am a lesbian, however, I know it will come up and I will be proud and answer the question the best way I know how to, from my heart. I believe it makes me a stronger individual and more driven to succeed.

I think the decision to out or not out yourself is solely up to you. In my case, it greatly affected my education as I began to understand myself and has made me the person I am. Of course, have all your ducks in the row, ie MCAT, gpa, EC's, LORs, etc.

My two cents...

 

[aaj117]

glad i could help a little; i really enjoy posting on the lgbt/queer threads because i feel like this is the most under-represented applicant pool on SDN and there really just isn't a lot of advice out there. I can't pretend to be an expert as i'm not on an adcom, but i seem to be doing pretty well and don't mind sharing any information anyone may be looking for on this topic, particular schools, or my past experiences, so anyone can feel free to PM me with more specific questions or they just need support or advice or someone to listen.

 

[URM4all]

Oh, this is so refreshing and good to see LGBT people in medicine speaking about their experiences. It needs to be talked about. The majority's lack of exposure to the minority's existence and experiences will only further our (LGBT and underrepresented minorities) marginalization.

Sexuality is fun, complex, and important. I feel it's imperative to be reflective of our own sexuality for our patients' sake. They will look to us for answers and perhaps disclose to us the one thing that they will not disclose to anyone else. It's important we be comfortable in our own shoes, lest we erode patient trust.

 

[DoctorNB]

URM4all, have you encountered issues while a med student/fellow?

Society loves labels. Why does society have to "define" who is apart of what community and what makes that community without really UNDERSTANDING what the community is about? Although I am not muslim or of Russian decent (just listing some different communities I am not apart of but know some very cool things about them), I have respect for these communities because they are apart of the human life.

Ironically, I often find that when I come out to people, they ask, are you the butch or the femme? Which do you like more? It doesn't matter!

So, yes, I believe URM4all puts it nicely:

The majority's lack of exposure to the minority's existence and experiences will only further our (LGBT and underrepresented minorities) marginalization.

Sexuality is fun, complex, and important. I feel it's imperative to be reflective of our own sexuality for our patients' sake. They will look to us for answers and perhaps disclose to us the one thing that they will not disclose to anyone else. It's important we be comfortable in our own shoes, lest we erode patient trust.

 

[URM4all]

I can understand your concern for society's need to label things.

I believe it fulfills some peoples need to have an answer for things they do not understand, even though that answer may not be true.

In terms of minority communities/groups, the majority can listen, appreciate, and empathize with the plights of minority groups. But this is different than 'understanding' and 'knowing how it feels,' which is more difficult to achieve without being a member of such groups.

DoctorNB, when people ask you if you're a butch or femme, they are only projecting their own ideas of what a lesbian is. It says more about them than about you. What is most important is what you think of yourself.

My experiences as a med student, intern and now post-doc fellow helped me learn these lessons.

 

[DoctorNB]

I can understand your concern for society's need to label things.

I believe it fulfills some peoples need to have an answer for things they do not understand, even though that answer may not be true.

In terms of minority communities/groups, the majority can listen, appreciate, and empathize with the plights of minority groups. But this is different than 'understanding' and 'knowing how it feels,' which is more difficult to achieve without being a member of such groups.

DoctorNB, when people ask you if you're a butch or femme, they are only projecting their own ideas of what a lesbian is. It says more about them than about you. What is most important is what you think of yourself.

My experiences as a med student, intern and now post-doc fellow helped me learn these lessons.

Well said. Sounds like you have had a great experience thus far. Very encouraging.

 

[aaj117]

I can understand your concern for society's need to label things.

I believe it fulfills some peoples need to have an answer for things they do not understand, even though that answer may not be true.

In terms of minority communities/groups, the majority can listen, appreciate, and empathize with the plights of minority groups. But this is different than 'understanding' and 'knowing how it feels,' which is more difficult to achieve without being a member of such groups.

DoctorNB, when people ask you if you're a butch or femme, they are only projecting their own ideas of what a lesbian is. It says more about them than about you. What is most important is what you think of yourself.

My experiences as a med student, intern and now post-doc fellow helped me learn these lessons.

I loved this post, just wanted to let you know. It makes me really sad to have experienced so much homophobia from minority populations; this honestly scares me in considering the HBCUs for medical school. While i was most comfortable there because of the racial and ethnic diversity, I try to keep in mind that the black community is often one of the most homophobic. i never understood this because i always just assumed, in the nieve part of my consciousness, that all minority groups struggling for an equal footing in this country would benefit from working together. unfortunately it's quite rare to find someone like yourself who is actually willing to lump the two together and understand the other group through your own experiences.

 

[aaj117]

Also, for anyone interested, it may make you very happy to hear that Cornell has added gender identity to their non-discrimination clause. Very few medical schools have this included, Brown was the first and only for a long time.

 

[33Tchica]

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[33Tchica]

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[wanabdoc]

Is my bisexuality something that I should keep quiet about in my endeavors to make it into Medical School? Regardless, I don't intend to make a big deal of my orientation. However, I'm willing to make the sacrifice of silence if being open would negatively affect my my standing.

Isn't your sexual orientation on the list of things that are illegal to ask in an interview (federal law?) I am pretty sure it is for a job, but I don't know about medical school

 

[LoneCoyote]

Isn't your sexual orientation on the list of things that are illegal to ask in an interview (federal law?) I am pretty sure it is for a job, but I don't know about medical school

Yes, in theory it is illegal, but it may come up anyway. If you are out on your application in some way, it likely will come up. Or it could come up in another more indirect way via other "illegal" questioning, ie are you married? What does your husband/wife do?

I have not been on SDN in a long time, but am enjoying reading a GLBT thread that has not degenerated into ridiculous battles. I've been out during medical school and am currently applying for residency, and I can tell you that all of the same questions you face when applying to medical school will come up for you again when you are looking at residencies.

Luckily, my experiences in medical school have been mostly positive, but there have been moments of dealing with homophobia that have been unpleasant. But then there have been classmates who have told me I am the first gay person they have ever interacted with and that they have learned so much just by talking, and that definitely makes up for the bad time. No matter how "open" the school is, you will most likely have faculty/classmates who are uncomfortable or even openly homophobic. If you can pick a school that does have an open administration that is responsive to these issues, it will make your experiences a lot better if a problem does arise.

Good luck with applications to those of you applying now, and if you have any questions or just want an ear to talk about this stuff, feel free to PM me.