honest thoughts on DO "challenges"

[futuredoc2016]

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I have been accepted to a wonderful DO school. I like the atmosphere, students, philosophy, location, etc. I would probably be one of those who wouldn't utilize OMM, to be honest.

I am waitlisted at an MD school that I am less familiar with (working on that now). I can't help but hear in the back of my head the arguments of DO v MD and potential challenges when applying to residencies. If I am presented with the choice, would going MD outweigh all of the positives mentioned above?

Just looking for honest opinions please, not thoughts on my hesitations to go DO. Thank you! 😀

 

[Iliketoytles]

I have been accepted to a wonderful DO school. I like the atmosphere, students, philosophy, location, etc. I would probably be one of those who wouldn't utilize OMM, to be honest.

I am waitlisted at an MD school that I am less familiar with (working on that now). I can't help but hear in the back of my head the arguments of DO v MD and potential challenges when applying to residencies. If I am presented with the choice, would going MD outweigh all of the positives mentioned above?

Just looking for honest opinions please, not thoughts on my hesitations to go DO. Thank you! 😀

Depends on what you want to go into. If you're looking into a competitive specialty, and you end up getting the MD acceptance... then you should go with that school. The atmosphere, philosophy, and friendliness among students is only going to last 2-3 years... so while these are very, very important... I think I would take the unfamiliar MD acceptance than a comfortable DO acceptance.

Besides... it's not like the MD school doesn't have those same qualities, right? Not being familiar with a school doesn't mean it isn't good. So ya, I'd hold out for the MD acceptance and if it does happen, you should take it. Just my opinion.

 

[SeminoleVesicle]

I have been accepted to a wonderful DO school. I like the atmosphere, students, philosophy, location, etc. I would probably be one of those who wouldn't utilize OMM, to be honest.

I am waitlisted at an MD school that I am less familiar with (working on that now). I can't help but hear in the back of my head the arguments of DO v MD and potential challenges when applying to residencies. If I am presented with the choice, would going MD outweigh all of the positives mentioned above?

Just looking for honest opinions please, not thoughts on my hesitations to go DO. Thank you! 😀

You're right there are challenges. As an OMS-0, I accept that. However, any MD school is no walk in the park either. If you put in the time and effort and set your goals high, you make it to nearly any residency you want no matter if you're or DO or MD.

 

[scotchtapetest]

I have been accepted to a wonderful DO school. I like the atmosphere, students, philosophy, location, etc. I would probably be one of those who wouldn't utilize OMM, to be honest.

I am waitlisted at an MD school that I am less familiar with (working on that now). I can't help but hear in the back of my head the arguments of DO v MD and potential challenges when applying to residencies. If I am presented with the choice, would going MD outweigh all of the positives mentioned above?

Just looking for honest opinions please, not thoughts on my hesitations to go DO. Thank you! 😀

Depends on the MD school and the DO school! Unlike what you hear on SDN, not all MD schools are created equal.

To make it simple with regards to opportunities: If you are accepted to a top 30-50 MD school, then you will have more opportunities. Otherwise a more established DO school will provide you with the same opportunities (if not more) as any run of the mill MD school! (I know this might be big news on SDN)! For instance, my DO school certainly provided me with advantages/opportunities over my state MD school (very average school) that I would've never dreamed about if I'd gone there.

But having said all of that, it sounds like you prefer the MD school; So please go there and let people who really want to be DOs take your spot!

 

[FrkyBgStok]

I was hoping for another one of these threads. I am sorry, but we can't decide what is more important to you.

 

[futuredoc2016]

I was hoping for another one of these threads. I am sorry, but we can't decide what is more important to you.

Wasn't looking for someone to make the decision for me, sorry if it came across that way. I'm simply looking for neutral opinions on differences between DO v MD when applying to residencies, so that I CAN make the decision myself. Thanks.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

To oversimplify, there are more MD residencies. If you are interested in anything competitive, number can be valuable. Everything else is personal preference.

 

[DrBowtie]

Depends on the MD school and the DO school! Unlike what you hear on SDN, not all MD schools are created equal.

To make it simple with regards to opportunities: If you are accepted to a top 30-50 MD school, then you will have more opportunities. Otherwise a more established DO school will provide you with the same opportunities (if not more) as any run of the mill MD school! (I know this might be big news on SDN)! For instance, my DO school certainly provided me with advantages/opportunities over my state MD school (very average school) that I would've never dreamed about if I'd gone there.

But having said all of that, it sounds like you prefer the MD school; So please go there and let people who really want to be DOs take your spot!

Pretty sure having Alpha Omega Alpha (AOA) at your states MD school is a better opportunity to help match than anything your DO school has to offer.

 

[Iliketoytles]

 

[scotchtapetest]

Pretty sure having Alpha Omega Alpha (AOA) at your states MD school is a better opportunity to help match than anything your DO school has to offer.

You are entitled to your opinion! I obviously disagree!

 

[DrBowtie]

You are entitled to your opinion! I obviously disagree!

Are you a fourth year? If so, what are you applying for?

 

[LesBois88]

Thats why osteopathic schools have SSP. It's the same check box on ERAS.

 

[poopyhead]

For instance, my DO school certainly provided me with advantages/opportunities over my state MD school (very average school) that I would've never dreamed about if I'd gone there.

um..how about in terms of tuition? or NIH funding for research (DO/PhD)?

 

[DrBowtie]

Thats why osteopathic schools have SSP. It's the same check box on ERAS.

A) Wouldn't know. Wasn't an option on my ERAS.
B) No stats in the NRMP match data on that, not sure its equivalent.

 

[scotchtapetest]

Are you a fourth year? If so, what are you applying for?

Yes; IM.

um..how about in terms of tuition? or NIH funding for research (DO/PhD)?

Tuition is no longer that big of an issue given the IBR/PSLF option.

In research funding DOs lag behind but again DEPNDS on the school. NOT all MD schools have large NIH funding; AND If the OP had asked DO/PhD vs MD/PhD, I would've said MD/PhD; but that's not the question.

A) Wouldn't know. Wasn't an option on my ERAS.
B) No stats in the NRMP match data on that, not sure its equivalent.

A) Just because you don't have it on YOUR ERAS doesn't mean we don't either. DOs have different ERAS options than MDs.
B) Can't help you there!

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Depends on the MD school and the DO school! Unlike what you hear on SDN, not all MD schools are created equal.

To make it simple with regards to opportunities: If you are accepted to a top 30-50 MD school, then you will have more opportunities. Otherwise a more established DO school will provide you with the same opportunities (if not more) as any run of the mill MD school! (I know this might be big news on SDN)! For instance, my DO school certainly provided me with advantages/opportunities over my state MD school (very average school) that I would've never dreamed about if I'd gone there.

But having said all of that, it sounds like you prefer the MD school; So please go there and let people who really want to be DOs take your spot!

Plenty of students have attested that even the low tier schools have significantly better match lists and easily place students into their first choice competitive residencies. It's agreeable that not all MD schools are created equal, but in terms of that it's pretty much Top 10% > Bottom 90%.And even then even with an MD from a low tier medical school as long as you have a decent USMLE score you'll have significantly greater chances matching into competitive specialties.
Look at a low tier school like RFU in Chicago, it's match list has likely more matches into majorly competitive specialties than all DO schools combined.

Again, you're probably going to call me out as a anti-DO guy and a dismiss my statements, and that's fine. But the reality is that this is what almost every MD & DO student says in regards to analyzing the successes of students.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Bala, didn't you say you were a first year on another thread? Did time speed up?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

My favorite Yugioh monster Augomon. <3

 

[scotchtapetest]

Bala, didn't you say you were a first year on another thread? Did time speed up?

No, I was "accused" of being a first year by you and another person and I didn't bother to respond.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

No, I was accused of being a first year by you and another person and I didn't bother to respond.

I did not accuse you of anything. However your lack of a response was curious, especially since it was a DO resident calling you out for being silly.

 

[Iliketoytles]

Did ya'll know this?

 

[scotchtapetest]

Plenty of students have attested that even the low tier schools have significantly better match lists and easily place students into their first choice competitive residencies. It's agreeable that not all MD schools are created equal, but in terms of that it's pretty much Top 10% > Bottom 90%.And even then even with an MD from a low tier medical school as long as you have a decent USMLE score you'll have significantly greater chances matching into competitive specialties.
Look at a low tier school like RFU in Chicago, it's match list has likely more matches into majorly competitive specialties than all DO schools combined.

Again, you're probably going to call me out as a anti-DO guy and a dismiss my statements, and that's fine. But the reality is that this is what almost every MD & DO student says in regards to analyzing the successes of students.

No I'm not gonna call you anything. You are also entitled to your opinion. However, FYI, RFU is not a low tier school and your statement about their match list is totally baseless. Furthermore, you are forgetting about AOA spots. Lastly it is a lot easier to blame it on your school/degree when you don't succeed than it is to blame yourself.

 

[scotchtapetest]

I did not accuse you of anything. However your lack of a response was curious, especially since it was a DO resident calling you out for being silly.

OMG a DO resident said something and I totally ignored him because his post was totally BS 😱😱😱

Also, if you go back, you'll see a post by you telling me about all the things I was going to learn as a future third year!😉

 

[mishaS]

I'm guessing this would depend on the residency and it's director, but the ophthalmology residents I've spoken gave us a few pieces of info:

1. there is almost no chance for an MD student at a non top tier school to get into a top tier residency program for an already competitive residency (the example give was U of M oph which barely accepts students from non top-10 programs, and barely accepts their own)

2. School name isn't so much an issue for competitive residencies that aren't in the top tier - every other oph residency in Michigan.

3. The residency programs do have a preference for MD students, however they will take DO students.

The point is that while it is hardly impossible for DO students to get into competitive ACGME residencies, it is still somewhat of an uphill battle.

 

[futuredoc2016]

Thanks to those of you sharing neutral thoughts on the situation. I'm leaning towards EM at this point, and it seems DO v MD is less of a deal than it would be if I were interested in say, Neuro or Surg.

Excited to be a future doctor either way, so I shouldn't be complaining about my situation, but that doesn't make the decision any easier.

Thanks again!

 

[THH]

Thanks to those of you sharing neutral thoughts on the situation. I'm leaning towards EM at this point, and it seems DO v MD is less of a deal than it would be if I were interested in say, Neuro or Surg.

Excited to be a future doctor either way, so I shouldn't be complaining about my situation, but that doesn't make the decision any easier.

Thanks again!

OP, I think the match lists have carried out that even a low ranked MD will be a better opportunity if you are looking purely at a school's ability to place you into a competitive MD residency. Even though you are leaning towards EM, that is a field that is becoming increasing competitive and you always want to keep your options open. In my personal opinion, unless there are other mitigating factors involved, take the MD acceptance if you have the chance.

Good luck with your decision!

 

[mishaS]

Thanks to those of you sharing neutral thoughts on the situation. I'm leaning towards EM at this point, and it seems DO v MD is less of a deal than it would be if I were interested in say, Neuro or Surg.

Excited to be a future doctor either way, so I shouldn't be complaining about my situation, but that doesn't make the decision any easier.

Thanks again!

I doubt you would have too much trouble getting into an EM residency, but from what I've heard (from here) is that an MD degree will still get preference in general which will make it easier to get into specific ACGME EM residencies. This honestly would only be important for location flexibility, so if you have AOA residencies where you'd like to do your residency it's a non-issue and even if not, I'm sure you'd still be fine unless your scores so long as you do ok on the USMLE and in your clinicals.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

OP- also remember that even as a DO, ACGME EM is generally very DO friendly.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Depends on the MD school and the DO school! Unlike what you hear on SDN, not all MD schools are created equal.

To make it simple with regards to opportunities: If you are accepted to a top 30-50 MD school, then you will have more opportunities. Otherwise a more established DO school will provide you with the same opportunities (if not more) as any run of the mill MD school! (I know this might be big news on SDN)! For instance, my DO school certainly provided me with advantages/opportunities over my state MD school (very average school) that I would've never dreamed about if I'd gone there.

But having said all of that, it sounds like you prefer the MD school; So please go there and let people who really want to be DOs take your spot!

While I agree that not all MD schools are created equal, your opportunities from pretty much any MD school will be better than pretty much any DO school. You should realize this since you are applying to IM, bala. For instance, look at IM at Hopkins, penn, MGH, The Brigham, UCSF, Duke, Columbia, and a whole host of other programs. No DO residents in medicine. Hell, Penn even has PCOM right down the street (and PCOM is considered one of the best DO schools) yet there are no PCOM or DO IM residents at Penn.

I went to a non-top 60 school and in my class alone we had a handfull of matches to Hopkins, matches to penn, multiple to Duke and UNC, MGH (urology even), Pitt, Michigan, Cornell, Columbia, UCLA, Emory, UVA, Stanford and the list goes on to the mediocre matches which most DO schools would consider to be excellent matches.

The major difference (and most impt thing), though is in the middle of the class. DO schools send their average students to medicre community programs while MD schools send their mediocre graduates to strong university programs. Very few are actually going to be at the top of their class, let's be honest. What a run of the mill MD school can do for the middle-of-the-road med students is much larger than what almost any DO school can do. This is not to insult the top DO schools but to highlight the reality- with the rare exception, MD schools are going to offer you more opportunites.

 

[GraceEuphoria]

Hmm, maybe I'm wrong, but I think even if the OP was looking at surgery or neuro, being in a DO program would not be a disadvantage. I hear that if you're in a DO school, choose an AOA residency, but I always thought it was just because there are a lot of positions available. Neuro, as far as I know is very DO friendly as well? EM definitely is, so you would not face an issue there....you'd have a good shot an ACGME residency as well.

 

[DoctorLacrosse]

Did ya'll know this?

WOW, years of my childhood loving Pokemon and never knew this. always thought it was because he squirted water haha 🙁

 

[futuredoc2016]

Hmm, maybe I'm wrong, but I think even if the OP was looking at surgery or neuro, being in a DO program would not be a disadvantage. I hear that if you're in a DO school, choose an AOA residency, but I always thought it was just because there are a lot of positions available. Neuro, as far as I know is very DO friendly as well? EM definitely is, so you would not face an issue there....you'd have a good shot an ACGME residency as well.

Thanks for the boost of confidence regarding EM being DO friendly. I am confident in my abilities once I get to med school no matter where I end up, I just want to avoid my absolute best not being good enough for what I want to do. Everyone's wisdom here has convinced me that won't be the case.

As far as the opinion of "any MD is better than the best DO," I will have to say I used to think the same. However in doing my research and discussing the situation with the doctors I work with, I have realized this just isn't the case (especially at the school I may have the honor of attending).

Thanks to everyone again, I appreciate honest answers. 🙂

 

[futuredoc2016]

OP- also remember that even as a DO, ACGME EM is generally very DO friendly.

Just the type of insider info I need, thank you! I haven't been immersed in the field long enough to know these things haha

 

[2012Aggie]

futuredoc, I noticed your location says Texas. If the MD school you are considering is in Texas, I would highly suggest you look at the difference in tuition.

 

[Mbeas]

Currently, there are five "DO vs MD" threads on the front page 👍🙄

 

[jinobi]

Basically, going US MD will give you more opportunities and a path of least resistance than going US DO for the majority of ACGME programs. You have AOA programs, but OGME is dragging its hiney in establishing enough residencies to support the burgeoning number of new DO schools.

Thing is, the above only applies if you get off that MD waitlist. If you don't (which is a good possibility), then congrats on the DO acceptance - better to be a doctor than to be none at all. You'll likely to work harder to prove yourself compared to a MD student for most ACGME programs, but the end point once you're an attending is the same.

 

[futuredoc2016]

futuredoc, I noticed your location says Texas. If the MD school you are considering is in Texas, I would highly suggest you look at the difference in tuition.

Tuition is virtually the same as both are state schools. I can see how that's an argument for some schools though!

 

[THH]

Tuition is virtually the same as both are state schools. I can see how that's an argument for some schools though!

I'm guessing this is TCOM vs a Texas MD then? If you do end up going to TCOM, it's a great school and has a great reputation in Texas. 👍

 

[futuredoc2016]

I'm guessing this is TCOM vs a Texas MD then? If you do end up going to TCOM, it's a great school and has a great reputation in Texas. 👍

Nice detective work 🙂

 

[DrWily]

TCOM is a great school, but please consider the fact that you are thinking EM right now, but who's to say that you won't change your mind?

I would highly suggest going the MD route if you are able. It'll make your life more convenient. Not easier, but more convenient.

 

[poopyhead]

I'm guessing this is TCOM vs a Texas MD then? If you do end up going to TCOM, it's a great school and has a great reputation in Texas. 👍

weird...since TCOM doesn't utilize grade replacement, wouldn't a competitive GPA for TCOM also be competitive for the TX MD schools as well?

 

[The Virginian]

Why not just go to the primary source of information on the programs…

For AMA, go to NRMP Data and Reports
http://www.nrmp.org/data/index.html

For AOA, go to AOA Intern/Resident Registration Program
http://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/


Results of the 2010 NRMP Program Director Survey
http://www.nrmp.org/data/programresultsbyspecialty2010v3.pdf

2011 NRMP Main Residency Match: Match Rates by Specialty and State
http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsbystate2011.pdf

Charting Outcomes in the Match
Characteristics of Applicants Who Matched to Their Preferred
Specialty in the 2011 Main Residency Match 4th Edition
http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2011.pdf

Results and Data - 2011 Main Residency Match
http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2011.pdf

NRMP Program Results 2007-2011 Main Residency Match
http://www.nrmp.org/data/programsresults2007-2011.pdf

2011 NRMP Main Residency Match: Match Rates by Specialty and State
http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsbystate2011.pdf

Results and Data Specialties Matching Service 2011 Appointment Year
February 2011
http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddatasms2011.pdf

 

[GraceEuphoria]

Thanks for the boost of confidence regarding EM being DO friendly. I am confident in my abilities once I get to med school no matter where I end up, I just want to avoid my absolute best not being good enough for what I want to do. Everyone's wisdom here has convinced me that won't be the case.

As far as the opinion of "any MD is better than the best DO," I will have to say I used to think the same. However in doing my research and discussing the situation with the doctors I work with, I have realized this just isn't the case (especially at the school I may have the honor of attending).

Thanks to everyone again, I appreciate honest answers. 🙂

No problem.

In re-reading my post though I realized I didn't clearly state something (not that it would directly influence you if you think you want to pursue EM). I meant to say that if you're at a DO school and are interested in SURG, I've heard AOA residencies are the way to go. Oops 🙂

 

[donkeykong1]

To back up my man bala's points, I'm heading to a DO school that has more in house residency slots than a few of my state MD schools.

 

[MIAYO]

Did ya'll know this?

You just blew my mind!

 

[Iliketoytles]

You just blew my mind!

I know, right. I like your avatar btw. 😎

 

[futuredoc2016]

Why not just go to the primary source of information on the programs…

For AMA, go to NRMP Data and Reports
http://www.nrmp.org/data/index.html

For AOA, go to AOA Intern/Resident Registration Program
http://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/


Results of the 2010 NRMP Program Director Survey
http://www.nrmp.org/data/programresultsbyspecialty2010v3.pdf

2011 NRMP Main Residency Match: Match Rates by Specialty and State
http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsbystate2011.pdf

Charting Outcomes in the Match
Characteristics of Applicants Who Matched to Their Preferred
Specialty in the 2011 Main Residency Match 4th Edition
http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2011.pdf

Results and Data - 2011 Main Residency Match
http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2011.pdf

NRMP Program Results 2007-2011 Main Residency Match
http://www.nrmp.org/data/programsresults2007-2011.pdf

2011 NRMP Main Residency Match: Match Rates by Specialty and State
http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsbystate2011.pdf

Results and Data Specialties Matching Service 2011 Appointment Year
February 2011
http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddatasms2011.pdf

Thank you!

 

[ilubse7en]

sorry to hijack the thread, but what if MD school is 1. far (very far) from home, with high tuition vs. DO school that is in your community.
i mean the debt i will come out after residency could be $100,000 difference, would it still be worth it?

 

[Iliketoytles]

sorry to hijack the thread, but what if MD school is 1. far (very far) from home, with high tuition vs. DO school that is in your community.
i mean the debt i will come out after residency could be $100,000 difference, would it still be worth it?

Depends on what you want to go into... if it's something very DO friendly like family practice/IM, go DO. If it's a very competitive specialty, you may want to consider the MD school, simply because you'll have more programs to match into more easily (DOs can match in them too, but as you'll read about a lot on SDN, it's more of an uphill battle).

Perhaps someone else can give their opinion on this as well.

 

[poopyhead]

sorry to hijack the thread, but what if MD school is 1. far (very far) from home, with high tuition vs. DO school that is in your community.
i mean the debt i will come out after residency could be $100,000 difference, would it still be worth it?

Which DO school are you referring to? Most are private with high tuition as well.