honest thoughts on DO "challenges"

[ManBroDude]

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From Wikipedia: The two-digit score is given along with the three-digit score. It does not represent a percentile.[6] The minimum passing score on the two-digit scale is 75.[7] The highest score is a 99, although this is based on a review of publicly available scores and not an official statement. Starting 2012, NRMP will only consider 3-digit scores for reporting to the residency programs.

I thought everyone knew it was not a percentile. At least next year we won't have to worry about it.

 

[jgar26]

Thanks for the boost of confidence regarding EM being DO friendly. I am confident in my abilities once I get to med school no matter where I end up, I just want to avoid my absolute best not being good enough for what I want to do. Everyone's wisdom here has convinced me that won't be the case.

As far as the opinion of "any MD is better than the best DO," I will have to say I used to think the same. However in doing my research and discussing the situation with the doctors I work with, I have realized this just isn't the case (especially at the school I may have the honor of attending).

Thanks to everyone again, I appreciate honest answers. 🙂

Play the averages. Go to any major University hospital program website and look at the resident profiles. Even excluding top academic pedigree hungry programs, middle of the road academic ED programs will fill with majority of US MD grads. I'm sorry, but sometimes perception is reality. Program Directors and applicants rank their perceived "competitiveness" of program based on the number of US matched MD seniors. It may not be fair but it is reality. With funding cuts and graduate medical education residencies relatively stable, the number of increased US seniors (new MD schools, etc) the competition for a good spot will only increase.

I'm an invasive cardiologist and partner in a large cardiology group and technically a US IMG grad. That route for me was difficult and not an option I would recommend now to
many people. I had to work twice as hard to get 50% as much respect as a similar US MD grad. Eventually it worked out and in the end, dedication and hard work won out, however it would have been easier having come from a US MD school. It's not a secret that pecking order for residencies goes

1. US MD's
2. DO's
3. IMG (foreign born) vs USIMG

When I have premeds ask me these questions, I give the following advice. Go to the school where you can graduate with the least amount of debt. Go to the school with the most established university hospital and clinic based rotations. There are many DO schools who have students doing a "cardiology rotation" with a single private practice practioner. That is simply woefully unacceptable.

Again, I agree that many (most) DO schools will get you where you want to go, but if you can garner a US MD acceptance, take it and don't look back. A lot of the basic sciences are pure hour based studying in a library that any school will give you. The real issue then comes with quality of clinical clerkships. It is not even a debatable fact that US allopathic schools have far greater infrastructure and hospital support for clinical rotations.

I hear the fact that one may only want to be a ED doc or family doc and that DO degree will be just fine. But many things change and you will invariably change your mind. I chose a Caribbean school over a DO school ( bad move) because I didn't want DO stigma and just wanted to be a family doc. Well things changed and I wanted to be a cardiologist. Things were much harder for me asa result of that choice. I would have been much better off going to a DO school. Just some food for thought. Not at all trying to stir a debate at all. As an attendng cardiologist, I can tell you that a lot of the isses premeds worry about, DO vs MD vs cariibb cpvs top program etc really don't mean crap in "real life". We are all busy trying to take care of sick patients and keep our office pay roll and not get sued and still be a good family man. The stuff on here is humorous to me. It will be to you when you are 10 years out.

 

[lacrosse87]

Play the averages. Go to any major University hospital program website and look at the resident profiles. Even excluding top academic pedigree hungry programs, middle of the road academic ED programs will fill with majority of US MD grads. I'm sorry, but sometimes perception is reality. Program Directors and applicants rank their perceived "competitiveness" of program based on the number of US matched MD seniors. It may not be fair but it is reality. With funding cuts and graduate medical education residencies relatively stable, the number of increased US seniors (new MD schools, etc) the competition for a good spot will only increase.

I'm an invasive cardiologist and partner in a large cardiology group and technically a US IMG grad. That route for me was difficult and not an option I would recommend now to
many people. I had to work twice as hard to get 50% as much respect as a similar US MD grad. Eventually it worked out and in the end, dedication and hard work won out, however it would have been easier having come from a US MD school. It's not a secret that pecking order for residencies goes

1. US MD's
2. DO's
3. IMG (foreign born) vs USIMG

When I have premeds ask me these questions, I give the following advice. Go to the school where you can graduate with the least amount of debt. Go to the school with the most established university hospital and clinic based rotations. There are many DO schools who have students doing a "cardiology rotation" with a single private practice practioner. That is simply woefully unacceptable.

Again, I agree that many (most) DO schools will get you where you want to go, but if you can garner a US MD acceptance, take it and don't look back. A lot of the basic sciences are pure hour based studying in a library that any school will give you. The real issue then comes with quality of clinical clerkships. It is not even a debatable fact that US allopathic schools have far greater infrastructure and hospital support for clinical rotations.

I hear the fact that one may only want to be a ED doc or family doc and that DO degree will be just fine. But many things change and you will invariably change your mind. I chose a Caribbean school over a DO school ( bad move) because I didn't want DO stigma and just wanted to be a family doc. Well things changed and I wanted to be a cardiologist. Things were much harder for me asa result of that choice. I would have been much better off going to a DO school. Just some food for thought. Not at all trying to stir a debate at all. As an attendng cardiologist, I can tell you that a lot of the isses premeds worry about, DO vs MD vs cariibb cpvs top program etc really don't mean crap in "real life". We are all busy trying to take care of sick patients and keep our office pay roll and not get sued and still be a good family man. The stuff on here is humorous to me. It will be to you when you are 10 years out.

Glad to see you got to where ya wanted to be (albeit, with having to work harder). Quick off topic question: when did you reallllly learn to interpret ECG's well? During med school, IM residency (are you expected to be able to read these well as an IM resident), or during your cards fellowship? I currently don't have an interest in Cardiology, but I've always considered ECG's to be pretty tricky to read

 

[poopyhead]

When I have premeds ask me these questions, I give the following advice. Go to the school where you can graduate with the least amount of debt. Go to the school with the most established university hospital and clinic based rotations. There are many DO schools who have students doing a "cardiology rotation" with a single private practice practioner. That is simply woefully unacceptable.

Again, I agree that many (most) DO schools will get you where you want to go, but if you can garner a US MD acceptance, take it and don't look back. A lot of the basic sciences are pure hour based studying in a library that any school will give you. The real issue then comes with quality of clinical clerkships. It is not even a debatable fact that US allopathic schools have far greater infrastructure and hospital support for clinical rotations.

Seems like what most attendings say.

 

[jgar26]

Glad to see you got to where ya wanted to be (albeit, with having to work harder). Quick off topic question: when did you reallllly learn to interpret ECG's well? During med school, IM residency (are you expected to be able to read these well as an IM resident), or during your cards fellowship? I currently don't have an interest in Cardiology, but I've always considered ECG's to be pretty tricky to read

PM me if you'd like more specific info.

A great book to get is an ECG book by Brendan Phibbs, MD called advanced EKG boards and beyond.

Another great book is by James O'Keefe, MD entitled the complete guide to ecg's.

The above are good books for learning the nuances of ECG reading.

For a beginner I would recommend "12 lead ECG: The art of interpretation" by Tomas Garcia, MD.

The real way to become an expert is simple. Practice practice practice. It becomes pattern recognition after many years. I can read 400 ekg's at a sitting with a very high degree of accuracy. But that only comes with a lot of practice. There are so many great books and tools available that anyone can become an expert in ECG interpretation.


Didn't mean to hijack thread. PM me with other questions.

Good luck

 

[jgar26]

Glad to see you got to where ya wanted to be (albeit, with having to work harder). Quick off topic question: when did you reallllly learn to interpret ECG's well? During med school, IM residency (are you expected to be able to read these well as an IM resident), or during your cards fellowship? I currently don't have an interest in Cardiology, but I've always considered ECG's to be pretty tricky to read

I guess I didn't read answer your question. You are expected to be able to read basic ecg's as an IM resident. But even then, there is a wide disparity of ability. The residents who want cards are invariably better. You can pass the IM boards without being very proficient at ECG reading. You can NOT pass cardio boards without mastery of ecg's. There are different sections on the cardio boards and even if you get every board question correct but fail the ECG coding section you fail. Again. Sorry for thread jack.

 

[corpsman33]

Glad to see you got to where ya wanted to be (albeit, with having to work harder). Quick off topic question: when did you reallllly learn to interpret ECG's well? During med school, IM residency (are you expected to be able to read these well as an IM resident), or during your cards fellowship? I currently don't have an interest in Cardiology, but I've always considered ECG's to be pretty tricky to read

I was a tele tech for 4 years and am now an ACLS instructor. EKG's aren't that difficult to learn. But as JGAR said they are difficult to master (especially learning the difference between the 12 leads, and what area of the heart they are specifically referring too).