Hopkins v Yale v Harvard

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tough decision

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Hello everybody! I'm new to the SDN scene, but was hoping for some help as I dont see any forum similar to this from anytime recent. I'm sure there is an annual debate about this but i couldnt find it being new to the layout. i have been truly blessed during this application process and honestly still in shock... but currently am holding acceptances at Hopkins, Harvard, Yale, and my state school with $$. also still waiting to hear from Penn. what an incredible place to be in, but i really really really need advice about what to do. I am unable to attend any revisit weekends (distraught about that) so I need help! Opinions from current medical students especially welcome, or from those making choices between these schools as well (congrats to you all if you are!).

not only do i not know which school to choose, but i dont even know how to begin comparing them with only the one stressed out day I spent at each school interviewing as a basis for my decision.

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In my opinion, I would choose the cheapest school you can go too. Debt is a pain and patients will never ask you about which school you went too.

However if you are trying to choose between Hopkins, Yale, or Harvard, I would choose Harvard merely for the fact that the Harvard name is known more than any other school in the nation. I mean....if you want prestige, you can't get better than Harvard.
 
Go to the state school. You'll be glad you have less debt when you are working 80+ hours a week in residency. If not there then JHU, but that is just a personal preference.
 
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thank you for your advice... just for future posters, though, can you post WHY you would choose whichever school? i have so many people who know nothing about medicine telling me what to do that it would be great to hear the whys from fellow pre-med/med.

and to the above, money is a big issue obviously. i guess we're all waiting for the aid packets to come in.

iTOOL: once i decide I will of course withdraw asap! so help me do that (smiley that i cant figure out how to insert)
 
I would choose the cheapest school, as well. The education you get at every school is going to be about the same, and you'll have plenty of research opportunities wherever you go.
 
thank you for your advice... just for future posters, though, can you post WHY you would choose whichever school? i have so many people who know nothing about medicine telling me what to do that it would be great to hear the whys from fellow pre-med/med.

and to the above, money is a big issue obviously. i guess we're all waiting for the aid packets to come in.

iTOOL: once i decide I will of course withdraw asap! so help me do that (smiley that i cant figure out how to insert)

The answer I have heard 100000000000000000 times from every medical student/resident/attending on this forum is the cheapest school is the best. As was stated; you're getting the same education so unless you really want to introduce every patient you meet with
"Hello, I'm Dr. TouchDecision from John Hopkins Medical School. Heard of it?"
 
common, how many of u would actually go to the cheapest over yale harvard and JHU... stop giving the guy advice u would never follow.

i have no idea why everyone on SDN jumps at the opportunity to tell stellar applicants to go to state schools, does it make everyone feel better touting the idea that all med schools are equal therefore choose the cheapest?? all med schools are not equal, besides for opportunities in research available, going to harvard u get taught by harvard professors and learn along harvard classmates which (although i never having the privilege of such an environment) im sure would be an amazing experience and a great base for a medical career.

ignore the fact that i used harvard as an example, was just too lazy to write all three.

sorry OP im not fortunate enough to know anything about these amazing schools but dont let this forum of jealousy convince u to go to ur state school. spend the money and get the best possible medical education america has to offer.
gl in wtvr u choose and dam u for being so fortunate 👍
 
All three of those schools are great, but honestly the competition and everything is more or less going to be the same at those schools.

Harvard is the best school in the world for a reason, and since the difficulty and caliber of students at those schools are going to be the same, I'd much rather go to the best school in the world rather than the other two, one of which (Hopkins) regular people have never even heard of.
 
What is your state school? If you don't mind, what are your stats?
 
i'd say go harv or jhu over yale/state school. sure your patients might not know, but your colleagues/potential collaborators/etc will. when you meet another doctor at a conference, chances are one of the ice breaking questions is where did you train for medical school. i doubt the amount of scholarship/how much it cost you would be discussed.

you worked your butt off to get these top acceptances - so go for it. the name will stick with you forever, unlike your undergrad.

but again that's just my two cents.
 
thanks, man. for the congrats and the advice.

since i dont want this thread to turn into a big argument, could people respond to the same dilemma (hopkins,harvard,yale... without the state school) but with the added condition of "$$ being equal"?

and the other thing I dont want this to turn into is a name-brand war. while yes, i may seem like a rankings junkie from the schools i applied to, I feel like any of those three names will put me in a great place for residency. Right? Does #1 v #2 make that much of a difference? I'm tempted to say no.

so any thoughts on the schools themselves? anyone already made a choice between any of these and want to share why?

as for the questions, im trying to stay relatively anonymous but state school is east coast. as for stats, not stellar MCAT 31 but good gpa 3.9ish BCPM 3.9 as well.
 
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The answer I have heard 100000000000000000 times from every medical student/resident/attending on this forum is the cheapest school is the best. As was stated; you're getting the same education so unless you really want to introduce every patient you meet with
"Hello, I'm Dr. TouchDecision from John Hopkins Medical School. Heard of it?"
'Johns' 😉
 
Good thing all the educations at every med school are more or less equivalent then, right?

Thats right, thats why I deleted that part of my post right after I wrote it.
 
since i dont want this thread to turn into a big argument, could people respond to the same dilemma (hopkins,harvard,yale... without the state school) but with the added condition of "$$ being equal"?
All right, this is going to be horribly uninformed, but bear with me. I understand that Harvard is PBL. Eff that. Yale apparently has some kind of unique curriculum that works really well for self-directed people. I don't know anything about Hopkins.
 
think about location.

i wasn't fortunate enough to have your problem, but i personally choose hopkins.

here's why: the school is very devoted to the local community and has incredible research and public health opportunities (not that hte others don't). and, based on the impression i got from my interview, all of the students there are very humble and down to earth but absolutely amazing. and they still love to have a good time. also, hopkins is very innovative with its curriculum. apparently there was a report released (about 100ish years ago?) stating that all of the med schools in the country were using the wrong approach to teach medicine...all except one, that is. and that school was hopkins. and they completely changed the curriculum again for the 09 incoming class...and it seems so exciting! also, baltimore may not be the greatest place to live (esp in terms of safety), but weatherwise, i'd say it's better than either boston or new haven. also, because of the local community, there's an incredibly diverse PT population. and hopkins hospitals are top-ranked in nearly all specialities.

i'm also incredibly biased toward hopkins 😍
 
And I'll add.. If you want to end up at Harvard for residency, go to Harvard, and etc.

The education you get in the first two years will be equivalent across the board. Penn has the highest or close to highest boards consistently..or so I hear. I think Yale's system accounts for lower board scores than fellow top 10ish. Though I freely admit that that is all hearsay... 🙂
Also I have to admit that Hopkins clinical SHOULD be best, because the hospital is the #1 in the country. You should see the most interesting cases or whatever and the mentors there are likely the best in the country. But.. Baltimore... isn't for everyone. Plus Harvard is Harvard... lol.

Wait for fin aid, but honestly you can't go wrong. (pick Harvard 🙂)
 
common, how many of u would actually go to the cheapest over yale harvard and JHU... stop giving the guy advice u would never follow.

i have no idea why everyone on SDN jumps at the opportunity to tell stellar applicants to go to state schools, does it make everyone feel better touting the idea that all med schools are equal therefore choose the cheapest?? all med schools are not equal, besides for opportunities in research available, going to harvard u get taught by harvard professors and learn along harvard classmates which (although i never having the privilege of such an environment) im sure would be an amazing experience and a great base for a medical career.

ignore the fact that i used harvard as an example, was just too lazy to write all three.

sorry OP im not fortunate enough to know anything about these amazing schools but dont let this forum of jealousy convince u to go to ur state school. spend the money and get the best possible medical education america has to offer.
gl in wtvr u choose and dam u for being so fortunate 👍

i love you for posting this. a lot. 👍
 
These schools are very different, and I agree that the choice is not simple. Obviously I'm at Yale (and was considering Hopkins) so I'm biased, but the advice I have is general: you need to talk with current students at the school about their experience. Attending second look for each would be the best way to do that, but if that's not possible you should ask the admissions office to put you in touch with some current students - it's the only way to know for sure. Every school covers the same sets of topics, but the way it is done is tremendously different and the atmosphere among the students is also quite different from one place to the next. Do more investigative work into this major decision than listening to some anonymous SDN posters, most of whom know nothing about the schools they are discussing other than their rank in USNWR.

Next, it's my personal opinion that money should not be the deciding factor. You're going into medicine, not a career in grocery bagging, so sure you'll have more debt at one school than another but that is just a question of how long it will take to pay off, not if you will pay if off. Most people with an advanced degree of any type take out loans, and they get a job with a salary and pay it off - end of story. Be happy that you are not getting an MBA and expecting to work on Wall St in a couple years where the same advice does not apply.

And, to correct the previous poster, Yale absolutely does not have lower board scores than "fellow top 10ish." In fact there is a group of 13 schools called the Consortium (I believe it includes Yale, Harvard, Hopkins, Penn, WashU, Columbia, Stanford, Duke, others), and for the past few years not only has Yale's average been much higher than the nat'l average, it's also higher than the Consortium average. Last year we had the highest average in the history of the exam. (and yes, I'm praying that my class will beat or repeat this year). Yale students write First Aid, I mean, come on... I certainly don't propose that you should come to Yale because we score well on the boards, that is not reasonable advice; I just wanted to correct a misstatement. You will determine your own board score wherever you go to school, but the process of getting there may be pretty different.

Feel free to PM with specific questions; the Hopkins-Yale-Harvard war has been waged too many times on this website and is mostly pointless because no one person has been a student at all three schools.
 
Hello everybody! I'm new to the SDN scene, but was hoping for some help as I dont see any forum similar to this from anytime recent. I'm sure there is an annual debate about this but i couldnt find it being new to the layout. i have been truly blessed during this application process and honestly still in shock... but currently am holding acceptances at Hopkins, Harvard, Yale, and my state school with $$. also still waiting to hear from Penn. what an incredible place to be in, but i really really really need advice about what to do. I am unable to attend any revisit weekends (distraught about that) so I need help! Opinions from current medical students especially welcome, or from those making choices between these schools as well (congrats to you all if you are!).

not only do i not know which school to choose, but i dont even know how to begin comparing them with only the one stressed out day I spent at each school interviewing as a basis for my decision.

Wow!

You are the bomb! Congratulations! Your situation sounds like something from ESPN's Fantasy Medical School Applications. My advice is Harvard. Having a Harvard degree will give you opportunities that you simply can't even imagine right now. More knowledgeable people in medicine will know that you can likely get as good an education at your state school as you can at Harvard or Yale or Johns Hopkins. But for everyone else in the world, the perceived value of a Harvard education far exceeds its real value. What if some day you're being considered to be on the board of a company or philanthropy? What if some day your local TV station wants an expert medical opinion for a story? Do you think you'll be more attractive for these opportunities with an M.D. from your state school or Harvard? I'm speaking from experience. I have a Ph.D. in chemistry from Harvard. I have no doubt that my Harvard degree has allowed me life experiences that would've been unavailable to me if I had gotten my Ph.D. anywhere else. These experiences include getting in to medical school. I'll be starting in the fall. If people see a Harvard degree on your resume, they'll give you an extra look. Don't worry about the additional cost of Harvard. Don't think about it as debt. It's an investment. Good luck, although you certainly don't need it.
 
OP:

I would encourage you to consider your state school, Harvard, or Yale. My overall vibe for Hopkins is that it's a very, very intense place. Perhaps it IS the best place for medical education. But my sense is that it's a place a more laid back person might not relish. And Baltimore is a rather sketchy city (but New Haven is too, to be honest).

As for Harvard/Yale vs. state, what are your career goals? Academic medicine, professorship, etc. or private practice? If you want academics, regardless of specialty, it's good to position yourself at a top 10 or even top 20 school, since it will be easier to secure an elite residency, make research connections, get on the tenure track, etc. If you want private practice in primary care or a non-competitive specialty, do the state school. If you want an ultracompetitive specialty (e.g. plastics, neurosurgery), it's easier to get into it from Harvard/Yale, but it depends what the state school in question is. If it's UCSF, UCLA, UCSD, UWash Seattle or something like that you should definitely go with that, the quality is the same as Harvard/Yale.

If you want the Harvard/Yale track, consider the curriculum. Yale has the Yale system. That will make things a lot less stressful in the first two years, let you focus on outside (leadership) interests and study to the boards. On the other hand, if prestige per se is THE most important thing to you, go to Harvard. No other school, not even Hopkins, can compete in the public eye, and even amongst MD's most will put Harvard and Hopkins at a level above their closest competitors Penn, UCSF, Duke, etc.
 
And I'll add.. If you want to end up at Harvard for residency, go to Harvard, and etc.

The education you get in the first two years will be equivalent across the board. Penn has the highest or close to highest boards consistently..or so I hear. I think Yale's system accounts for lower board scores than fellow top 10ish. Though I freely admit that that is all hearsay... 🙂
Also I have to admit that Hopkins clinical SHOULD be best, because the hospital is the #1 in the country. You should see the most interesting cases or whatever and the mentors there are likely the best in the country. But.. Baltimore... isn't for everyone. Plus Harvard is Harvard... lol.

Wait for fin aid, but honestly you can't go wrong. (pick Harvard 🙂)
if you wanted to do a residency at Harvard, wouldn't you increase your chances by NOT going to Harvard? I've always been under the impression that schools can only take a limited number of students from their own institution so you will have to compete with your fellow students at Harvard for the few spots available to Harvard students (or any medical school for that matter)?
 
Go to either HMS or Hopkins.

At either place, you will get top tier education and there will be virtually infinite opportunity in any arena, be that research, public health, international health, etc.

The differences between Hopkins and HMS education turn out to be very subtle so it's really not that big of a deal either way. But the feeling I've generally come across talking to PHYSICIANS (note, not lay persons) at third-party top tier schools is that you might get a slightly more rigorous clinical and medical training at Hopkins, while Harvard might provide for more public policy/other-fuzzy-stuff opportunities. Obviously, the top Med and Public health schools, both schools are nearly equally amazing in both of these areas, but they cater to a different kind of person. And this is reflected in the student body.

To me, Hopkins always seemed a much better fit. I liked old fashioned rigorous didactic learning over PBL. Additionally, there is a HUGE (imo) benefit to being technically ranked #2. You get the exact same education (or better in some peoples opinions) with the same return on prestige opportunity, without the pervasive pretention (if you didn't notice it while you were there, or in their interview day booklet...then maybe you dont mind that stuff).

Anyway it really is a personal choice and what you want out of your medical education. And even then, the differences in the long run are subtle. Also note that Hopkins is P/F for first too years now, so there shouldn't be concern for competitiveness or laidback-ness anymore.

Here is a comparison posted by someone else on college confidential that summarizes things well:

I will start this by repeating what seems to be the general conclusion of this string - they are equal. You will not be faulted for choosing one over the other. For those of you past all of this in your training, please do not let me waste your time with this post. However, I thought that it would be somewhat useful to those who were fortunate enough to have acceptances to both, from the perspective of someone who did not get into either, did well at a top 10 medical school, interviewed at JHH and MGH for residency, and preferably ranked and matched at JHH.

Ultimately what matters is where you do your residency (reputation-wise, as the quality of training is great at the majority of accredited programs). As the admissions process for medical school is far from perfect, a handful of people go to these top notch medical schools and do not take full advantage of them, ending up at average residency training programs (which is by no means a bad thing, but obviously people reading this thread are about trying to get the biggest name possible). At least according to the most recent issue of USNews Best Grad Schools, both Harvard and Hopkins have a 4.8 score reputation among residency directors (the only statistic that should really matter to a pre-medical student). They are, however, very different kinds of institutions.

DISCLAIMER: You can obviously spin the numbers in whatever direction your personal bias prefers (mine is obvious, and that is why I hope to balance it out by conceding that they are equivalent overall). The NIH funding numbers are taken from the NIH website for 2007.

OVERVIEW: (Most other numbers taken directly from USNews)

HOPKINS MED
Total Full-Time Faculty: 2,337
Enrollment: 460
Faculty/Student Ratio: 5:1
Total Nobel Laureates Medicine/Physiology: 13
Research Ranking: #2 (Reputation among Residency Directors 4.8)
Hospital Ranking: JHH #1 (30 points) (18 years straight)
NIH Funding: 435 Million (School of Medicine-JHH): The SOM and JHH are continuous.
Endowment: 2 Billion
Location: Baltimore is a fun city as long as you know it well. It is a very dangerous city if you are not careful. However, it is also very easy to get in and out of the city to spectacular surrounding communities if you want to totally bypass such concerns. Fortunately, the billions spent on renovating and expanding are expected to make great strides in the local community around the hospital. The Science + Technology Park at Johns Hopkins is a massive research center under construction that is one of many projects under the general goal of reviving East Baltimore.

HARVARD MED
Total Full-Time Faculty: 7,656
Enrollment: 758
Faculty/Student Ratio: 10:1
Total Nobel Laureates Medicine/Physiology: 11
Research Ranking: #1 (Reputation among Residency Directors 4.8)
Hospital Ranking: MGH #5, (24 points) (Ranging 2-5 for 18 years), BWH #8 (18 points), BIDMC (Not on the USNews honor roll)
NIH Funding: 163 Million (School of Medicine), 303 Million (MGH), 260 Million (BWH), 113 Million (BIDMC): The hospitals are independent but affiliated with the medical school.
Endowment: 4 Billion
Location: Boston is a fantastic city. You will pay at least 1500/month for a small apartment, but there is significantly less worry for walking a block in the wrong direction, and it is a very convenient, clean, and fun place to be. Getting a nice house within commuting distance for a reasonable price may be tough, however.

Harvard Med is composed of three major academic medical centers (as well as a great children's hospital and various other relatively minor hospitals) that are independently run with a teaching/research affiliation with the medical school (there is as much collaboration as there is competition between them). In other words, the endowment and the total NIH funding is essentially spread out over these three hospitals, with MGH holding the highest reputation at around 300 Million in NIH funding per year (286 in 2005) with a #5 clinical ranking among U.S. Hospitals. Each hospital has its own set of residencies and faculty members (with the rare exception of several residency programs that are combined across all hospitals – although with reputations only as good as their best component). Clearly, the TOTAL funding to Harvard Med is unbeatable. The endowment, as is the case for every other Harvard institution, is vast. However, as an individual clinician/researcher, you see what your individual hospital gets in terms of funding and national reputation. You can say "I'm a Harvard Doctor," to anyone in the world and they will be impressed. If you further define that (as you must) by saying "I'm an MGH doctor," to anyone in the medical world, they will be impressed. If you say "I'm a BWH doctor," they will be happy for you. If you say "I'm a BIDMC doctor," they will say, "Okay." Anyone outside of the medical world not living in Boston will say, "Huh?" to all three (but then you can of course resort to your Harvard Bomb to save face regardless of your position on the totem pole of the Harvard Family). The faculty:student ratio probably means less than most people think. No matter where you go to medical school, you will be overseen by one attending and one resident more likely than not at any given time (the Harvard faculty are not all in one hospital competing to teach, as is perhaps evidenced by the equivalent 4.8 rating of the two medical schools - a lot of the quality of your medical education is on your own shoulders and even if you were somehow actually experiencing twice the faculty spoon-feeding you, it would likely not be with significant benefit).

Hopkins Med is composed of one major academic medical center (as well as various other relatively minor hospitals) that is continuous with the medical school. JHH is the #1 hospital in the country directly backed by the medical school with 435 Million in funding per year (450 in 2005). This combination of the greatest clinical reputation and top research funding as a single facility is unique (Johns Hopkins researchers get significantly more NIH funding per faculty than Harvard on average). Although Hopkins University clearly does not have the same reputation as Harvard University, Hopkins Med is flourishing as patients pay closer attention to hospital rankings and note that even TV shows are made around the institution (In early 2000, for Hopkins 24/7, Hopkins initially hesitated, and Stanford and/or MGH were almost selected before Hopkins finally gave in as the first choice for the show, with the sequel series being recently aired). Terms like "rounds" and "residency" originated at Hopkins thanks to Osler, as a daily reminder of the fact that our whole undergraduate and graduate medical education system started there, with the three-fold mission of patient care, research, and education. The Hopkins reputation is AT LEAST as good as Harvard in the medical world, and it is quickly becoming one of those names throughout the country and the world that, at least for one area, may very well eclipse Harvard (as Princeton has frequently for undergrad). Johns Hopkins Medicine International has many affiliations in other countries that proudly boast their connection with "the best medical center in America." Harvard Medical International also has an extensive international network, but obviously this is not necessary to make the general Harvard reputation any more well-known.

There is also admittedly a great deal of variation amongst the different specialties that compose the clinical rankings (neurosurgery, for instance, is best at the Mayo Clinic, with Hopkins at #2 and MGH at #4 (BWH is in the twenties)). OB/GYN is #1 at BWH and #2 at Hopkins (flip-flopped from last year). You could potentially argue that the combination of MGH and Brigham and Women's would top JHH clinically, although the overlap of specialty scores would not seem to validate this claim (especially if you believe that, say, the 5th best program + the 3rd best program in one category are NOT greater than the #1 program). Specialty rankings in USNews Best Graduate Schools section are also misleading. The Internal Medicine Department and Residency at Johns Hopkins (Osler Medical Service) is well-known as #1 in the country within the medical community. The research rankings on USNews simply reflect the TOTAL research money between MGH, BWH, and BIDMC, though all of these independent hospitals have their own residencies/departments of varying reputation. In short, overall NIH funding and overall endowments are really only as good as the people that you have utilizing them - you need to dissect that information out of the lump sum.

In conclusion, considering the history of fathering modern American medicine, being the first research medical university, hatching the three-fold mission that every medical center now emulates, having the greatest concentration of NIH funding amongst the greatest single collection of clinicians in the country, and USNews and the world recognizing Hopkins as the world's best medical center, getting your foot in the door for residency via medical school is not a bad idea. Connections in any line of work are obviously huge.

However, you will likely be on equal footing if you go to Harvard Medical School (assuming your goal is a residency at JHH, and if it is MGH, HMS will obviously give you closer connections). Yes, everyone in the world will know the name Harvard (although you will have to "fess up" to anyone in medicine as to which hospital for residency). Beth Israel and Brigham and Women's are individually not even in the same dimension as JHH. MGH is comparable but falls short as an individual institution. Yes, Harvard Med has the largest total NIH funding that propels it to the top of the research medical school list at 100% (vs. 82% at Hopkins). As I hope to have successfully outlined, however, this means next to nothing as a medical student and even as a resident/faculty member because you will only be at one facility at a time (hopefully MGH). You will gain a better appreciation of this reality as you interview around the country for residency.

Ultimately, you cannot really go wrong ending up at MGH (affectionately called Man's Greatest Hospital in Samuel Shem's (was a BIDMC resident) book, "The House of God" in 1978, well before USNews got to ranking hospitals) or JHH (affectionately called God's Hospital). I suppose rankings are there for us to want to be better than the next guy – which is probably better for patients in the long-run. Neither of these schools are necessary to being a great physician, however. My only point of advice is to not be complacent if you are lucky enough to get into one of these medical schools. Some of the top residency programs at either institution have been known to not take anyone from their corresponding medical school, as, yet again, test scores and class ranking (basically Alpha Omega Alpha membership) become just as important as they were when applying to medical school. Apologize for the smug cloud in advance and the general d-bagginess of even investing this much effort into an endless argument, but best of luck to those who kicked enough ass to be in this position - do not let its potential real benefit slip through your fingers.
 
These schools are very different, and I agree that the choice is not simple. Obviously I'm at Yale (and was considering Hopkins) so I'm biased, but the advice I have is general: you need to talk with current students at the school about their experience. Attending second look for each would be the best way to do that, but if that's not possible you should ask the admissions office to put you in touch with some current students - it's the only way to know for sure. Every school covers the same sets of topics, but the way it is done is tremendously different and the atmosphere among the students is also quite different from one place to the next. Do more investigative work into this major decision than listening to some anonymous SDN posters, most of whom know nothing about the schools they are discussing other than their rank in USNWR.

Next, it's my personal opinion that money should not be the deciding factor. You're going into medicine, not a career in grocery bagging, so sure you'll have more debt at one school than another but that is just a question of how long it will take to pay off, not if you will pay if off. Most people with an advanced degree of any type take out loans, and they get a job with a salary and pay it off - end of story. Be happy that you are not getting an MBA and expecting to work on Wall St in a couple years where the same advice does not apply.

And, to correct the previous poster, Yale absolutely does not have lower board scores than "fellow top 10ish." In fact there is a group of 13 schools called the Consortium (I believe it includes Yale, Harvard, Hopkins, Penn, WashU, Columbia, Stanford, Duke, others), and for the past few years not only has Yale's average been much higher than the nat'l average, it's also higher than the Consortium average. Last year we had the highest average in the history of the exam. (and yes, I'm praying that my class will beat or repeat this year). Yale students write First Aid, I mean, come on... I certainly don't propose that you should come to Yale because we score well on the boards, that is not reasonable advice; I just wanted to correct a misstatement. You will determine your own board score wherever you go to school, but the process of getting there may be pretty different.

Feel free to PM with specific questions; the Hopkins-Yale-Harvard war has been waged too many times on this website and is mostly pointless because no one person has been a student at all three schools.
Sorry dude 😀
Just repeating what I have heard. Is there any literature to back up Yale's dominance on Boards?
 
common, how many of u would actually go to the cheapest over yale harvard and JHU... stop giving the guy advice u would never follow.

i have no idea why everyone on SDN jumps at the opportunity to tell stellar applicants to go to state schools, does it make everyone feel better touting the idea that all med schools are equal therefore choose the cheapest?? all med schools are not equal, besides for opportunities in research available, going to harvard u get taught by harvard professors and learn along harvard classmates which (although i never having the privilege of such an environment) im sure would be an amazing experience and a great base for a medical career.

ignore the fact that i used harvard as an example, was just too lazy to write all three.

sorry OP im not fortunate enough to know anything about these amazing schools but dont let this forum of jealousy convince u to go to ur state school. spend the money and get the best possible medical education america has to offer.
gl in wtvr u choose and dam u for being so fortunate 👍


I was dead serious about going to the cheapest. I want to attend ECU which is one of the cheapest in the nation.

To the OP: Yale does a pass/fail grading system which means there is less stress in your classes (not much though). JHU would be ideal for someone with interest in research because it is more research oriented I've heard. And Harvard is just Harvard. Everyone wants to go which makes it super competitive, if that is your thing then go for it.

Hope that helps a little more.
 
if you wanted to do a residency at Harvard, wouldn't you increase your chances by NOT going to Harvard? I've always been under the impression that schools can only take a limited number of students from their own institution so you will have to compete with your fellow students at Harvard for the few spots available to Harvard students (or any medical school for that matter)?

Not at all! I have heard that Cornell medical school doesn't want Cornell undergrads. That may be the case with some other schools as well. However, Harvard is notorious for inbreeding, not just in medicine but in many other fields as well. Look at the number of Harvard Ph.D.'s in the Harvard physics department. Sure, Harvard physics is great but it's not THAT much greater than Stanford, Princeton, Berkeley, UChicago, MIT, Columbia, etc.
 
if you wanted to do a residency at Harvard, wouldn't you increase your chances by NOT going to Harvard? I've always been under the impression that schools can only take a limited number of students from their own institution so you will have to compete with your fellow students at Harvard for the few spots available to Harvard students (or any medical school for that matter)?
Well I see it as You (HMS student) vs. Other HMS students (not large number..) for 8 residency spots.
or
You vs The World for the remaining 8 spots 😀

I could be wrong, lol. But I have always though that you are significantly more likely to get in if you go to the med school (connections?) if you are a strong applicant otherwise. It's no secret that many programs [seem to] favor kids from the affiliated med school.
 
common, how many of u would actually go to the cheapest over yale harvard and JHU... stop giving the guy advice u would never follow.
I did just that for undergrad and would've done it for med school had I been qualified enough to have the choice. Sorry, dude. Being able to say you go to Harvard just doesn't mean much (or anything) to lots of people. If I'm going to be paying for pretty much the same thing wherever I go, why pay more when I don't have to?
 
common, how many of u would actually go to the cheapest over yale harvard and JHU... stop giving the guy advice u would never follow.

i have no idea why everyone on SDN jumps at the opportunity to tell stellar applicants to go to state schools, does it make everyone feel better touting the idea that all med schools are equal therefore choose the cheapest?? all med schools are not equal, besides for opportunities in research available, going to harvard u get taught by harvard professors and learn along harvard classmates which (although i never having the privilege of such an environment) im sure would be an amazing experience and a great base for a medical career.

ignore the fact that i used harvard as an example, was just too lazy to write all three.

sorry OP im not fortunate enough to know anything about these amazing schools but dont let this forum of jealousy convince u to go to ur state school. spend the money and get the best possible medical education america has to offer.
gl in wtvr u choose and dam u for being so fortunate 👍


:laugh:
 
even if I could go to Harvard, Yale, or JH, I wouldn't. Can you imagine how many parties and hot girls would be there? Probably close to none. No thanks, I'll take my backwoods no-name schools. At least they throw killer mardi gras parties where cognac isn't the beverage of choice. 👎
 
Why the hell would ANYONE want to live in Baltimore, GIVEN THE CHOICE?!? Go to Hahvad...You're so lucky I'm going to wet my pants...


AtG
 
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It's always tough choosing between different schools...

Could you post some of the things you liked about each of them? Perhaps some of your impressions from your interview day?

I'm just trying to see which school is the best fit for you so I'd love to hear you talk about them. Feel free to go into detail. 😀
 
Each of those medical schools is VERY different from the others. And there are no "rankings," though I will say Harvard and Hopkins are generally considered to be superior to Yale (no offense, Yalies). Each school has a 'flavor' and that's what I'm going to write about (mandatory disclosure: I was admitted to all three but attend a different school, obviously).

Hopkins is a very intense, traditional, rigid place. It is in Baltimore which tends to isolate the students: you will spend your four years in a Hopkins bubble, for good and for bad. The students at Hopkins tend to be very serious and dedicated to medicine. Much less emphasis is placed on 'pedigree' (as in people from a very wide array of undergraduate institutions). Science, scientific medicine and basic science research are emphasized. Hopkins is probably the most respected name in the medical community, though laypeople are less well acquainted with it.

As a previous poster noted, international health opportunities are stellar, though most students are not particularly interested. Internal medicine is the most popular career choice here.

Yale is a laid-back, relatively unstructured place. It requires a thesis-- in absolutely anything, even 18th century opera-- in order to graduate and permits students to take unlimited classes in the rest of the Yale system. If you are a free spirit with wide-ranging academic interests who feels a bit scared at the thought of studying "just medicine" for the next few years, this is the place for you. There are no grades in the first two years (or even required exams) which leads to the rumors of low boards scores and passage rates. New Haven is a small city and the referral base for the hospital system is not large, so the clinical exposure in the third and fourth years is not generally considered to be on par with large metro-area medical schools. Again, students largely exist within a Yale cocoon, but the cocoon includes the wider university (and many go to New York for fun). As an aside, on my interview day I met countless students who bitched constantly that they weren't admitted to Harvard or Columbia, which set my spidey-sense tingling.

Harvard is the most famous medical school to the lay public. Its students tend to be very diverse and not easily stereotyped. It's substantially larger than most top-tier med schools (though watch out: it cheats by listing every single attending physician in its hospital system as a "professor," thus grossly inflating the numbers of faculty). The research resources and international health, business, law, etc resources of the University are largely open to the students. Students tend to have a diverse array of careers within medicine. I personally didn't care for the institution at all; I found it cold, uncaring, and very detached (the attitude was something like "we're Harvard, of course you want to come here, so why should we do anything to entice you?"). But it's hard to dislike it otherwise. Thankfully, they're overhauling the New Pathways program since too many students weren't satisfied with it, or with their boards scores.

In general, med students match preferentially at their own institutions. They're a known entity there. Some schools are more incestuous than others. But as a premed you can't possibly know where you want to do residency, so shelve that for 3-4 years, please.
 
There is 0% chance $$ is going to be equal and I believe that people in their right mind that come from modest origins will go to the one that costs less. The med students on here are right--go for the money (you have NO bargaining power with those 3 names, they dont think they need to convince you to go there with scholarships, your state school on the other hand will). State school ftw.
 
Congratulations, sounds like you'll succeed wherever you decide to go. I say go to whichever school makes you the happiest. If you particularly like Boston, go to Harvard, if you liked the students at Hopkins, go there, or if you liked Yale's curriculum, go there. Believe it or not, you'll look back on the good times you had in med school, make sure you have some.
 
is science + technology park @ hopkins a big deal? how relevant is it to med students?
 
I wish I could ask the same question after 4 years around this time of year..
 
I would go to Yale.
Your first two years will much less stressful than at Hopkins or Harvard.
And contrary to some opinions expressed here, you will still do very well on the boards and get into almost any residency you want - just compare the residency match lists for the three shools over the past three years.

- Now that is MY opinion. The best thing for YOU, would be to talk with students at each of the schools you are considering, to get the inside scoop on how things really are.
Good luck with your decision - you will be just fine whichever school you choose in the end.
 
There is 0% chance $$ is going to be equal and I believe that people in their right mind that come from modest origins will go to the one that costs less. The med students on here are right--go for the money (you have NO bargaining power with those 3 names, they dont think they need to convince you to go there with scholarships, your state school on the other hand will). State school ftw.

i don't know about that... my "modest origins" have led me to believe that student loan debt is not the worst thing in the world. believe it or not, some of us are actually comfortable with the idea of debt after medical school.

anyway, OP, my vote would be for yale. if you're really self-motivated and independent it would probably be good for you.
 
What does your gut tell you, assuming that the money is equal at all of the schools? Trying to find objective opinions on an anonymous board full of highly subjective individuals is useless.

Then run the finaid numbers and your total debt at each school.

Money first, tempered by gut feel, would guide my choice.

And none of us can help you with gut feel.
 
so I realize that my own opinion/gut feeling is what is going to matter most. however, the reason that i posted this in the first place is because my gut feeling is going to have to be based PURELY on my one (rather stressful) interview day at each of these schools since i cant attend revisits.

someone asked above what my initial reaction to each school was to see if that would help give advice. well briefly (and these comments are not meant to offend-- at all! its just personal opinion) my priorities are definitely people/classmates, level of competition/stress, and the clinical years. i think the curric will teach me much of the same stuff anywhere, so its just a matter of adapting to whichever teaching style.

yale: friendly people who seem super down to earth. Yale system seems awesome as I (like pretty much everyone else on here) at least claim to be relatively uncompetitive. not sure im personally motivated enough to truly excel here, but love the idea of it. also like the mandatory thesis bit. a bit worried about the clinical years-- would I be passing up a better preparation at hospitals like MGH and Hopkins? Also, New Haven isnt the greatest however, and im not excited for the cold. close to NYC though which is good.

harvard: obviously great education, great hospital. Not sure about the PBL, I think PBL would work for me so long as I get taught enough previously to make it worthwhile. (I picture me and fellow classmates sitting around a table talking about useless theories because we havent learned enough to approach the problem.) Fantastic research opportunities; dont want to do research longterm but want to have it be a part of my med edu. downside: on my interview day I didnt get the sense that the people there were all that friendly. bad day? or true harvard? also boston is awesome. enough said.

hopkins: got a much better feel from the people than i was expecting, though they did spend more time talking about how all the rumors (super competitive etc) were false than pretty much anything else. I like that theyre going P/F this year, as well as the new teaching center and new hospital wing that will be done in time for clinical. rumors say that hopkins clinical is the best, but their system of going on the wards before taking your step I seems like it could be stressful. in a bad part of baltimore, but i am willing to be convinced that there are better bits.

so.

some of the posts have been great (blonde docteur for example with a breakdown was exactly what i was hoping for). also, i'd love to hear from anybody who has already decided and their reasons for any one of these schools. or people who currently go to one of these schools and what their lives, classmates, school atmosphere is like. feel free to PM me if you'd rather.
 
Congrats on the acceptances!! I interviewed at these three places as well (accepted Harvard, waitlist Hopkins, waitlist or rejection from Yale).

I'm from the Boston area and I am pretty set on attending Harvard. That being said, I think the Harvard's interview day is probably one of the worst that I've had. While my interviewers were nice (I really liked my student interview), HMS didn't feel like it really wants you to come there like almost all of the other schools that I've interviewed at. Hopefully this is just something that's apparent at the interview stage. I know a few HMS grads and they are some of the kindest and most down to earth people that I know. I really hope that the class of 2013 reflects this. It's too bad that I won't be able to meet you at second look!

My interview day at Hopkins was better but I did the feeling that the students might be a little intense. They definitely do spend most of the time trying to dispel the notion that they are competitive with one another. Furthermore, my faculty interviewer did not leave a good impression of the school with me.

I enjoyed my interview day at Yale the most out of these schools but it was a while ago and I honestly don't remember all that much about it. I can definitely see someone going here over HMS or Hopkins if they see themselves fitting in better there.

Best of luck on your decision! It's not an easy one.
 
Go to the one you felt most comfortable at.

Congrats on this great achievement!!
 
It really depends on what your looking for in a school. Are you interested in doing research, then Harvard/Yale/JHU are going to provide better opportunities than your state school. Do your know what field of medicine you want to go into? If its family practice, going to your state school for less money may be the better option, neurosurgery on the other hand, go for one of the other three.

Look at the curriculums too. I don't know about Harvard or JHU, but Yale seems pretty unique in regards to grading,class standing, etc. I would also take location into account.
 
If I was in your situation deciding between those three. I would probably go to Hopkins, even if it is in baltimore. Although if that cheap state school was UTSW, UCLA, UCSF, UVA, UNC, or UW...I would jump all over that.
 
so I realize that my own opinion/gut feeling is what is going to matter most. however, the reason that i posted this in the first place is because my gut feeling is going to have to be based PURELY on my one (rather stressful) interview day at each of these schools since i cant attend revisits.

someone asked above what my initial reaction to each school was to see if that would help give advice. well briefly (and these comments are not meant to offend-- at all! its just personal opinion) my priorities are definitely people/classmates, level of competition/stress, and the clinical years. i think the curric will teach me much of the same stuff anywhere, so its just a matter of adapting to whichever teaching style.

yale: friendly people who seem super down to earth. Yale system seems awesome as I (like pretty much everyone else on here) at least claim to be relatively uncompetitive. not sure im personally motivated enough to truly excel here, but love the idea of it. also like the mandatory thesis bit. a bit worried about the clinical years-- would I be passing up a better preparation at hospitals like MGH and Hopkins? Also, New Haven isnt the greatest however, and im not excited for the cold. close to NYC though which is good.

harvard: obviously great education, great hospital. Not sure about the PBL, I think PBL would work for me so long as I get taught enough previously to make it worthwhile. (I picture me and fellow classmates sitting around a table talking about useless theories because we havent learned enough to approach the problem.) Fantastic research opportunities; dont want to do research longterm but want to have it be a part of my med edu. downside: on my interview day I didnt get the sense that the people there were all that friendly. bad day? or true harvard? also boston is awesome. enough said.

hopkins: got a much better feel from the people than i was expecting, though they did spend more time talking about how all the rumors (super competitive etc) were false than pretty much anything else. I like that theyre going P/F this year, as well as the new teaching center and new hospital wing that will be done in time for clinical. rumors say that hopkins clinical is the best, but their system of going on the wards before taking your step I seems like it could be stressful. in a bad part of baltimore, but i am willing to be convinced that there are better bits.

so.

some of the posts have been great (blonde docteur for example with a breakdown was exactly what i was hoping for). also, i'd love to hear from anybody who has already decided and their reasons for any one of these schools. or people who currently go to one of these schools and what their lives, classmates, school atmosphere is like. feel free to PM me if you'd rather.

The post you think was "great" was certainly well written but it was more or less a confirmation of the stereotypical take on these 3 schools - not saying that it is not valuable - but I thought the post was really just a statement of the already obvious or what should be obvious to anyone who has already interviewed at all 3 schools (I am still a premed and have never set foot in any of those schools, yet I learned nothing from the post that I haven't already read in multiple posts on SDN).

Good luck, but it appears that either you do not trust your own gut, or you are looking for someone to provide you with the "correct" gut response to confirm if not to replace yours.
 
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