Hospital interns

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off2skl

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The hospital I work for seems to be hesitant to differentiate tasks that an intern can do (versus a tech). I know in retail, I am able to take new prescriptions over the phone, do transfers, and counsel. While I have no problem helping out with "tech work" so to speak, I feel that I am missing out on learning opportunities. So, I am trying to gather some ideas of the tasks/tresponsibilities other hospital pharmacy interns have.

Thanks!
 
Tell your director of pharmacy to get his/her head out of arse and provide the learning environment you deserve.

Or else.
 
this is exactly why i hesitate to get a hospital job (even though i want and need the experience) b/c i heard they have interns just filling carts with meds and then delivery them to floors for almost 8 hrs. intern work? hmmm....
 
Much as Zpack talks...if you went up to him w/ that comment...I'm not sure it would get you far - but, who knows? He's different than ANY dop I've ever known.

My experience is the dop is not the main contact individual. Usually, it is the inpt supervisor or whatever pharmacist unit you've been assigned to. That is the person responsible for signing your intern hours.

You need to ask the individual who you were assigned to & if you don't have one, the asst dop or dop, & mention that you would like to follow & learn exactly what the pharmacists are doing. It may be they feel they cannot devote the whole time you are available to that function...I know it has been variable in the different areas of pharmacy how much time we have to devote to a student. And...remember - there is benefit in knowing what the techs are doing & how to do them. After all, you are responsible for EVERYTHING that occurs during your watch as a pharmacist. In addition, if there is a strike or other labor action & your techs don't show up, you have to take over (iI've done this more times than I care to count!).

However..yes...your training should involve personal & intense one-on-one interaction with a pharmacist. What area, the level of involvement & how much autonomy will be dependent upon your level of education, experience & trust you've built with the pharmacist.

Depending on how far along you are in your education, you should be able to read orders & input orders in the computer, if the computer allows pharmacist overrides. You should also be able to calculate dosing intervals & dosages for CrCl susceptible drugs. You should also be aware of the hospitals antibiograms & be cognizant of the antibiotic profile averages for any given month. You should also be able to calculate tpn order specifics - gm protein/CHO/fat & monitor electrolytes, etc...lots of other stuff....talk to the pharmacists (have lunch with them....get them talking...)

Know also...learning diplomacy is a task which many pharmacists never learn...so kudos to your desire to find a way to best accomplish your endeavor.

Good luck!
 
The best thing you can do starting off is learn the "tech work". Since the techs do most of the real work, especially in a hospital, it is in your best interest to learn exactly what they do. This will give you a better appreciation of their job which will give you greater respect for them when you are the pharmacist.

When I was a hospital intern nothing was funnier than seeing just hired brand new PharmD's. Especially the ones who never worked while they were in school. There would be a whole table full of IV's to verify and they would have no clue what they were looking at or how it was made. I found that to be the case for most things, they were lost.
 
Hospital Intern should know how to do everything a pharmacy technican does. That means an intern should work as a tech and get paid as a tech.

But once familiar with the routine, then interns should definitely do projects. I was fortunate that my director and manager allowed us to work on projects during summers. We participated in clinical trials, presentations, lilttle management, and of course JCAHO.

If I get interns, I'll show them how to wax on and wax off. Then they'll be doing all my prep work for the P&T including the politicing the physicians.
 
this is exactly why i hesitate to get a hospital job (even though i want and need the experience) b/c i heard they have interns just filling carts with meds and then delivery them to floors for almost 8 hrs. intern work? hmmm....

That's an intern work. What's wrong with that? You think interns are too good to fill med carts and deliver for 8 hours? I promise you as you're filling a med cart, you get to learn the medications for a patient with different disease state... FYI, I grab some meds and run it up to floors all the time. Nurses love it.

You're a pharmacy student. And you already think pharmacy technician duty is below you? Your attitude will get you nowhere.👎
 
That's an intern work. What's wrong with that? You think interns are too good to fill med carts and deliver for 8 hours? I promise you as you're filling a med cart, you get to learn the medications for a patient with different disease state... FYI, I grab some meds and run it up to floors all the time. Nurses love it.

You're a pharmacy student. And you already think pharmacy technician duty is below you? Your attitude will get you nowhere.👎

tech work is not below me, but i think i know how to read a label and deliver it to the right floor. i don't get to work 40 hours like the techs do and i want to learn how to do stuff i don't know how to do......excuse me if i want to use my time wisely.
 
tech work is not below me, but i think i know how to read a label and deliver it to the right floor. i don't get to work 40 hours like the techs do and i want to learn how to do stuff i don't know how to do......excuse me if i want to use my time wisely.

If you think practicing medication delivery system at a hospital is unwise time management as an intern then you must be much more efficient than I'll ever will be.

It's too bad you think hospital intern job means "filling med carts" because most hospitals no longer use "med carts" but rather use computerized automated cabinets.. of course that would be too easy and too time inefficient for you to learn.
 
There are two types of hospital sites: those who plan to train you to become a successful pharmacist and those who think that's someone else's job. Everyone should know the technician's tasks from the intern to the pharmacist to the DOP. Once you are competent at these tasks, which should take no more than 1 year, a good internship site will offer you the opportunity to learn more, as appropriate to your knowledge and skill set. Projects are good, but you should be doing more than just presentations and crap that someone else wants to avoid doing themself. They need to let you get out there and get into the system. Eventually you should work your way up towards pharmacist's tasks. For a newer intern this could include looking up answers to questions that nurses ask in reference books or charts. You should eventually practice counseling whether it be in the outpatient pharmacy or at bedside, have an opportunity to check off other's work even if you are not the final check, know how orders are entered even if you don't do it yourself, calculate doses, learn normal values and monitoring parameters, and so on. In general, you are there to get practice, feedback, and grow. Anyplace that denies you this learning experience is a paycheck only and not a place to learn.

Although the DOP is not someone you'll typically work with, they are a key person in your internship experience, since they determine the scope and capacity of your practice. Talk to them if you aren't happy. Maybe you can help them to develop a better internship experience for everyone that passes through.
 
tech work is not below me, but i think i know how to read a label and deliver it to the right floor. i don't get to work 40 hours like the techs do and i want to learn how to do stuff i don't know how to do......excuse me if i want to use my time wisely.

You need to realize as an intern, you are not a Pharmacist. Most interns are not even close. Thats why you are working as an intern, so you can learn. Just being in the hospital is putting you far ahead of your classmates who are not working.

You can help yourself out by showing up to work on time and working hard while your there. Ask lots of questions and show the Pharmacists you are motivated to learn. Once you've been there for awhile and the Pharmacists realize you are not an idiot you will notice your responsibilities increase.

I am quite sure if you complain about having to do "tech work" no one is going to be anxious to do you any favors.
 
i never called it "tech work," zpak implied that i meant tech work. i don't have a job at a hospital. i have been interning at retail for over a year and i know what it is like to work you way up. i started out at the freaking drive-thru non stop and now i have lots of tasks that i have mastered and can do. that is not the problem. i am thinking about finding a hospital job, but i have heard how certain hospitals just give you mindless tasks and do not teach you a thing. we all have limited time to learn and serving as a courier does not seem like a hard task to master--i think anyone with half a brain could get it done and done right. these hospitals do not feel a responsibility to teach an intern how to be a pharmacist and will take advantage of you and have you do this most of the days you work. And most interns do not work that much, so you could be an intern for a year and still not have learned a damn thing b/c you work about 1 day a week and they give you tasks like that the whole time.
 
i never called it "tech work," zpak implied that i meant tech work. i don't have a job at a hospital. i have been interning at retail for over a year and i know what it is like to work you way up. i started out at the freaking drive-thru non stop and now i have lots of tasks that i have mastered and can do. that is not the problem. i am thinking about finding a hospital job, but i have heard how certain hospitals just give you mindless tasks and do not teach you a thing. we all have limited time to learn and serving as a courier does not seem like a hard task to master--i think anyone with half a brain could get it done and done right. these hospitals do not feel a responsibility to teach an intern how to be a pharmacist and will take advantage of you and have you do this most of the days you work. And most interns do not work that much, so you could be an intern for a year and still not have learned a damn thing b/c you work about 1 day a week and they give you tasks like that the whole time.

Unfortunately, this thread has become about you when the OP originally asked what kinds of tasks a hospital intern might encounter & how to address the people who might change things if the tasks did not evolve with his level of education.

To the OP - did we answer your questions? If not...let us know & we'll try again.

However, for alwaystired, your thinking is often the case when we have a situation as you describe - an intern 1 day a week who wants to get right to the most clinical & least repetitive setting. However, you know that's not how training goes - either thru your own experience or thru hearsay of your friends. All of us start interns off with routine work which is easy to teach, allows us to get our work done while they learn the task & gives the intern a feeling of learning something concrete. Unless I'm precepting a rotation, that is exactly how I start an intern.

As much as you dislike it, we won't change it for you because its important we, as preceptors, don't give you the impression we don't do "tech" work every single day we work. Why???? Because if we do, you'll then want to go out & find that job which involves no routine, mundane pharmacy "chores". Then you give your coworkers & your dop grief because you only want to be on the front lines & you never want to do drug expiration checks or deliver drugs to the floor because a tech called in sick or pyxis fill (my definition of boredom!). We get interns to the aminoglycoside dosing in time, but that's easy - to learn & accomplish. Its harder to teach interspersonal skills, time management, what can be put aside during an emergency, what is an emergency, etc....

As you say, anyone with half a brain could get routine work done & done right...but..there is a huge lawsuit over the deaths of 3 neonates due to a wrong pyxis fill (which is about as routine as it gets) & the tech, the pharmacist & the pharmacy all share in that responsibility. So....obviously, your theory is flawed & learning how to do routine & mundane tasks over & over again correctly every time is one in which pharmacists need to get good at & develop their own checks & balances. If you never develop it yourself, you cannot & will not be a good supervisor of techs when you get to that point.

If you continue with the mindset you have that we take advantage of you - you won't learn anything while you're there. You are keeping yourself from developing an opportunity to learn that besides what can be derived from a formula. As for a limited time to learn....well-that is your whole career. I'm older than Zpak & I still learn from him as well as the younger pharmacists who I work with & they from me.

Good luck with your rotations & I hope you find the intern position that works for you.

OP - did we answer your questions?
 
The hospital I work for seems to be hesitant to differentiate tasks that an intern can do (versus a tech). I know in retail, I am able to take new prescriptions over the phone, do transfers, and counsel. While I have no problem helping out with "tech work" so to speak, I feel that I am missing out on learning opportunities. So, I am trying to gather some ideas of the tasks/tresponsibilities other hospital pharmacy interns have.

Thanks!


Back to original post, I and lots of interns agree with you. Above you can kind of see the RPh reasoning. At least we have both had good learning at our retail jobs and we will probably get some kind of experience on our rotations. If you still want a better hospital experience, talk to you friends and other students, they may be able to steer you in the direction of hospitals that are more differentiating....especially if you are a 3rd/4th year.
 
Back to original post, I and lots of interns agree with you. Above you can kind of see the RPh reasoning. At least we have both had good learning at our retail jobs and we will probably get some kind of experience on our rotations. If you still want a better hospital experience, talk to you friends and other students, they may be able to steer you in the direction of hospitals that are more differentiating....especially if you are a 3rd/4th year.


good thread
 
I worked at a hospital for three years (just put in my notice) and I did only tech work and very basic stuff at that. We weren't even allowed to make IVs or work in the IV room. The only knowledge I gained was by my own initiative and asking the pharmacists a lot of questions. We did not learn about the distribution system, how to profile, how to dose, what sorts of questions staff pharmacists encounter - nothing. I stayed as long as I did because the pay was good and I really liked my coworkers.

I talked to admin numerous times about wanting more responsibility and wanting to learn more skills than how to reconstitute amoxicillin and draw it up in syringes. I was told that is just the way it's always been. What a waste of resources for them and a waste of time for us interns 👎 It's embarrassing to say I worked in a hospital for three years and haven't a clue how to make a TPN.

I wish I had talked to other interns who had been there awhile before I decided to start working there. My time would have been better spent elsewhere, including a different hospital. Three other interns have recently quit as well.
 
Sorry I haven't posted sooner. It's been a crazy few days. Thank you for all the responses, and yes there are several ideas I can "run with" so to speak. To clarify a few things that came up.

I am actually just about ready to head out on my advanced rotations (2 weeks left) so I am virtually finished with didactic and have no problem with looking up drug information, compatibilities, etc.

I have been an intern at the hospital only 4 months (have worked retail the 3 years prior so I am comfortable with the duties there, but wanted to gain some extra experience in hospital as well). However, I did complete an introductory rotation at the hospital previously as well as volunteered at this same hospital pharmacy for a year before I even went to school, so many of the staff know me and several are comfortable with me doing more, but they aren't sure what this could/should be since the supervisor and director haven't seemed to give them this guidance. (Which is why I am soliciting ideas).

We do have an order entry set up in which the pharmacist can override (in fact there are some techs on the night shift that do order entry due to staffing). I actually have asked about learning this and have sat with a few pharmacists, so perhaps that will evolve over some months.

Thanks again.
 
I worked at a hospital for three years (just put in my notice) and I did only tech work and very basic stuff at that. We weren't even allowed to make IVs or work in the IV room. The only knowledge I gained was by my own initiative and asking the pharmacists a lot of questions. We did not learn about the distribution system, how to profile, how to dose, what sorts of questions staff pharmacists encounter - nothing. I stayed as long as I did because the pay was good and I really liked my coworkers.

I talked to admin numerous times about wanting more responsibility and wanting to learn more skills than how to reconstitute amoxicillin and draw it up in syringes. I was told that is just the way it's always been. What a waste of resources for them and a waste of time for us interns 👎 It's embarrassing to say I worked in a hospital for three years and haven't a clue how to make a TPN.

I wish I had talked to other interns who had been there awhile before I decided to start working there. My time would have been better spent elsewhere, including a different hospital. Three other interns have recently quit as well.


Exact situation that annoys me 👎 ....thanks for sharing what I have meant but have not been able to explain.
 
Sorry I haven't posted sooner. It's been a crazy few days. Thank you for all the responses, and yes there are several ideas I can "run with" so to speak. To clarify a few things that came up.

I am actually just about ready to head out on my advanced rotations (2 weeks left) so I am virtually finished with didactic and have no problem with looking up drug information, compatibilities, etc.

I have been an intern at the hospital only 4 months (have worked retail the 3 years prior so I am comfortable with the duties there, but wanted to gain some extra experience in hospital as well). However, I did complete an introductory rotation at the hospital previously as well as volunteered at this same hospital pharmacy for a year before I even went to school, so many of the staff know me and several are comfortable with me doing more, but they aren't sure what this could/should be since the supervisor and director haven't seemed to give them this guidance. (Which is why I am soliciting ideas).

We do have an order entry set up in which the pharmacist can override (in fact there are some techs on the night shift that do order entry due to staffing). I actually have asked about learning this and have sat with a few pharmacists, so perhaps that will evolve over some months.

Thanks again.


seems like you are in the situation i will be in soon. it seems like you have someone who is willing to help but doesn't know what to do. are you in a small area? maybe your school can provide a list of things final year interns should start doing---our school has specific checklists of what we should be competent in for each year. good luck!
 
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