How accurate are the selection criteria from the SAEM website?

[keeping-it-real]

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from here http://www.saem.org/download/54_60.pdf

thing is, i'm not really feeling my first and second year classes... they're good and all, but pretty bland on the appeal factor. right now i'm sitting around middle of the road and just above a 3.5.

the only reason i ask this is that i'm pretty stoked about EM and the "shadowing" i've done really makes me think it is what i want to do (i know, i know... i can't be sure until i've done my 3rd and 4th year rotations). I'd like to be able to have options in where i apply, but i'm really not too keen on memorizing the genetic makeup of a lymphocyte. Don't get me wrong, i have the capacity do sit and study 10 hours a day about crap i don't really care about, but i'd prefer not to do it and i don't feel that it will have an application in my life as a clinician.

so would i be able to "take a hit" on my pre-clinical grades yet still have some good options if i can compensate with good EM grades, letters, and interview?

thx

 

[corpsmanUP]

One thing I have noticed over the last 5 years is that a lot of the people that go into emergency medicine actually have either EMS or EM nursing experience. In the last 2 classes at my school, at least 3-4 people that went into EM were paramedics or EMT's. This seems to really shoot one's application to the top because even these people were only average students. My guess is you can probably put that value front and center as the most important variable. But obviously if you are a traditional applicant, you probably need to be in the middle of the pack at least to be competitive. I'll know more after match this year obviously. I was a little surprised at the average cuttoff scores for EM. My guess is that if you are really at a score below 200, then you better have something in the package that shows your dedication to this field. On the other hand, my guess is that scores 250-270 on both steps would probably give you a huge edge even if you were not all that dedicated to the field. But I don't believe you can get in with either package without showing some real reason as to why you should get in. I also think the value of the personal statement has to be more than they are giving it credit for.

 

[keeping-it-real]

One thing I have noticed over the last 5 years is that a lot of the people that go into emergency medicine actually have either EMS or EM nursing experience. In the last 2 classes at my school, at least 3-4 people that went into EM were paramedics or EMT's. This seems to really shoot one's application to the top because even these people were only average students. My guess is you can probably put that value front and center as the most important variable. But obviously if you are a traditional applicant, you probably need to be in the middle of the pack at least to be competitive. I'll know more after match this year obviously. I was a little surprised at the average cuttoff scores for EM. My guess is that if you are really at a score below 200, then you better have something in the package that shows your dedication to this field. On the other hand, my guess is that scores 250-270 on both steps would probably give you a huge edge even if you were not all that dedicated to the field. But I don't believe you can get in with either package without showing some real reason as to why you should get in. I also think the value of the personal statement has to be more than they are giving it credit for.

well i was an EMT during undergrad and worked a short time with the local fire rescue unit as a volunteer. i didn't really do much, but I did have my certification and tried to get some work (short of going full fire or paramedic, they are hesistant to hire just EMTs).

if i had to guess, i'd be right around 220 on the boards... my shelf exam scores for the basic sciences are usually around 90th percentile or so.

regarding the personal statement, i can kinda believe that it is so low. really, why read the personal statement if they are going to come interview? it just seems that many times, the PS is so bloated and filled with nonsense that it really isn't worthwhile.

what it comes down to for me is that i almost refuse to get caught up in the game of memorizing every stupid detail under the sun. i know that this is medical school, but i'm not a tool and i'm not going to literally waste time remembering some specific DNA sequence of a cell because our professor just happens to be a top research scientist in the field.

i'm stoked about learning clinical skills, i'm stoked about helping all people from all walks, etc... but i'm not digging the particulars of the sciences. if i cared about that type of stuff, i'd be keeping-it-real, PhD, not keeping-it-real, MD.

 

[anonymousEM]

The study you quoted is something to go from, but certainly not an end-all or be-all. There are a couple of threads in the "what are my chances" vein which adress this idea ad nauseaum if you can wade through the fatty mcfatty pants and in-n-out burger comments. Basically, to get into residency you need to do well enough overall to get yourself 1 (preferably more) interview and then on that day be a likeable person that your interviewers could imagine working happily with for the next 3-4 years. There are a million things that are looked at when interviews are offered. As you'll see from the fact that people have interviews before the Dean's Letter is done, grades aren't the only thing. EM tends to look for well rounded, reasonable, hard working people with some personality. EMS/EM RN could help you, but only if you can separate yourself from that and not be the unteachable know-it-all. Your best way to get an interview at the place you really want to be is to do a rotation there in your 4th year early on and do and make a great impression. Good luck and for now do the best you can on preclinicals and step 1...it's not impossible to overcome poor scores, but you don't want to be in that position if you can avoid it as it will close some doors.

 

[southerndoc]

We have a heavy EMS component, and people with prior ED/EMS experience do get a lot of consideration. However, if you just got your EMT to better your application (you can usually smell these people out) without working that much, then it doesn't add much to your application.

You ask how accurate the selection factors in that article are. Keep in mind that it's a scientific study, so it doesn't mean ALL programs select by criteria in the article, but the majority of them do.

 

[corpsmanUP]

We have a heavy EMS component, and people with prior ED/EMS experience do get a lot of consideration. However, if you just got your EMT to better your application (you can usually smell these people out) without working that much, then it doesn't add much to your application.

You ask how accurate the selection factors in that article are. Keep in mind that it's a scientific study, so it doesn't mean ALL programs select by criteria in the article, but the majority of them do.

What program are you at Southerndoc?

 

[deleted52758]

preclinical grades dont mean too much in the grand scale of things. just dont fail any classes. i think if you look at that study, they put the things in order of priority, grades in EM rotation, SLOR, and clinical grades i believe are the top three cited in that study.

 

[southerndoc]

What program are you at Southerndoc?

Yale

 

[keeping-it-real]

We have a heavy EMS component, and people with prior ED/EMS experience do get a lot of consideration. However, if you just got your EMT to better your application (you can usually smell these people out) without working that much, then it doesn't add much to your application.

You ask how accurate the selection factors in that article are. Keep in mind that it's a scientific study, so it doesn't mean ALL programs select by criteria in the article, but the majority of them do.

the EMT certification didn't get a whole lot of use but it was more due to the fact that i was a fulltime student and they wouldn't hire just an EMT for a month or so during summer. i got it the summer after my first year and used it for about one year with the local fire rescue as a volunteer. being just an EMT and a fulltime student made it difficult to put it to better use.

i know i could put the time in and probably do a little better, but i feel it is pointless to do. i don't feel like ending up like many of the other students do... having to take sleeping pills, doped on speed, and generally in poor physical health because they feel the need to outcompete classmates. so if i can avoid becoming a neurotic case study, i'd prefer it, you know?

 

[corpsmanUP]

Yale

How would you handle this situation. My school issues grades to us in our mailboxes on campus for 3rd and 4th year clerkships, but does not enter them on the transcript. They just show a pass/fail on the transcript as per policy. The GPA though is reflective of these courses though. And, the Dean in his letter lists all 3rd year clerkships honored. But 4th year grades are not discussed (per policy). Our school has EM in 4th year, so how do I prove to the programs I am applying to that I honored my rotation with a 97? I have the grade in my hand that I could show them at an interview but I don't want to miss an interview because of it. I mention in my PS about my EM grade, but when they look at my transcript it won't show a grade. Confused? I know it stinks, but how do I approach this problem? Will PD's just assume that if I honored all 3rd year clerkships that I must be telling the truth about honoring EM as stated in my PS? And my grades and transcripts don't lie, and these show top grades and scores. Hec, i just don't know how to get around this. My LOR from my preceptor on EM clerkship hopefully discusses my grade, but who really knows!!!?

 

[southerndoc]

How would you handle this situation. My school issues grades to us in our mailboxes on campus for 3rd and 4th year clerkships, but does not enter them on the transcript. They just show a pass/fail on the transcript as per policy. The GPA though is reflective of these courses though. And, the Dean in his letter lists all 3rd year clerkships honored. But 4th year grades are not discussed (per policy). Our school has EM in 4th year, so how do I prove to the programs I am applying to that I honored my rotation with a 97? I have the grade in my hand that I could show them at an interview but I don't want to miss an interview because of it. I mention in my PS about my EM grade, but when they look at my transcript it won't show a grade. Confused? I know it stinks, but how do I approach this problem? Will PD's just assume that if I honored all 3rd year clerkships that I must be telling the truth about honoring EM as stated in my PS? And my grades and transcripts don't lie, and these show top grades and scores. Hec, i just don't know how to get around this. My LOR from my preceptor on EM clerkship hopefully discusses my grade, but who really knows!!!?

Have one of your EM physicians writing a letter of recommendation (i.e., the chair) place it in his/her letter of recommendation.

 

[NinerNiner999]

...if you can wade through the fatty mcfatty pants and in-n-out burger comments.

Fatty McFattypants.

(Sorry - I couldn't resist)