How are portions of your AMCAS application fact-checked, if at all?

[philosonista]

Hello, SDN --

I've been curious as to if your AMCAS applications are fact-checked. As in, does someone go through and verify that you really won that award, etc? Do you have to provide a way for your claim to be verified (i.e. provide a contact)?

Example: I won an award for an Opinion piece I wrote for the school paper, but it is neither listed online, nor is the competition mentioned anywhere online with a person who could be contacted. How is AMCAS going to know I actually won this award?

Another concern I often have is that I didn't keep track of my volunteer hours before I considered myself a pre-med, so I have no contacts for my volunteering. Does that mean it can't go on my application? That seems a bit sad, if so, that you should only do things if they are verifiable...

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[Ismet]

You have to list a contact person and either a phone number or email address for each entry.

But it's extremely rare for a medical school to call a contact. This only happens in extreme cases where an activity seems fishy.

 

[nemo123]

From what I've heard, schools will only reach out to your contacts if something seems really odd during the interview (ie they ask you to describe what you did in a club and you can't give an answer).

Also, things like pubs can be easily found on PubMed, and some of my interviewers have read my pubs.

 

[LizzyM]

don't put it past an adcom to google anything on your application. If an organization doesn't exist or that opinion piece isn't archived, there may be some doubt sewn in an adcom member's mind. Most won't have time for this but don't take a chance that some two-bit campus prize will derail your application.

 

[Goro]

As usual, my learned colleague is spot on. I've read stuff in apps that, while seemingly innocuous, for some reason set off my BS detector.

You should see these people squirm at interviews when I call them on it. They try to disappear into the backs of the chairs they're sitting in.

don't put it past an adcom to google anything on your application. If an organization doesn't exist or that opinion piece isn't archived, there may be some doubt sewn in an adcom member's mind. Most won't have time for this but don't take a chance that some two-bit campus prize will derail your application.

 

[NickNaylor]

This has been asked and answered a million times. Try searching first before making a thread.

The long-short of it, as mentioned above, is that you will list contact information for each of your activities. In reality, it is highly unlikely that anyone will verify your activities without a reason for doing so. Resources are limited and people have better things to do with your time. However, as LizzyM mentioned, people can and will search for stuff, particularly if it seems like there's something wonky about a listed experience or if what you list in your app and what you mention in your interview is inconsistent.

The absolute numbers of hours, experiences, etc. really isn't the important thing to take away from your apps. What's important is how you talk about them and demonstrating that you actually took something away from the experiences. That is something not easily faked and will take precedence over whether you have 10 or 1000 hours at a particular experience. The applicant that has 10 hours but can talk about an experience in a way that makes it clear they took away something from it is much preferred over the applicant with 1000 hours of experience but can't even articulate what they got from the experience or why they did it.


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[alpinism]

Exactly.

Premeds on here seem to get overly stressed about someone having 200 vs. 500 volunteering hrs. In reality, it matters very little. Overall, its more about quality than quantity (within reason of course, most adcoms would like to see more than 20 hrs of volunteering, but there really isn't any significant difference between lets say 100 and 200 hrs).

The most important parts of your application are your GPA and MCAT, both of which are always verified. Other important things such as research or job experience can be easily verified through a simple google search or email.

Regarding extracurriculars such as clinical experience, shadowing, community service, and hobbies, you'll be expected to discuss them at length during interviews.

 

[Catalystik]

But it's extremely rare for a medical school to call a contact. This only happens in extreme cases where an activity seems fishy.

This may be true for most schools, however, there used to be an adcomm on SDN (njbmd) who stated her school did "a thorough investigation of every student who matriculates." She reported cases of dismissal for lying on their application years into med school, since the investigation was so time consuming.

 

[hoihaie]

This may be true for most schools, however, there used to be an adcomm on SDN (njbmd) who stated her school did "a thorough investigation of every student who matriculates." She reported cases of dismissal for lying on their application years into med school, since the investigation was so time consuming.

ouuuuuuuuuuuuch....

 

[deleted480308]

they are fact checked vicariously through the real and rational fear that a school will send you home with no degree when they find out you lied on your app.

Just be honest and it doesn't matter

 

[el_duderino]

 

[philosonista]

Thank you, all.

I only started this thread because I only found discussions of "verified" AMCAS applications in a different sense of "verified" in my brief search.

I'll list the Journalism professor that sent out a flyer about the competition, who seemed to have a role in coordinating the rest of the competition process, and provide the name of the article that ADCOM's can find on the paper's website. Hopefully that will suffice.

 

[Donald Kimball]

This may be true for most schools, however, there used to be an adcomm on SDN (njbmd) who stated her school did "a thorough investigation of every student who matriculates." She reported cases of dismissal for lying on their application years into med school, since the investigation was so time consuming.

Haha this doesn't make any sense. Why would you fact-check applicants after accepting them?

It sounds like a colossal waste of time and money.

There's just too many applicants and too few admission resources to spend on verifying everyone's hours, titles, responsibilities, and achievements.

 

[Goro]

Can't speak for the Cat, but I could envision troubling info arriving after the person had already matriculated.

Haha this doesn't make any sense. Why would you fact-check applicants after accepting them?

It sounds like a colossal waste of time and money.

There's just too many applicants and too few admission resources to spend on verifying everyone's hours, titles, responsibilities, and achievements.

 

[Donald Kimball]

Can't speak for the Cat, but I could envision troubling info arriving after the person had already matriculated.

That's a good point. But fact-checking every matriculant on a systematic-level, and rescinding spots in the class after a year or more? Seems ridiculous.

 

[DokterMom]

Haha this doesn't make any sense. Why would you fact-check applicants after accepting them?

It sounds like a colossal waste of time and money.

There's just too many applicants and too few admission resources to spend on verifying everyone's hours, titles, responsibilities, and achievements.

Maybe because the number of applicants pre-acceptance is way too large, and you don't want to be responsible for producing a dishonest graduate? Even being able to say that you verify everything post-acceptance can be helpful in the sense that dishonest applicants with other options will be more likely to choose them.

 

[Catalystik]

That's a good point. But fact-checking every matriculant on a systematic-level, and rescinding spots in the class after a year or more? Seems ridiculous.

You might be interested in reading a thread where she comments on her institution's approach to the issue:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...out-previously-attending.682415/#post-8992885

 

[Planes2Doc]

It's based on the honor system. As long as things seem Kosher during the interview, you're okay. But if the school decides to verify for any reason (random check, something seems fishy, etc), and you're found out to be lying, then the penalties are incredibly severe.

Also, to the ADCOMs in this thread, if you catch an applicant lying during the interview and it turns out they fabricated something, does this only stay within your school, or do you let other schools or AMCAS know?

 

[Donald Kimball]

You might be interested in reading one of her posts on the issue:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...out-previously-attending.682415/#post-8992885

Very interesting but it sounds even more outrageous now. She claims that school milks the students for all of their tuition and then drops them, and even presses criminal charges? I'm with @Gastrapathy, surely there's some public record of a case like this, and it would be a lightning rod for answering the question "Can I lie on my application?" Especially since this school sits on the investigation until they get their money, you'd think a case like this would be ripe for a (public) lawsuit. It all seems too incredulous to believe.

It's based on the honor system. As long as things seem Kosher during the interview, you're okay. But if the school decides to verify for any reason (random check, something seems fishy, etc), and you're found out to be lying, then the penalties are incredibly severe.

Also, to the ADCOMs in this thread, if you catch an applicant lying during the interview and it turns out they fabricated something, does this only stay within your school, or do you let other schools or AMCAS know?

You'd think they'd report to AMCAS, who would then investigate and transmit the results to every school.

 

[LizzyM]

Very interesting but it sounds even more outrageous now. She claims that school milks the students for all of their tuition and then drops them, and even presses criminal charges? I'm with @Gastrapathy, surely there's some public record of a case like this, and it would be a lightning rod for answering the question "Can I lie on my application?" Especially since this school sits on the investigation until they get their money, you'd think a case like this would be ripe for a (public) lawsuit. It all seems too incredulous to believe.



You'd think they'd report to AMCAS, who would then investigate and transmit the results to every school.

Who would be suing whom? The application requires you to attest that the application is true and complete. If you hide the fact that you previously matriculated at another school (the example given) and did not disclose that, matriculated at the new school and then were found out, you will be out on your ass and there is no lawyer who can change that situation or get you any damages.

 

[Donald Kimball]

Who would be suing whom? The application requires you to attest that the application is true and complete. If you hide the fact that you previously matriculated at another school (the example given) and did not disclose that, matriculated at the new school and then were found out, you will be out on your ass and there is no lawyer who can change that situation or get you any damages.

Still, surely there exists record of such a case?

At the same time, I get the impression that concealing prior matriculation may be a more serious offense than exaggerating or fabricating some ECs.

Clearly, the uncertainty of the process means the best choice is to simply not lie.

 

[el_duderino]

Still, surely there exists record of such a case?

At the same time, I get the impression that concealing prior matriculation may be a more serious offense than exaggerating or fabricating some ECs.

Clearly, the uncertainty of the process means the best choice is to simply not lie.

What kind of case? A student suing after being kicked out of medical school? What are you looking for here?

 

[Donald Kimball]

What kind of case? A student suing after being kicked out of medical school? What are you looking for here?

Criminal charges being filed against an applicant who lied or concealed information on their application, specifically prior matriculation, as njbmd suggested her school does. Though she says they are subject to charges, so maybe they haven't actually had to go that far.

 

[el_duderino]

Criminal charges being filed against an applicant who lied or concealed information on their application, specifically prior matriculation, as njbmd suggested her school does. Though she says they are subject to charges, so maybe they haven't actually had to go that far.

Who knows? Maybe you should start searching FindLaw if you want to find such a case?

 

[aspirantmed]

Criminal charges being filed against an applicant who lied or concealed information on their application, specifically prior matriculation, as njbmd suggested her school does. Though she says they are subject to charges, so maybe they haven't actually had to go that far.

That probably would not be a criminal case, seeing as you have not violated any laws of the United States or any state or municipal laws in that process. It would be a (very easy) civil lawsuit for breach of contract, since medical school secondaries often ask you to sign and verify that you have correctly provided all given information and some schools even have you sign more detailed contracts about their rules and expectations prior to matriculation.