How bad is the Psyd, if YOU pay your way vs. loans??

[OasisStudent]

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Hi there!
Im a masters/Ed.S student in School Psychology and have made it my goal to obtain my PhD in Counseling or Clinical to "expand my options" right after this program so I can work with college-aged students since my interests are in the academic development of disadvantaged adolescents through college. Now I don't know if this "PhD" is at all worth it even if it's in School Psychology as I've been reading a lot on this board concerning the state of Psychology right now in terms of the time invested and the return.

Since Im not really into research, but moreso into assessments and counseling, I'm starting to think it would be more "feasible" to get the PsyD since there are a lot of part time PsyD programs where one can work full time (as an SP for ex.) and pay their way through even if they're paying $30,000 a year. In my mind, this should be a better alternative for someone interested in the psychology field because although they are paying "out of pocket," at least they have some type of job to carry them through and make some extra money so they don't get in debt.. (especially someone single with no family).

So my point is, if the PhD keeps you locked up like a slave and the PsyD gives you freedom (part time programs), why not use that freedom to make some $$$ and pay your way??

Would this be a smart move? Instead of going through a 5-6 year research intensive program, rack up some debt (living expenses) even if it's fully funded and end up working at a school or maybe at a college counseling center making peanuts?

 

[MMMPsych]

I am an Ed. S, school psych, student and am completing my final year (internship) of the program. I have applied to some clinical PsyD programs and am planning to go that route in the Fall.
As for myself, I plan to use the 10 year/government plan to forgive my soon to be large abundance of loans. I do not see any other way out of it for myself. I think a funded PhD will leave you in less debt either way but will more than likely require more time.
Feel free to contact me if you wanna chat. Good luck.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I'm starting to think it would be more "feasible" to get the PsyD since there are a lot of part time PsyD programs where one can work full time (as an SP for ex.) and pay their way through even if they're paying $30,000 a year.

To clarify, this is for School Psychology, right....as I'm not aware of any clinical psych programs that are part-time.

 

[KGZotU]

From an economical perspective, it doesn't matter much whether you pay out of pocket or take a loan; student loan rates are fairly close to expected return on investment for anything else you might choose to do with the money. Student loan debt is good or bad based on what opportunity you use it to finance, it's not intrinsically good or bad.

What's the alternative, a funded PhD? An unfunded PhD? With a funded PhD there's no need to accumulate debt. Plus, you need only work one job and you can complete it on a full time schedule. To me, that sounds better than scraping by with a job and three-quarters while you complete a degree on a part-time schedule.

 

[PsyDr]

"there are a lot of part time PsyD programs where one can work full time"



LOL

 

[erg923]

So my point is, if the PhD keeps you locked up like a slave

Simple, it doesn't.......

PS: What you might view as "slave labor" (for some reason), others might consider learning how to be a scientist....

 

[erg923]

Hi there!
since there are a lot of part time PsyD programs where one can work full time (as an SP for ex.) and pay their way through even if they're paying $30,000 a year.

Even if such program exists.......you be paying 30,000 (which is insane to start with) for twice as long since its "part-time"...what kind of financial investment is that? Who wants to be in grad school for 10 years? You're not actually suggesting you can get obtain the same amount of competence, experience and knowledge in 5 years at 20 hours/week as the rest of us do in 5 years ar 50-60 hours/week are you? Good, I didnt think so.....

 

[cara susanna]

I can't imagine doing what I'm doing plus a part-time job outside of school, even when you factor out assistantship work and research.

 

[psychmama]

I'm not sure you'd be able to find that many psyd programs that are part-time and allow you to work full-time, at least in the first two years of the program. I am someone who paid my own way through a clinical psyd program without student loans. This was made possible from savings I'd accumulated from other work before grad school, somewhat lower tuition due to state residency, a grad assistantship, and some part-time work. That said, I've taken on some debt to make it all work, albeit not student loans.

In my program at least, no one has time to keep a full-time day job while pursuing a doctorate.

 

[OasisStudent]

Because many of you who responded to me (except a few) are misinformed..

Yes, there are School Psychology programs for the working professional. PCOM and FDU for example where technically it is a PsyD program that is really built as full time. Maybe I should have made that more clear. While there are other PsyD programs like Pace for example where a PsyD part time = more years. The other programs I mentioned are full time but are in the evenings for the working professional and are about $20,000 a year.

And yes, it seems like many of you PhD Clinical Psychs are slaving as I've been reading the other threads.

I appreciate your help, those who've helped me instead of act like I don't know what Im talking about.

Good day. : )

 

[OasisStudent]

"there are a lot of part time PsyD programs where one can work full time"



LOL

Do your research, this is for School Psychology.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Do your research, this is for School Psychology.

To be fair, you started your post talking about, " have made it my goal to obtain my PhD in Counseling or Clinical", which is what most people were commenting on.

 

[PsyDr]

there are exactly SIX apa approved school psyd programs.

i guess doing my homework would have shown that exactly NONE of them are conducive to working full time.

but thanks.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

There can be a general frustration by those of us who are or have completed doctoral work when others think the work is such that it can easily be done on a part-time basis. There are good reasons why the work needs to be full-time, and there will be a fair amount of skepticism for any suggestion there are viable part-time options.

 

[erg923]

The other programs I mentioned are full time but are in the evenings for the working professional and are about $20,000 a year.

Then we have very different definitions of "full-time"......whats yours? Mine's more like 10-12 hours/day rather than 4.

 

[OasisStudent]

To be fair, you started your post talking about, " have made it my goal to obtain my PhD in Counseling or Clinical", which is what most people were commenting on.

Yeah thats my mistake. Im not doing it anymore because of how it all seems a waste of time from what Ive been reading from those in the field. When I meant PsyD, I mean School Psychology PsyD. Sorry for not stating that.

 

[OasisStudent]

there are exactly SIX apa approved school psyd programs.

i guess doing my homework would have shown that exactly NONE of them are conducive to working full time.

but thanks.

Thanks for that information and thanks to the rest of you who have truly been helpful.

 

[JockNerd]

I'm consistently confused by people who post a question on the board then get offended when people don't validate what they already decided to do.

 

[aagman01]

I heard that CUNY, Hofstra, Farleigh Dickinson University, and Kean University have phd/psyd in school psych that can be done part-time. Keeping in mind that such programs will likely take you 10 years to complete part-time, and I don't believe the crazy work and long-duration it will take to complete is worth the work.

Yeah thats my mistake. Im not doing it anymore because of how it all seems a waste of time from what Ive been reading from those in the field. When I meant PsyD, I mean School Psychology PsyD. Sorry for not stating that.

 

[OasisStudent]

I'm consistently confused by people who post a question on the board then get offended when people don't validate what they already decided to do.

You are right. Now realizing this was the wrong board for my type of question..

 

[OasisStudent]

From an economical perspective, it doesn't matter much whether you pay out of pocket or take a loan; student loan rates are fairly close to expected return on investment for anything else you might choose to do with the money. Student loan debt is good or bad based on what opportunity you use it to finance, it's not intrinsically good or bad.

What's the alternative, a funded PhD? An unfunded PhD? With a funded PhD there's no need to accumulate debt. Plus, you need only work one job and you can complete it on a full time schedule. To me, that sounds better than scraping by with a job and three-quarters while you complete a degree on a part-time schedule.

Thanks KGZotU. I often heard that even funded PhD's still accrue debt. When I discovered some PsyD programs in School Psych that are intended for the "working professional" and is APA/NASP accredited, I thought that I could work full time while still obtaining my degree especially since I already have many loans from undergrad. Being single w/ no kids and willing to do what I have to do to get to be where I want to be (my being first generation and wanting to establish some type of financial foundation for me and my parents) that route made sense to me. I have had NUMEROUS of people tell me to do the Phd. "It's more prestigous, better respected, you'll have more options, etc." I even have had 2 summers in which I took part in research internships where I was immersed in the life of a grad student. I realized then that research intensive programs wasn't for me and that I want to practice but be able to still "teach" if I want to even if its not at a research 1 institution.

I mentioned before that this was the wrong board for my question. Most people on here are probably "full time" PhD research or at least partially research oriented and would see my type of goal with the PsyD as a "cop out," "not up to par" or beneath what they go through daily in PhD programs. Honestly, I'd be better off in the Masters board.

Im not seeking validation but some honest, non biased, informed advice. If you didnt know what I was talking about Id prefer you not respond with some, "let me tell you about PsyD programs in School Psychology.." when your knowledge of PsyD programs in Sp is limited.

I appreciate your insight though because it was very helpful and made things a little bit more clear in terms of investments made through loans vs. out of pocket. For some reason never looked at it that way

 

[KGZotU]

Not a problem. Here's how the numbers run in my head.

Funded PhD might give you a $15k stipend and take 5 years. The numbers are just a guess on my part; I know $15k is low for the sciences, but I haven't looked into Clinical Psychology specifically. Maye it's more like $20k? So, depending on your lifestyle you might or might not be taking on debt. If you are, it's not very much. Some weeks you might be working 60-80 hours, but, depending on your program, that might be an unusual, infrequent, or frequent occurrence. That time is often moderately social as well. Depending on your program, you might also have a lot of freedom during the summer and other breaks, and you can use that freedom to pick up part time work, hostel in Europe, whatever. Not sure if that's the norm in Clin Psych, but some in some programs that's true.

The alternative is working certainly 80 hours a week for 5 years, or working 60-80 hours a week for 8 years if the program is part time. In addition, you're saving little to no money, and most of that time you'll have your nose to the grindstone.

Within a reasonable margin of error in my estimate the money per year works out to the same, and the work is more and lasts longer. Maybe I've got some assumptions wrong, and maybe with some actual numbers to work with you'll find it in fact works in your favor. If you're figuring on a part time program, though, don't forgot about the opportunity cost of the money you'll be making after finishing a full time program 2-4 years earlier.

Cheers.

 

[erg923]

Thanks KGZotU. I often heard that even funded PhD's still accrue debt. When I discovered some PsyD programs in School Psych that are intended for the "working professional" and is APA/NASP accredited, I thought that I could work full time while still obtaining my degree especially since I already have many loans from undergrad. Being single w/ no kids and willing to do what I have to do to get to be where I want to be (my being first generation and wanting to establish some type of financial foundation for me and my parents) that route made sense to me. I have had NUMEROUS of people tell me to do the Phd. "It's more prestigous, better respected, you'll have more options, etc." I even have had 2 summers in which I took part in research internships where I was immersed in the life of a grad student. I realized then that research intensive programs wasn't for me and that I want to practice but be able to still "teach" if I want to even if its not at a research 1 institution.

I mentioned before that this was the wrong board for my question. Most people on here are probably "full time" PhD research or at least partially research oriented and would see my type of goal with the PsyD as a "cop out," "not up to par" or beneath what they go through daily in PhD programs. Honestly, I'd be better off in the Masters board.

Im not seeking validation but some honest, non biased, informed advice. If you didnt know what I was talking about Id prefer you not respond with some, "let me tell you about PsyD programs in School Psychology.." when your knowledge of PsyD programs in Sp is limited.

I appreciate your insight though because it was very helpful and made things a little bit more clear in terms of investments made through loans vs. out of pocket. For some reason never looked at it that way

First of all, no one complained about you gettting a psy.d. Most of us here have no problems with the degree, but rather, have problems with the types of school that offer them and the lack of scientific rigor within the curriculum at those schools. This is not what the Vale model intended. Most of us also advocate for the importance of research and science in psychology, since its the root of this dicipline and what seperates you from a social worker or masters level practitioner. Just because you are getting a psy.D does't mean you aren't a scientist. In other words, it doesn't let you off the research hook, so to speak.

My stipend is more than 15, and slightly less than 20. And I (and most of us on here) in no way feels like slaves in our program. Alot of the bitching in recent threads has been regarding poor pay once we are out. Big difference. I dont mind working hard for mediocre pay while im student. I, (and most people i know) also make extra money by doing clinical research positions such as serving as raters or data analysts, or psychometricians on various studies. I have found the money to be good ($25/hour on the study im working on now). I think the notion of doctoral degrees "for the working professional" is odd and kind of a oxymoron. The doctorate isnt supposed to be convenient or easy. Where did this come from......? And evening classes=full time, get real.......despite popular notions in society, no one is entitled the opportunity to get one.