How can Canadians afford a US medical school?

[Filius]

I've yet to find an American university that doesn't list "US citizen" as the first eligibility requirement for any sort of financial aid. Have any of the Canadians who have gone south before me found any non-loan sources of funding? Even the purportedly "international-friendly" universities, like Stanford, seem to come up dry.

I have the stats to get in, but it looks like I'll be stuck in my own country. 😕

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[CodeBlu]

I've yet to find an American university that doesn't list "US citizen" as the first eligibility requirement for any sort of financial aid. Have any of the Canadians who have gone south before me found any non-loan sources of funding? Even the purportedly "international-friendly" universities, like Stanford, seem to come up dry.

I have the stats to get in, but it looks like I'll be stuck in my own country. 😕

What Canadian school do you attend?

 

[Filius]

I did a BSc. in Engineering Physics at the U of A, and am now there again for an MSc. It's not a terrible place to be -- I'm used to the winters, of course, so that's not an issue -- but our fall only lasts for, like, five days. It makes me sad. 😀

 

[candav]

Borrow, borrow, borrow. Or get a merit scholarship. Or pray you get into Harvard or Yale.

 

[CodeBlu]

OP I feel for you. But I've been in the US long enough to have residency requirements met. Even though I'm a US citizen, you still have to live here.

U of A is intense, never been out that way.

What are your stats and ECs?

 

[Filius]

Wait -- what's special about Harvard and Yale? From what I researched, they seem to have the same strings attached to their financial aid and are, if anything, more pricey than the average college. 😕

(Though, not *that* much more pricey, which stunned me. I expected a whole lot more disparity.)

There are *too * many smiley to choose from on this forum. 😆

 

[Filius]

And, I dunno if I'm Yale-worthy:

GPA: ~3.85 (both s and c)
EC's: Lots of leadership/service in the last year, some community service before then. ICU voluteering (~70 hrs.) Played piano all my life, am not bad (RCM).
Research: Two summers, plus a degree capstone research project, plus over a year of MSc. But, it's all in the physical sciences/nano, not health-related.

My only saving grace is the MCAT, on which I got a 43S -- otherwise I probably wouldn't even be thinking America. 😀


The other thing is, I'm basically at the very end of the application cycle, which sort of ruins my chances. :/

Where did you do your undergrad? And where are you now! Exciting!

 

[CodeBlu]

And, I dunno if I'm Yale-worthy:

GPA: ~3.85 (both s and c)
EC's: Lots of leadership/service in the last year, some community service before then. ICU voluteering (~70 hrs.) Played piano all my life, am not bad (RCM).
Research: Two summers, plus a degree capstone research project, plus over a year of MSc. But, it's all in the physical sciences/nano, not health-related.

My only saving grace is the MCAT, on which I got a 43S -- otherwise I probably wouldn't even be thinking America. 😀


The other thing is, I'm basically at the very end of the application cycle, which sort of ruins my chances. :/

Where did you do your undergrad? And where are you now! Exciting!

No, NOT at all. Submit your application NOW. You will get interviews with a 43 and a 3.8.

I promise you can get med school paid for with those stats and ECs. Consider the University of Chicago Pritzker. Our resident Catalystik will prob give you a school list. I don't know which schools have merit based scholarships other than UChicago, Catalystik can help with that.

Also, I will PM you my info. 🙂

 

[sector9]

There are *too * many smiley to choose from on this forum. 😆

MCAT, on which I got a 43S

No, NOT at all. Submit your application NOW. You will get interviews with a 43 and a 3.8.

I promise you can get med school paid for with those stats and ECs. Consider the University of Chicago Pritzker. Our resident Catalystik will prob give you a school list. I don't know which schools have merit based scholarships other than UChicago, Catalystik can help with that.

Also, I will PM you my info. 🙂

Doesn't UMich also like to give big scholarships to lure high stats students? Don't know if they accept international applicants though and I'm too lazy to check <Waiting for twitter response from UMich>

 

[CodeBlu]

Doesn't UMich also like to give big scholarships to lure high stats students? Don't know if they accept international applicants though and I'm too lazy to check <Waiting for twitter response from UMich>

Yeah, UMich is a bit of a stats *****. I forgot about them. APPLY THERE OP!

 

[blizzah]

I don't believe UM accepts our kind 😛 You should be very competitive in Canada with a friggin 43 even if the schools don't look upon the MCAT with as much emphasis.

I think banks give up to 200k in line of credit for all Canadian/American MD school candidates although I don't know much about them. What's wrong with taking a loan?

Frankly though, the people I do know applying to the states (including me) will have most of our tuitions paid for by our parents, so that's how we end up getting by. Doesn't really help you I guess.

 

[QuiSait]

Looks like you got some good suggestions about where to apply.

I've seen a lot of people say on here and on the Canadian forums that it can be really hard to get back into Canada to practice if you've trained in the US, so just something to look into if you do end up finding American schools that you want to go to.

 

[ZtetNb]

I believe US MD grads who are considered as Canadian Medical Graduates by CaRMS, so I don't think they have any formal disadvantage. I'm not sure though.

 

[Don15]

I have nothing to contribute to this thread besides saying hats off to that mcat score of 43

 

[candav]

Wait -- what's special about Harvard and Yale? From what I researched, they seem to have the same strings attached to their financial aid and are, if anything, more pricey than the average college. 😕

(Though, not *that* much more pricey, which stunned me. I expected a whole lot more disparity.)

There are *too * many smiley to choose from on this forum. 😆

I know Canadians at both H and Y; both give full financial aid consideration to international students.

Also, APPLY! My MCAT is like...almost 10 points lower than yours. Awesome job!!

 

[Catalystik]

Besides those mentioned, www.premed101.com has a post reporting that WashU, Dartmouth, Einstein, Case, and Vandy have given scholarships to Canadians, and that UConn charges Canadians in-state tuition after one year. I've not personally seen any information that this has happened recently, though, except for Yale.

And BU gave scholarship money to an SDNer applying from Canada 2 years ago.

 

[Mithril]

Why not go to a Canadian school? Far less debt and a 43 is bound to get you in somewhere, unless of course you want to practice in the US. The quality of education is the same either way.

As for paying for American tuition, many schools require an escrow account to show that you can pay for a substantial portion of your tuition and living expenses. Some Canadians come from affluent families. Some Canadians get a $200k line of credit from a major bank provided that you have a co-signor for the credit in case you default on your loans. Canadians at Canadian med schools don't need a co-signor, but Canadians at US schools do. Some Canadians take out a second mortgage on their homes or their parents do, which is extremely risky and costly. Some Canadians also get scholarships at the respective schools.

 

[Mithril]

I believe US MD grads who are considered as Canadian Medical Graduates by CaRMS, so I don't think they have any formal disadvantage. I'm not sure though.

This is true as long as you are a Canadian citizen or PR. CaRMS recognises ANY Canadian citizen or PR graduate from ANY LCME-accredited school as a Canadian medical graduate.

 

[NH14]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you go to an AAMC accredited Canadian school (e.g. McGill), you can take the USMLE, apply to residencies in the US and then practice in the US - no?

 

[Mithril]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you go to an AAMC accredited Canadian school (e.g. McGill), you can take the USMLE, apply to residencies in the US and then practice in the US - no?

Yes, but you will not be considered a US senior. You'll be pooled in with the independents (IMGs). Also, if you are a Canadian that plans to practice in the US you will need to worry about work visas and obtaining a green card in the future.

Additionally, I want to point out that Canadian med school curricula are specifically tailored to the Canadian MCCQE exams and not the USMLEs. Inverse is true for American med school curricula.

 

[SBR249]

I'd suggest besides schools that give merit, looking at schools that give all students tons of money out of their own pocket.

Merit schools that I know: Emory, Chicago, Penn, Northwestern, WashU

Schools that have lots of money: Cleveland Clinic (full tuition for all students on college track, US/Canada welcome I think), Mayo Clinic (don't know if they still do half tuition scholarship for all, also don't know if international students welcome).

 

[QuiSait]

Yes, but you will not be considered a US senior. You'll be pooled in with the independents (IMGs).

Is the reverse true for Canadians who've gone to school in the US and are applying for residency in Canada?

Of course, all of this is a non-issue if OP wants to stay in the States forever.

 

[ncrassa]

OP, Vanderbilt and Duke also claim to offer need-based aid to all students and merit scholarships as well. As someone else said, CCLCM offers a full-tuition scholarship for all students and has several international students in its midst. Mayo also has half-tuition scholarships for all students regardless of citizenship. These are also schools to look into in addition to the ones others have mentioned. I'm also an international (not Canadian though) applying this cycle. You have great stats and should at least apply and see! Good luck!

 

[rhysticlight]

Is the reverse true for Canadians who've gone to school in the US and are applying for residency in Canada?

Of course, all of this is a non-issue if OP wants to stay in the States forever.

Its actually not the reverse, if you are a Canadian citizen who graduated from an LCME accredited school in the US, then you are considered a 1st tear applicant in the CaRMS match and the US match.

 

[Filius]

Aah! So much feedback! Thank you all! It's nice to know there's a whole swath of Canadians and Canadian-helpers around these parts.

Mmkay, I'll definitely look into Chicago, with their universally-lauded generosity. My parents are kind of lacking in the "being-rich" department; I'll tell them to get on that. But, I've looked into the domestic financing a little.

Besides those mentioned, www.premed101.com has a post reporting that WashU, Dartmouth, Einstein, Case, and Vandy have given scholarships to Canadians, and that UConn charges Canadians in-state tuition after one year. I've not personally seen any information that this has happened recently, though, except for Yale.

I did find this list, but most of the schools I checked on it didn't seem international-friendly on their websites. Stanford, for instance, is listed in green, but the first thing their website says is:

"Foreign students are not eligible for institutional or federal financial aid. Please contact the M.D. Admissions Office for additional information."

I'm definitely not tied to American schools -- I'm also applying through OMSAS to the U of T and maybe Queens, as well as U of A and U of C. Maybe McGill, but they only accept a handful of out-of-province applicants, and I don't know if they really care about MCAT scores. U of A is my top Canadian choice, I think, as there are families and girlfriends and such around here. 😀


But, I can't just walk away from a shot at some of the upper-tier American Universities -- if I can get some financial aid on the basis of a lucky break on the MCAT, well, I can't not apply and see.

So, from what I hear above, I should look into:
Harvard
Yale
Vanderbilt
Duke
Chicago
Mayo

Which is ridiculous, just looking at it. I'm glad Americans care so much about the MCAT, compared to Canadian schools.

 

[QuiSait]

Good luck to you 🙂

For financial aid, most US schools all look at your parents' ability to pay, not their willingness. Or you know, their need to ever retire. And it's up to some absurd age, like 30.

Anyway, that's more of a vent than anything. I hope you get a good package somewhere 🙂

 

[Mithril]

Is the reverse true for Canadians who've gone to school in the US and are applying for residency in Canada?

Of course, all of this is a non-issue if OP wants to stay in the States forever.

I've already stated in my earlier post how the CaRMS works for Canadians at US med schools.

I'm definitely not tied to American schools -- I'm also applying through OMSAS to the U of T and maybe Queens, as well as U of A and U of C. Maybe McGill, but they only accept a handful of out-of-province applicants, and I don't know if they really care about MCAT scores. U of A is my top Canadian choice, I think, as there are families and girlfriends and such around here. 😀

Which is ridiculous, just looking at it. I'm glad Americans care so much about the MCAT, compared to Canadian schools.

I think you should just apply everywhere in Canada and see where you get in. Ottawa and McGill will probably disqualify you on the basis of GPA, but Canadian schools do actually care a lot about the MCAT or they wouldn't have ridiculous cut-offs like R for writing or 11 for VR. A 43/3.85 is bound to get you in somewhere in Canada as long as you're not socially ******ed.

 

[Filius]

...as long as you're not socially ******ed.

... And important caveat? Anyway, OMSAS degrades my GPA a bit with their A=3.90 rule, so I'm not overly optimistic. And McGill, well, I wasn't even going to bother until I got this score. Alberta and Calgary, though, since I'm in-province, should be doable.

There are some complications, as my degree was supposed to end in August, not June, but my plan is to apply to:
McGill
Queen's
Toronto
Alberta
Calgary

The Alberta "drop your worst year" policy: I am a fan.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[vc7777]

Schools that have lots of money: Cleveland Clinic (full tuition for all students on college track, US/Canada welcome I think)...

...As someone else said, CCLCM offers a full-tuition scholarship for all students and has several international students in its midst. ...

Do NOT apply to CCLCM for the scholarship. And no, we do not have "lots of money". People who try and come here because of the money will be the most miserable of all students. Research is embedded in every aspect of our curriculum, and we go essentially all year-round for five years straight. If you do not have a fire in your belly for research - the money will not offset how unhappy you will be.

 

[SBR249]

Do NOT apply to CCLCM for the scholarship. And no, we do not have "lots of money". People who try and come here because of the money will be the most miserable of all students. Research is embedded in every aspect of our curriculum, and we go essentially all year-round for five years straight. If you do not have a fire in your belly for research - the money will not offset how unhappy you will be.

Any school that gives full tuition scholarships to everyone has "lots of money", maybe not in total endowment, but it's more available than a tightwad school sitting on a billion dollar endowment (not meant as a reference to any particular med school).

As for applying for scholarship, no one said it's the only thing to consider. I'm assuming that anyone applying would be smart enough to look at a school's mission and philosophy and decide whether he/she is a good fit. Money is just a facilitator. If schools X and Y are both strong in research, and you want to do research, but only school X gave merit money, then you'd want to know that so you don't waste time and money applying to school Y.

A better example would be, if you were buying a car. You first set a budget or price range, then you see what's available, then you test drive, do research, comparison shop, until you find a short list that you liked based on all the criteria you considered. But you gotta start somewhere, the price is a realistic starting point.

 

[Myuu]

Any school that gives full tuition scholarships to everyone has "lots of money", maybe not in total endowment, but it's more available than a tightwad school sitting on a billion dollar endowment (not meant as a reference to any particular med school).

As for applying for scholarship, no one said it's the only thing to consider. I'm assuming that anyone applying would be smart enough to look at a school's mission and philosophy and decide whether he/she is a good fit. Money is just a facilitator. If schools X and Y are both strong in research, and you want to do research, but only school X gave merit money, then you'd want to know that so you don't waste time and money applying to school Y.

A better example would be, if you were buying a car. You first set a budget or price range, then you see what's available, then you test drive, do research, comparison shop, until you find a short list that you liked based on all the criteria you considered. But you gotta start somewhere, the price is a realistic starting point.

You do realize CCLCM has a class size of 32 (and 5 years), right?😳

 

[MrCheetah]

I've yet to find an American university that doesn't list "US citizen" as the first eligibility requirement for any sort of financial aid. Have any of the Canadians who have gone south before me found any non-loan sources of funding? Even the purportedly "international-friendly" universities, like Stanford, seem to come up dry.

I have the stats to get in, but it looks like I'll be stuck in my own country. 😕

You say that like its a bad thing. How I WISH I was Canadian.

 

[CodeBlu]

You say that like its a bad thing. How I WISH I was Canadian.

Why?

 

[MrCheetah]

Why?

Lower cost of education, better healthcare system, Canadian passport, just to get started.

 

[Don15]

Lower cost of education, better healthcare system, Canadian passport, just to get started.

yupp waiting months to see the doctor. great healthcare system...

 

[MrCheetah]

yupp waiting months to see the doctor. great healthcare system...

Thats not what its like you pillick. I'm sick of stupid Americans knowing nothing about the other healthcare systems of the world.

 

[MrCheetah]

yupp waiting months to see the doctor. great healthcare system...

Much less stupid Americans who want to be doctors.

 

[MartletMD]

You say that like its a bad thing. How I WISH I was Canadian.

Lower cost of education, better healthcare system, Canadian passport, just to get started.

... the right to live in Canada, being able to apply for residency in any province. 🙁 I'm with you here. My great-grandmother was born in Canada and emigrated to the US before my grandmother was born. Just one freaking generation apparently stands between me and a nice, shiny SIN card. Had the parent who has maple syrup running in their veins been born on Canadian soil (not difficult to imagine), I would be Canadian and on premed101 right now. I am thoroughly convinced that American + Canadian dual citizenship is potentially the best combination to have, right there with EU + US/Canada.

yupp waiting months to see the doctor. great healthcare system...

Ever actually been to a Canadian doctor or dealt with Canadian insurance (of a public or private flavor)? Don't knock it 'till you try it. While waiting lists are a reality in some cases, and ERs are overcrowded at certain times (shocking revelation), I'd rather not let a condition get so out of hand because I can't afford a PCP or my medication that I have get surgery so I can go completely broke. There are issues - every system has 'em - but we can't act like Canada's system's flaws are worse than the US's. They aren't even in the same galaxy.

And, what's more, the physician shortage is projected to be resolved by 2013 or something. The late Leader of the Official Opposition (RIP Jack, you were an inspiration) ran on bringing more Canadian IMGs back to Canada to practice (the only one to do so, Canadians!), among other things of course. Even a promise is a heck of a lot better than we can offer American IMGs.

TL;DR: I <3 Canada, and so should you!

 

[Myuu]

The Canadian system is actually pretty sweet!🙂

 

[CodeBlu]

Lower cost of education, better healthcare system, Canadian passport, just to get started.

... the right to live in Canada, being able to apply for residency in any province. 🙁 I'm with you here. My great-grandmother was born in Canada and emigrated to the US before my grandmother was born. Just one freaking generation apparently stands between me and a nice, shiny SIN card. Had the parent who has maple syrup running in their veins been born on Canadian soil (not difficult to imagine), I would be Canadian and on premed101 right now. I am thoroughly convinced that American + Canadian dual citizenship is potentially the best combination to have, right there with EU + US/Canada.



Ever actually been to a Canadian doctor or dealt with Canadian insurance (of a public or private flavor)? Don't knock it 'till you try it. While waiting lists are a reality in some cases, and ERs are overcrowded at certain times (shocking revelation), I'd rather not let a condition get so out of hand because I can't afford a PCP or my medication that I have get surgery so I can go completely broke. There are issues - every system has 'em - but we can't act like Canada's system's flaws are worse than the US's. They aren't even in the same galaxy.

And, what's more, the physician shortage is projected to be resolved by 2013 or something. The late Leader of the Official Opposition (RIP Jack, you were an inspiration) ran on bringing more Canadian IMGs back to Canada to practice (the only one to do so, Canadians!), among other things of course. Even a promise is a heck of a lot better than we can offer American IMGs.

TL;DR: I <3 Canada, and so should you!

The Canadian system is actually pretty sweet!🙂

You know I'm Canadian right?

I will consider accepting applications for marriage. The fee is $1 million dollars to apply. Applications start now.

 

[MrCheetah]

You know I'm Canadian right?

I will consider accepting applications for marriage. The fee is $1 million dollars to apply. Applications start now.

Are you a man or a woman? And, if a woman, are you sexually attractive?

 

[CodeBlu]

Are you a man or a woman? And, if a woman, are you sexually attractive?

Sorry bro. That one was directed towards Myuu 😉

I am progressive... but not that progressive. Hahaha

 

[MartletMD]

Are you a man or a woman? And, if a woman, are you sexually attractive?

Are those questions even relevant?

I go to a school where I am surrounded by smart, cute Canadian dudes (like yourself, Code Blu of course) who I know I could marry for their passport. (Kidding, Immigration Canada, if you're watching... tooooooootally (kind of) kidding) 😉 I am the Sandra Bullock to their Ryan Reynolds'.

 

[CodeBlu]

Are those questions even relevant?

And CodeBlu, your offer is tempting, but I go to a school where I am surrounded by smart, cute Canadian dudes (like yourself, of course) who I know I could marry for their passport. (Kidding, Immigration Canada, if you're watching... tooooooootally (kind of) kidding) 😉 I am the Sandra Bullock to their Ryan Reynolds'.

Montreal? Are you at McGill or UdeM? Anything else... Sherbrooke, Concordia

Parle francais??? Wait... I just caught on... are you American going to school in Canada? If so... I'd marry that kind of determination.

 

[MartletMD]

Montreal? Are you at McGill or UdeM? Anything else... Sherbrooke, Concordia

Parle francais??? Wait... I just caught on... are you American going to school in Canada? If so... I'd marry that kind of determination.

Oui, je parle français. Pas trés bien, et certainement pas assez bien pour s'inscrire (?) dans une université francophone. 🙂 Yay McGill!

And yes, I am made in the USA.

 

[CodeBlu]

Oui, je parle français. Pas trés bien, et certainement pas assez bien pour s'inscrire (?) dans une université francophone. 🙂 Yay McGill!

And yes, I am made in the USA.

Je t'aime!!!!

Les universites francophone sont tres facile pour le enseignement du francais. C'est tragique.

Besides... McGill is as anglophone as you can get in a French speaking city. I don't know how long you've been there, but you can never go to Schwartz's again... you must go to La Belle Province. Do it. GO NOW!

I'm from Montreal originally, so I know what goes down there. Maybe McGill will love me back? We will see...

 

[CodeBlu]

MartletMD... make sure you take PHGY 212 and 213 labs at McGill. I know you'll like the course. Trust me.

Hahaha

 

[Myuu]

You know I'm Canadian right?

I will consider accepting applications for marriage. The fee is $1 million dollars to apply. Applications start now.

Sorry, bro. Already dating a Canadian.

 

[CodeBlu]

Sorry, bro. Already dating a Canadian.

Lmao. You are?

 

[Myuu]

Lmao. You are?

Yup!