How "cheap" are international (non US) schools

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disabled&proud

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I'm trying to figure out how to calculate whether any international schools (I'm in USA) should be on my radar, in this case just by "true" cost of attendance. How do I calculate this? For example, just because my friend from England mentioned Nottingham is a cool place to live, how would I go about confirming things like the cost of living in Nottingham (tuition for U of Nottingham's vet program for international students is clearly listed), including visa costs? It seems like it might be cheaper than a lot of out of state US schools, even with travel, other than unknowns like visa costs, and whether the listed cost of living online is accurate, given the high costs of living in US areas. Caveat: probably no school internationally will actually be the cheapest school, but if it might be close, I might apply, in case I don't get into in state?
 
I'm trying to figure out how to calculate whether any international schools (I'm in USA) should be on my radar, in this case just by "true" cost of attendance. How do I calculate this? For example, just because my friend from England mentioned Nottingham is a cool place to live, how would I go about confirming things like the cost of living in Nottingham (tuition for U of Nottingham's vet program for international students is clearly listed), including visa costs? It seems like it might be cheaper than a lot of out of state US schools, even with travel, other than unknowns like visa costs, and whether the listed cost of living online is accurate, given the high costs of living in US areas. Caveat: probably no school internationally will actually be the cheapest school, but if it might be close, I might apply, in case I don't get into in state?
Many international schools tuition are “cheaper” in comparison bc their vets are getting undergraduate degrees not doctorates (that’s just how they classify it) and receive significantly lower pay than us in comparison when out of school. When you make exchange rates, the tuition and rent costs are usually about equal with US schools besides a few. The GBP has a particularly bad exchange rate right now, for example a 40,000 pound a year program would exchange to over 50,000 USD a year making it more comparable to our schools, BUT every program is different, I also don’t think Nottingham is AVMA accredited but that’s something to check bc if you don’t attend an accredited program you are spending THOUSANDS of more dollars to take multiple exams in order to then take the NAVLE and be North American certified
 
I'm trying to figure out how to calculate whether any international schools (I'm in USA) should be on my radar, in this case just by "true" cost of attendance. How do I calculate this? For example, just because my friend from England mentioned Nottingham is a cool place to live, how would I go about confirming things like the cost of living in Nottingham (tuition for U of Nottingham's vet program for international students is clearly listed), including visa costs? It seems like it might be cheaper than a lot of out of state US schools, even with travel, other than unknowns like visa costs, and whether the listed cost of living online is accurate, given the high costs of living in US areas. Caveat: probably no school internationally will actually be the cheapest school, but if it might be close, I might apply, in case I don't get into in state?
VIN has a cost of education map you can Google. It breaks down cost, including interest build up over time.
 
VIN has a cost of education map you can Google. It breaks down cost, including interest build up over time.
Yeah I just don't know if I believe the cost of living aspect of this map because it appears to be based on what schools report on their "full cost of attendance" pages and those are often incorrect. (For one of my degrees it was overestimated/not as expensive as they claimed, but looking at schools in high cost of living areas like my in state, it's definitely underestimating, or estimating assuming a grad student is going to do what undergrads frequently do and cram as many beds as possible into an already tiny apartment.) So I was hoping someone who went international might have more specific insight.
 
Yeah I just don't know if I believe the cost of living aspect of this map because it appears to be based on what schools report on their "full cost of attendance" pages and those are often incorrect. (For one of my degrees it was overestimated/not as expensive as they claimed, but looking at schools in high cost of living areas like my in state, it's definitely underestimating, or estimating assuming a grad student is going to do what undergrads frequently do and cram as many beds as possible into an already tiny apartment.) So I was hoping someone who went international might have more specific insight.
I know specifically information for Dublin their tuition is cheap but cost of living is sometimes 2-3x what it would be at some US schools
Do you mean even if they pass NAVLE and move back to the states? Or do you mean if they stay in that country?
If they stay in their country
 
I also don’t think Nottingham is AVMA accredited
It is! My friend asked me what vet schools there are in the UK, so I just went to the AVMA page and told her the list, and then she started telling me Nottingham and Glasgow are both really nice and I should move to one of them. She kind of just meant in general, though.
 
I’m truly asking because I don’t know for sure, but doesn’t Europe have overall less disability protections/accomodations than in the US? I feel like I’ve seen on social media (admittedly things like TikTok and dog Facebook groups where service dogs are frequently mentioned, which may not be reliable) that they don’t have the degree of ADA protections we have in the US and often it’s much less accessible. You made such a big deal about discrimination and disability stuff and ableism in a prior thread I find it interesting you’re now asking about different countries which may have very different viewpoints relating to disability, if what I’ve seen online is indeed true. But you’d obviously be the expert on what you need and whether those needs can be sufficiently met, not me. Or perhaps I have it backwards and the UK has even better protections.
 
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Yeah I just don't know if I believe the cost of living aspect of this map because it appears to be based on what schools report on their "full cost of attendance" pages and those are often incorrect. (For one of my degrees it was overestimated/not as expensive as they claimed, but looking at schools in high cost of living areas like my in state, it's definitely underestimating, or estimating assuming a grad student is going to do what undergrads frequently do and cram as many beds as possible into an already tiny apartment.) So I was hoping someone who went international might have more specific insight.
VIN does have to go off of the schools report because that's the data they have to work with.

You could take the data VIN gives for just tuition and interest accumulation for your ideal OOS school and your ideal international school and compare that initially. From there, I would use whatever federal data for the particular area of the US and the international location to compare.

As an example, my OOS school was Illinois. I could live on about 25k/year in Champaign considering *everything*. Could I live in Dublin for the US equivalent of 25k a year in 2016? Most likely not.
 
I’m truly asking because I don’t know for sure, but doesn’t Europe have overall less disability protections/accommodations than in the US?
This is true. And most veterinary schools in the UK require international students to pass a health screening to be able to attend. I had fallen in love with University of Edinburgh but decided not to apply due to the wording of their "disabled applicant" document. If you want to read the whole thing, this is the link:


Some snapshots:
"...a history of mental illness could be grounds for not admitting an applicant onto the course where they could be a danger to themselves." (I'd like to know who decides this)
"[On anorexia] Veterinary students must develop a capacity for self-audit and a person who is unable to admit to a condition such as severe anorexia and accept the necessary treatment would not meet this competence."
"[On immunosuppression and exposure to pathogenic organisms] It may therefore not be in their best interest to be admitted to the course. Admissions staff will need to take further medical advice on a case-by-case basis."

Now, this isn't to say that some serious mental health or physical conditions might preclude someone from going to vet school. Nor is it to say that conditions aren't complex and vary by individual. But as someone with a history of treatment resistant depression and is on immunosuppressants for rheumatoid arthritis, I felt like I'd be making a donation to Edinburgh by applying. I did apply to Glasgow, but later found out they require a similar health screening, as does RVC I believe. I don't know how strict they are about this at the admissions level, but they're clearly not going above and beyond to be accommodating.
 
Some snapshots:
"...a history of mental illness could be grounds for not admitting an applicant onto the course where they could be a danger to themselves." (I'd like to know who decides this)
This wording is super interesting bc ,,, what do they mean?? Like would someone be removed from the program if they admitted to having a history of self harm bc the program has you working with scalpels?? this seems so vague??
 
This wording is super interesting bc ,,, what do they mean?? Like would someone be removed from the program if they admitted to having a history of self harm bc the program has you working with scalpels?? this seems so vague??
Oh you missed my favorite paragraph!

"Occasionally, in a small number of cases, problems affecting a student’s ability to practise may emerge or worsen during the course (for example due to an accident or a worsening clinical condition). The School will seek to offer as much support as possible. Individual cases are treated with sympathy and understanding and where possible are helped to complete the programme. However if these difficulties cannot be resolved it may be appropriate for a student to be transferred to another course that would not lead to a registerable degree."

My interpretation of this is if you have a medical issue ranging from injuries from a car accident to cancer to a chronic condition that isn't well controlled, they will not allow you to finish school, regardless of how much you have completed. Again, this is just my interpretation and I may be cynical because of my own experiences, but it sure is worded as if they have the right to kick you out for most any reason. While the US is far, far, far from perfect, I do not believe this would fly here.
 
This is true. And most veterinary schools in the UK require international students to pass a health screening to be able to attend. I had fallen in love with University of Edinburgh but decided not to apply due to the wording of their "disabled applicant" document. If you want to read the whole thing, this is the link:


Some snapshots:
"...a history of mental illness could be grounds for not admitting an applicant onto the course where they could be a danger to themselves." (I'd like to know who decides this)
"[On anorexia] Veterinary students must develop a capacity for self-audit and a person who is unable to admit to a condition such as severe anorexia and accept the necessary treatment would not meet this competence."
"[On immunosuppression and exposure to pathogenic organisms] It may therefore not be in their best interest to be admitted to the course. Admissions staff will need to take further medical advice on a case-by-case basis."

Now, this isn't to say that some serious mental health or physical conditions might preclude someone from going to vet school. Nor is it to say that conditions aren't complex and vary by individual. But as someone with a history of treatment resistant depression and is on immunosuppressants for rheumatoid arthritis, I felt like I'd be making a donation to Edinburgh by applying. I did apply to Glasgow, but later found out they require a similar health screening, as does RVC I believe. I don't know how strict they are about this at the admissions level, but they're clearly not going above and beyond to be accommodating.
Well I learned something today. Had absolutely no idea this would be a thing anywhere.
 
While the US is far, far, far from perfect, I do not believe this would fly here.
I've seen it happen at the undergrad level (not to me, though, because it is illegal so when I did have an acute medical emergency in college and my college tried to kick me out, I hired a lawyer and for a grand total of $300, the cost of 2 hours of his time doing mediation, forced them to rescind the actions they were taking against me - however they pulled the same thing on another student a year after I graduated and that student didn't have the resources to get a lawyer and just got kicked out). I've also seen it happen in non-medical graduate programs (again not to me). In both cases it depending on how students' disabilities were being interpreted by whomever had the ability to dismiss them. In undergrad that was student life (who was flagged by the housing staff because that's who they had us call if we had to go to the ER and needed a ride home). In non-medical grad schools that's generally your advisor. Couldn't say either way about whether it happens at vet schools, but it absolutely happens in the USA. There's faculty in disability studies who just study academic ableism because this kind of thing is so common (although it's not always as extreme as not letting someone graduate, it often is).

To the overall question of whether other countries' anti discrimination laws for disability (if they have any - they don't all) are equivalent to the USA's ADA, my best answer is "from what I can tell it depends." I have a friend with my exact same disability who uses my exact same accommodations going to occupational therapy grad school in England (can't remember off the top of my head which uni), though, so I do at least have one person to ask if it seems like UK schooling would be financially doable. (Still trying to track down true cost of living for someone who is not a citizen, though.)

I definitely will look more into the medical requirements and how disability accommodations impact those, but US vet schools also have these, and they are also written in ways that will discourage disabled prospective students.

Just to pick on my IS, Davis says vets are required to have observation skills and, "These skills require the functional use of vision, hearing, and touch." Now, I know there are veterinarians who are Deaf because I saw an article from JAVMA about three of them when I was trying to find vets with disabilities more generally. And I've seen plenty of interviews and articles about veterinarians who are amputees of different kinds, so touch operates differently for them than necessarily intended by these technical standards but they still do their respective jobs. And I'm sure there's tons of neurodivergent vets, and vets with a variety of other disabilities. So we all know that having a disability accommodation for technical standards does not make you a bad vet, or bar you from becoming one to begin with. The question on the table is really whether non-disabled vets (or vets with a disability different from that of their students) who run education programs might try to claim otherwise. (Or admissions or student life staff if they're involved.) Anyway, this is a digression from the question of the thread, but in general the vagueness of disability law and technical standards, etc, means that a lot is left up for interpretation. However, I personally feel (based on past experiences) that if you can show that you have a track record of doing similar things, then you can probably force a USA school to let you graduate if they are trying to claim you don't meet the directly relevant technical standard (for example, if someone ran into a situation where their school was saying they cannot safely restrain animals, but that person can show they have hands on volunteer or vet assistant experience restraining animals in a veterinary setting, it's unlikely that the school will win a court case - but you'd have to have the money to take them to court which most people don't). The harder issue is the things covered by technical standards that no one has experience with until they are a vet (like doing surgery - vet assistants by definition cannot do surgery so work experience prior to vet school wouldn't likely help any in a situation where a school was trying to say someone's lack of meeting technical standards means they can't do surgery).

This isn't the only field that has technical standards like this, BTW. When I was fresh out of college I worked as a substitute teacher for awhile and in California everyone who wants to be a sub has to have a doctor fill out a form saying they meet basic medical requirements. TBH I don't think my doctor even examined me for that. I think she just went down the list on the form and asked me if I met them and then signed it. Maybe I remember wrong, and obviously she also had my medical history in general in the computer to reference.
 
Genuinely, I've got nothing else. I recognize I lost my cool in a different forum, and while that was wrong and I do apologize, I have no idea how else to help you. All of this information is relevant to your previously voiced concerns, and would impact your decision as a UK applicant. I am disabled. I have experience at the undergraduate and professional level with disability accommodations, including working four years in an accommodations office at a higher education institution. Please, if you're going to ask a public forum for advice, take it. Even if you decide that advice isn't relevant, people are taking time out of their day, their studies, and their work to give you first hand experience.

I'm tapping out at this point to maintain my own sanity and professionalism. I strongly recommend you read back through this whole response and try to see if you can figure out why you're feeling combative and defensive about most responses.

I hope others have advice for you that fits what you're looking for, and good luck during whatever cycle you apply.
 
This is true. And most veterinary schools in the UK require international students to pass a health screening to be able to attend. I had fallen in love with University of Edinburgh but decided not to apply due to the wording of their "disabled applicant" document. If you want to read the whole thing, this is the link:


Some snapshots:
"...a history of mental illness could be grounds for not admitting an applicant onto the course where they could be a danger to themselves." (I'd like to know who decides this)
"[On anorexia] Veterinary students must develop a capacity for self-audit and a person who is unable to admit to a condition such as severe anorexia and accept the necessary treatment would not meet this competence."
"[On immunosuppression and exposure to pathogenic organisms] It may therefore not be in their best interest to be admitted to the course. Admissions staff will need to take further medical advice on a case-by-case basis."

Now, this isn't to say that some serious mental health or physical conditions might preclude someone from going to vet school. Nor is it to say that conditions aren't complex and vary by individual. But as someone with a history of treatment resistant depression and is on immunosuppressants for rheumatoid arthritis, I felt like I'd be making a donation to Edinburgh by applying. I did apply to Glasgow, but later found out they require a similar health screening, as does RVC I believe. I don't know how strict they are about this at the admissions level, but they're clearly not going above and beyond to be accommodating.

This is super real in many countries. I got denied from Massey over a mental health diagnosis even though it's well controlled.
 
I'm tapping out at this point to maintain my own sanity and professionalism. I strongly recommend you read back through this whole response and try to see if you can figure out why you're feeling combative and defensive about most responses.
I was genuinely not feeling combative, defensive, or anything else. I was just explaining things I've seen happen that make me feel no less worried about the disability discrimination laws in the UK than in the USA or vice versa.
 
Anyway, in this thread I just would like to hear from anyone who is a US citizen and went to vet school in the UK about what the real cost of attendance looks like. If no one who uses this forum did that/sees this post, then oh well.
 
Hi everyone! I wanted to ask on here if anyone has any idea of what the real cost of tuition would be for an International School (specific to the UK and AVMA Accredited Schools)? I am from the US and this is my 2nd cycle. I happily got accepted to the University of Bristol for their Accelerated Graduate Entry Vet Program, yet am also waiting to hear back from a few other UK schools along with WesternU. WesternU is the closest school to me and my most ideal location since it is close to home for me, yet the price tag on that school makes me worried about my future student debt. From what I see, there is at least a +$100,000 tuition difference between WesternU and the Uni of Bristol but want to get more information from people who did the International schooling or planning to do so if you think moving to the UK would help that price tag difference? Also if any current veterinarians who are International Graduates and practice in the US, how coming back to the US was and if your degree title makes any difference for you currently (DVM vs BVSc)?
 
From what I see, there is at least a +$100,000 tuition difference between WesternU and the Uni of Bristol

Have you used the VIN debt calculator?

how coming back to the US was and if your degree title makes any difference for you currently (DVM vs BVSc)?

Do you mean from a practicing perspective? Cause it doesn't make a difference.
 
Have you used the VIN debt calculator?



Do you mean from a practicing perspective? Cause it doesn't make a difference.
I saw you posted the VIN website earlier in this forum and I was using their Cost of Education Toolkit but it showcases the US schools and Carribean schools, no other international schools. I might have to look further on their site to see if I can find info for the University of Bristol.

I am glad to hear that international vets wouldn't have issues here with the title difference. I know the BVSc translates here the same as a DVM but if it's ever for whatever reason became an issue for someone. It might just be my family psyching me out thinking it could cause some issue 🤷‍♀️😅
 
From a client perspective, they have no idea what the difference is. They don't care cause they understand you can't practice without a license and can't get a license without the degree. Honestly, clients don't understand what goes into becoming a vet. So it doesn't matter to them.

Also doesn't matter to hiring managers. You have the degree, you can get a license.
 
This is true. And most veterinary schools in the UK require international students to pass a health screening to be able to attend. I had fallen in love with University of Edinburgh but decided not to apply due to the wording of their "disabled applicant" document. If you want to read the whole thing, this is the link:


Some snapshots:
"...a history of mental illness could be grounds for not admitting an applicant onto the course where they could be a danger to themselves." (I'd like to know who decides this)
"[On anorexia] Veterinary students must develop a capacity for self-audit and a person who is unable to admit to a condition such as severe anorexia and accept the necessary treatment would not meet this competence."
"[On immunosuppression and exposure to pathogenic organisms] It may therefore not be in their best interest to be admitted to the course. Admissions staff will need to take further medical advice on a case-by-case basis."

Now, this isn't to say that some serious mental health or physical conditions might preclude someone from going to vet school. Nor is it to say that conditions aren't complex and vary by individual. But as someone with a history of treatment resistant depression and is on immunosuppressants for rheumatoid arthritis, I felt like I'd be making a donation to Edinburgh by applying. I did apply to Glasgow, but later found out they require a similar health screening, as does RVC I believe. I don't know how strict they are about this at the admissions level, but they're clearly not going above and beyond to be accommodating.
As a USA citizen Edinburgh 2024 grad, I had lots of people in my class with different levels of physical and mental disabilities who were able to get through the program just fine with many of them needing to be on medications as well. I feel like the school did a good job of accommodating every student but If you want to reach out to me I can go into more detail as well. I feel like it depends on where in the UK but Edinburgh as a city was pretty accommodating at least the vet school. It also depends on whether the disability is physical or mental or both and the severity because those cobblestone streets are a struggle for able-bodied people as well at times.
 

I didn't notice if it had been posted but here's the link to the Student Debt calculator tool on VIN, which is primarily the tool I used to estimate my COA for all of my school choices. Bear in mind that depending on where/when you're applying, your school may not be on this list.
 
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