How deep do most programs go down their rank list

[PCN]

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If a program interviews 200 people and ranks all of them, how deep do they go down their rank list during the match? Is there a big discrepancy between the top programs, and the less competitive ones? Do the top programs match like the top 50 ranked candidates for 30 spots versus less competitive programs go deep into the 100s? I am obviously guessing on these numbers. I am just trying to figure out my chances. If I rank a program number one, on the average how many people can be ranked ahead of me for me to still have a good chance of getting in.

I don't know if anyone actually knows an answer to this question, I am just looking for speculation, I guess

PCN

 

[med1234]

i think it obviously depends on the program...
if you were to take one of the top 3 programs (however you want to define that) and say that each one is about 25 people in size, they might go down as far as 50. the people interviewing at mgh are probably also looking at bwh, etc... that being said, i'm sure that programs do their best to find out who really wants to go to a specific place (hence, the value of a pd phone call) so they don't have to go down their list too far.

if you're talking the next tier, say a cornell for example, they'll probably lose some people to columbia, some people to the better boston programs, some to penn, hopkins, etc... but the same will be true for any of the others. basically, i think that once you get an interview, your chances are actually pretty good of getting in because a lot of the same people are interviewing at the same places and not everyone will rank a place as high as you (unless it's one of those really top 3 programs). People are also looking at different things in a program, have different priorities, may want to stay in a particular geographic area, but still applying broadly to be safe, or have a sig. other in a specific city. I think this explains why when we were all applying to med school, almost every place advertised that their matches were great with >85% match rates for "top 3 choices." That's because you can't rank a place (or at least it wouldn't make sense to) without interviewing there.

That's just my opinion - i have no idea how valid it is. someone else chime in.

 

[PCN]

I am specifically looking at the top midwest programs like umich, uchicago, northwestern, cwru...

 

[andreg]

The comment "interviews 200 people and ranks all of them" is NOT correct.

"Ranked/Interviewed" ratio is in the range 10% - 30%.

That means there is still over 50% weeding-out, AFTER the interviews.

We personally know a Detroit program, one year ranking only (2) candidates per opening, hence NOT completely matching.
Next year they ranked (3) candidates per opening, and completely matched.

 

[PCN]

You sound like you know what you are talking about. However, I have to say that a ranked/interviewed ratio of 10% would be crazy. At least for IM. Think about it, even if you interview 300 people, to rank 10% would be ranking 30 people for about ? 30 spots. I am wondering if you are talking about other subspecialties, like derm or ent where they only take like 4 people. Do you really think for IM this ratio is even as low as 30%, i would imagine there be a lot of people unmatched.

May I ask which detroit program has ranked 3 candidates per spot?

also in this program, what was the total spots, and interviews, and what was their lowest ranked cadidate that matched (this is actually what I am mostly interested in).

thanks pcn

The comment "interviews 200 people and ranks all of them" is NOT correct.

"Ranked/Interviewed" ratio is in the range 10% - 30%.

That means there is still over 50% weeding-out, AFTER the interviews.

We personally know a Detroit program, one year ranking only (2) candidates per opening, hence NOT completely matching.
Next year they ranked (3) candidates per opening, and completely matched.

 

[med1234]

I would have to agree - programs don't rank everyone they interview. UCLA a few years back had 3 unfilled spots for scramble which is kinda crazy since it's one of the top california programs. i guess the overestimated how much people wanted to go there.

I think 10% is too low as well - it's probably more around 30-40% on avg. with maybe 25%ish for a really competivitive place.
You really don't hear about people getting their 8th choice or 10th choice for the IM match. You usually hear that you'll get one of your top 3 or 4 ranks. It doesn't add up if each program is only ranking 1 in 10.

 

[PCN]

great info,

3 questions.

1. where did you get this info.

2. if the program ranks you how likely are you to match if you ranked them number 1. If it is very likely, I guess the key would be to impress the program enough so that they rank you and not really worry about where. Also, what kind of indication can you get if you are going to get ranked or not. Is it worth emailing PD at the end of Jan and telling him you are very interested in the program and was wondering if they are still interested in you.

3. Also, do you guys think doing a second look will increase the chances of getting into a program.

I would have to agree - programs don't rank everyone they interview. UCLA a few years back had 3 unfilled spots for scramble which is kinda crazy since it's one of the top california programs. i guess the overestimated how much people wanted to go there.

I think 10% is too low as well - it's probably more around 30-40% on avg. with maybe 25%ish for a really competivitive place.
You really don't hear about people getting their 8th choice or 10th choice for the IM match. You usually hear that you'll get one of your top 3 or 4 ranks. It doesn't add up if each program is only ranking 1 in 10.

 

[med1234]

the number of unfilled spots is public, no secret there.
also, with regards to number of match spots, it's not just about getting ranked. if a program only goes down to their 50th spot, it won't make a difference if they ranked 51 people or 200 people.

with second look, a lot of programs will make their rank list within days of their last interview date but well before rank lists are due, so by that point, there's definitely no impact. to visit beforehand, i'm not sure - probably couldn't hurt, but i don't how much it would help.

many programs will also contact you after the interviews are done, hinting their interest in you. i know that at my school, there were some people that got one letter from a particular program, some people got better sounding letters from the same program, and others didn't get anything.

ranking a program high will have no impact on you unless they rank you high as well. that being said, the match is supposed to be to the applicant's advantage so that if two programs rank a person high, the applicant will match at the program that he/she ranks higher. So to address your question... If a program has 30 spot and they rank you in the first 30 and you rank them first, you'll match there. If they end up going down to their 50th spot and you're ranked 51, you won't match there no matter what you rank them.

great info,

3 questions.

1. where did you get this info.

2. if the program ranks you how likely are you to match if you ranked them number 1. If it is very likely, I guess the key would be to impress the program enough so that they rank you and not really worry about where. Also, what kind of indication can you get if you are going to get ranked or not. Is it worth emailing PD at the end of Jan and telling him you are very interested in the program and was wondering if they are still interested in you.

3. Also, do you guys think doing a second look will increase the chances of getting into a program.

 

[somdave2005]

Med1234, I was under the impression that second looks help a lot in showing interest in the program and increasing your chances there. People correct me if I'm wrong.

the number of unfilled spots is public, no secret there.
also, with regards to number of match spots, it's not just about getting ranked. if a program only goes down to their 50th spot, it won't make a difference if they ranked 51 people or 200 people.

with second look, a lot of programs will make their rank list within days of their last interview date but well before rank lists are due, so by that point, there's definitely no impact. to visit beforehand, i'm not sure - probably couldn't hurt, but i don't how much it would help.

many programs will also contact you after the interviews are done, hinting their interest in you. i know that at my school, there were some people that got one letter from a particular program, some people got better sounding letters from the same program, and others didn't get anything.

ranking a program high will have no impact on you unless they rank you high as well. that being said, the match is supposed to be to the applicant's advantage so that if two programs rank a person high, the applicant will match at the program that he/she ranks higher. So to address your question... If a program has 30 spot and they rank you in the first 30 and you rank them first, you'll match there. If they end up going down to their 50th spot and you're ranked 51, you won't match there no matter what you rank them.

 

[med1234]

i'm not disputing that it helps if you visit before the rank lists are established -but i can definitively say that some programs make their rank lists shortly after the last interview date, so any visits by that point would probably have little impact. I don't think that a place would necessarily say, hey, this person visited but this person didn't so he should be ranked higher... but it never hurts to express interest and get another chance to show your face and talk to people shortly before their about to put their list together, especially if you interviewed early. That being said, don't visit a place a week before your rank list is due because that's not going to have much of an impact. I guess the take home message is that if you visit a place, make sure it's done before they've made their lists.

Med1234, I was under the impression that second looks help a lot in showing interest in the program and increasing your chances there. People correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[somdave2005]

That makes sense...thanks. I'll do second visits before interview season ends.

i'm not disputing that it helps if you visit before the rank lists are established -but i can definitively say that some programs make their rank lists shortly after the last interview date, so any visits by that point would probably have little impact. I don't think that a place would necessarily say, hey, this person visited but this person didn't so he should be ranked higher... but it never hurts to express interest and get another chance to show your face and talk to people shortly before their about to put their list together, especially if you interviewed early. That being said, don't visit a place a week before your rank list is due because that's not going to have much of an impact. I guess the take home message is that if you visit a place, make sure it's done before they've made their lists.