How do DOs do matching for specialties like OB, onco, neuro or surg?

[HeronsBeak]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Hi all,

I am in the DO/carib boat for applying next cycle and would prefer to stay in the US. I will be applying to my state MD schools as well but they are stretching my stats. I am wondering about the DO specific match for those who only take the COMLEX or those who take the USMLE and enter both matches. How much better are your chances of entering a residency in a specialty like those listed in the title over the carib route? I like that DO has its own match system, but if there are very few specialty matches in it, then the advantage for me is moot, as I think I am most interested in either OB, oncology, or neuro. I don't want to start a fight about MD vs DO vs. carib MD, just want to know what the match for DOs is like in specialties.

Thanks everyone!

 

[MedPR]

I don't know about oncology or surgery, but neuro and OB are not very competitive so you will be fine.

 

[circulus vitios]

Look for yourself, most schools post the match list on their website. Some schools, like PCOM, have consistently better match lists. Some schools are 90% FM & IM.

 

[drizzt3117]

You'll be fine for those specialties; you have to do another residency before onc but usually it's IM.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

i think you are slightly confused. you have to take the comlex. you CAN take the usmle. also the DO match is before the MD match, so unless you don't match in the DO match, you won't enter both matches. but they aren't competitive for DO and very tough for Caribbean.

 

[LifeTake2]

Hi all,

I am in the DO/carib boat for applying next cycle ....

I got distracted after this line as you seem a bit confused.

A DO school means you get to be a doctor and practice in the US.

Carib means you generate TONS of debt and have a statistically strong chance of never practicing medicine in the US.

Make sure you understand this before you go another day down this path.

 

[user3]

It is hard to predict how competitive all these specialties will be. By 2017, US MD grads will be taking about 75% of ACGME residencies, so it is not out of the question for everything but ACGME PC to become a dog fight for independent (DO) applicants.

Caribbean as an option in this day and age should be OUT OF THE QUESTION. It will be competitive enough as a DO to begin with.

 

[MedPR]

It is hard to predict how competitive all these specialties will be. By 2017, US MD grads will be taking about 75% of ACGME residencies, so it is not out of the question for everything but ACGME PC to become a dog fight for independent (DO) applicants.

Caribbean as an option in this day and age should be OUT OF THE QUESTION. It will be competitive enough as a DO to begin with.

I highly doubt OB and Neuro will go from uncompetitive to "dog fight" in 5 years.

 

[COMedic2Doc]

The concern of what are my residency chances as a pre-med is a fruitless discussion, period. You have two years of medical school which will make all of your undergrad classes look like a joke. Then you have the COMLEX as a DO student to get through and this test starts to determine your matching results (you might think the MCAT is tough, the COMLEX will laugh in your face and steal your lunch as far as being a challenging exam). After all of this, you have two years of clinical rotations which for many pre-meds is your first time even managing a patient, being exposed to the medical field beyond maybe 200 hours of shadowing experience, and dealing with a multiple patient load (not to mention the fun stuff of screwed up schedules in terms of the normal working world). Many students see their original field changed many times during this time period, so again discussing residency right now is fruitless. Yes having a general idea of what field to go into is a good angle of attack, but until you, personally, really experience the field you are interested in you won't really know if you're even on the right track. I would concentrate on gaining admission into medical school (MD or DO) before you even consider Residency, just my .02.

Also, as stated numerous times within these forums a US based school is wayyyyy smarter both in terms of success and financial commitment.

 

[dntke1518]

The concern of what are my residency chances as a pre-med is a fruitless discussion, period.

Yes having a general idea of what field to go into is a good angle of attack, but until you, personally, really experience the field you are interested in you won't really know if you're even on the right track. I would concentrate on gaining admission into medical school (MD or DO) before you even consider Residency, just my .02.

Also, as stated numerous times within these forums a US based school is wayyyyy smarter both in terms of success and financial commitment.

:thumb up: :thumb up: Truth to all of this

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I highly doubt OB and Neuro will go from uncompetitive to "dog fight" in 5 years.

OB/Gyn, no, it's a dying specialty thanks to lawsuits and malpractice. Neuro and Psych however have a really good possibility of becoming extraordinarily competitive within the next 10 to 20 years as the baby boomers begin to turn senile, irritable, aggressive, start to show signs of motor issues, and dementia ( will probably be a disorder hitting millions since it is strongly correlated with diabetes, high cholesterol, diabetes, and any other cardiac disorders that the masses are afflictive with). Not to mention there's still the regular customers of depression, anxiety, and ADHD. Generally I wouldn't be surprised if psychiatry and neurology become a lot more sought after once demand cranks up and people realize that the work weeks are a lot shorter than other residencies like IM ( 40 for psych, 50 for Neuro, 60 for IM).

 

[Hemorrage]

I agree about the psych part. I've talked to a few psychiatrists and they've all told me that due to the severe shortage of psych specialists they often have a lot more say in what they get paid 😀

 

[MedPR]

OB/Gyn, no, it's a dying specialty thanks to lawsuits and malpractice. Neuro and Psych however have a really good possibility of becoming extraordinarily competitive within the next 10 to 20 years as the baby boomers begin to turn senile, irritable, aggressive, start to show signs of motor issues, and dementia ( will probably be a disorder hitting millions since it is strongly correlated with diabetes, high cholesterol, diabetes, and any other cardiac disorders that the masses are afflictive with). Not to mention there's still the regular customers of depression, anxiety, and ADHD. Generally I wouldn't be surprised if psychiatry and neurology become a lot more sought after once demand cranks up and people realize that the work weeks are a lot shorter than other residencies like IM ( 40 for psych, 50 for Neuro, 60 for IM).

Totally on the same page regarding baby boomers. Geriatrics, PM&R, and probably even Ortho are going to be rolling in the dough (even moreso than usual for ortho) as the boomers continue aging.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Totally on the same page regarding baby boomers. Geriatrics, PM&R, and probably even Ortho are going to be rolling in the dough (even moreso than usual for ortho) as the boomers continue aging.

I agree, the baby boomers are going to bring in a lot of work for future physicians.

 

[NeuroLAX]

Totally on the same page regarding baby boomers. Geriatrics, PM&R, and probably even Ortho are going to be rolling in the dough (even moreso than usual for ortho) as the boomers continue aging.

I would think gastroenterology as well. Gotta remember to get that colonoscopy.

 

[drizzt3117]

No way neuro gets more competitive that fast. As it is, a huge portion of the residents are FMGs even at good academic institutions.

OB/Gyn, no, it's a dying specialty thanks to lawsuits and malpractice. Neuro and Psych however have a really good possibility of becoming extraordinarily competitive within the next 10 to 20 years as the baby boomers begin to turn senile, irritable, aggressive, start to show signs of motor issues, and dementia ( will probably be a disorder hitting millions since it is strongly correlated with diabetes, high cholesterol, diabetes, and any other cardiac disorders that the masses are afflictive with). Not to mention there's still the regular customers of depression, anxiety, and ADHD. Generally I wouldn't be surprised if psychiatry and neurology become a lot more sought after once demand cranks up and people realize that the work weeks are a lot shorter than other residencies like IM ( 40 for psych, 50 for Neuro, 60 for IM).

 

[DrBowtie]

Totally on the same page regarding baby boomers. Geriatrics, PM&R, and probably even Ortho are going to be rolling in the dough (even moreso than usual for ortho) as the boomers continue aging.

The amount of work really doesn't determine the dough. It's the reimbursement of your top 5-10 CPT codes.

 

[HeronsBeak]

Ok, by the way I am far more interested in DO schools than carib right now, as many of you have stated I have looked up the stats on what % of matriculants actually even make it to the test date and they are not promising. I guess I had the wrong impression of the COMLEX/USMLE thing, as I just assumed most students took both as they cover pretty much the same material. Nice to know the DO match takes almost everyone. I realize picking a specialty right now is like having a girlfriend in grade school and expecting to be married to that person 20 years later, was just curious on that front. Hopefully going to be doing some research in a cancer lab this fall, so will get to see that component of onco. Thanks everyone for posting, though, it makes me feel better about the D.O. path and I do like the holistic approach, even though I am not sure I buy into the OMT therapy.

 

[MedPR]

The amount of work really doesn't determine the dough. It's the reimbursement of your top 5-10 CPT codes.

But doesn't 15 reimbursements yield more than 13 reimbursements? 😕

 

[DrBowtie]

But doesn't 15 reimbursements yield more than 13 reimbursements? 😕

If you're comparing apples to apples. But when you're comparing apples (geriatric E&Ms) to oranges (cardiac caths), you're never able to eat enough apples to catch up to the guy eating oranges.

The specialties you mention are non-competitive except for ortho because their pay isn't as good. Adding more patients only will decrease your lifestyle while minimally increasing your income.

The only specialty of those aside from ortho that I think has upside potential is neuro, because right now there is very little they can do right now for many of their diseases they treat.

 

[MedPR]

If you're comparing apples to apples. But when you're comparing apples (geriatric E&Ms) to oranges (cardiac caths), you're never able to eat enough apples to catch up to the guy eating oranges.

The specialties you mention are non-competitive except for ortho because their pay isn't as good. Adding more patients only will decrease your lifestyle while minimally increasing your income.

The only specialty of those aside from ortho that I think has upside potential is neuro, because right now there is very little they can do right now for many of their diseases they treat.

Ah, yea I was moreso talking about ortho. I see your point about the other specialties though.

I had an undergrad Theology teacher who thought Geriatrics was the most important specialty. He was in his 60s and had a lot of health problems. Maybe he's a little biased 😉 He had a brilliant mind for healthcare ethics though. Learned a lot from him.

 

[Mr Kenobi]

Hi all,

I am in the DO/carib boat

sigh*

 

[dolomite16]

What about neurosurg?

 

[MedPR]

What about neurosurg?

Neurosurg is arguably the most competitive specialty out there. It's hard enough for MD.

 

[Ost3oclast]

What about neurosurg?

Probably have a better chance going pediatric cardiothoracic surgery.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

What about neurosurg?

Very few people try for it actually. I think there were positions unmatched last year in the AOA tbh. Idk about Neurosurgery on the ACGME side though.

 

[MedPR]

Very few people try for it actually. I think there were positions unmatched last year in the AOA tbh. Idk about Neurosurgery on the ACGME side though.

Very interesting if true!

 

[Ost3oclast]

Very few people try for it actually. I think there were positions unmatched last year in the AOA tbh. Idk about Neurosurgery on the ACGME side though.

Is it the lifestyle? Risk involved?

 

[MedPR]

Is it the lifestyle? Risk involved?

I'd say lifestyle has a lot to do with it.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Is it the lifestyle? Risk involved?

7 years of training of 80 hour weeks followed by a job that is 55-70 hours a week. You really need to love your job and be willing to sacrifice a lot for it.

 

[LawlasaurusRex]

We had 2 students from WesternU match into AOA neurosurgery at Arrowhead Regional Medical Center. If that is a field you're very interested in, Western is a pretty good school to be at to get your foot in the door at that hospital which has it's own neurosurgery residency. Students can be placed at Arrowhead for rotations and we have many doctors from there who come teach as guest lecturers (specifically, 2 neurosurgeons).

 

[MedPR]

We had 2 students from WesternU match into AOA neurosurgery at Arrowhead Regional Medical Center. If that is a field you're very interested in, Western is a pretty good school to be at to get your foot in the door at that hospital which has it's own neurosurgery residency. Students can be placed at Arrowhead for rotations and we have many doctors from there who come teach as guest lecturers (specifically, 2 neurosurgeons).

Which WesternU cmapus is that?

 

[nicolemsm]

Which WesternU cmapus is that?

Pomona.

 

[DrBowtie]

7 years of training of 88 hour weeks followed by a job that is 55-70 hours a week. You really need to love your job and be willing to sacrifice a lot for it.

Fixed.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

Which WesternU cmapus is that?

I'd put my money on Pomona's campus since ARMC is one of Pomona's main teaching hospitals.

 

[MedPR]

Pomona.

I'd put my money on Pomona's campus since ARMC is one of Pomona's main teaching hospitals.

Great, thank you!

 

[nicolemsm]

Great, thank you!

A PM&R doc I currently shadow/that's mentoring me keeps pushing me towards Western...

He graduated from a residency at Stanford and fully gives Western credit for their superior rotations.

 

[MedPR]

A PM&R doc I currently shadow/that's mentoring me keeps pushing me towards Western...

He graduated from a residency at Stanford and fully gives Western credit for their superior rotations.

You know, I applied to Western (Pomona) on a whim, but I've heard nothing but great things about the school. I know (think...?) it's not regarded as one of the top DO schools, but it's creeping up to the top of my list.

 

[pattr]

You know, I applied to Western (Pomona) on a whim, but I've heard nothing but great things about the school. I know (think...?) it's not regarded as one of the top DO schools, but it's creeping up to the top of my list.

Yes, Western is a solid program with consistently impressive match results. Arrowhead is a major teaching hospital with residency programs in FM, IM, EM, OB/GYN, Psychiatry, General Surgery, Neurosurgery, and Ophthalmology, a couple of which are AOA-ACGME dually accredited (FM and Gen-Surg I believe). I am rotating there now for third year, so if anyone has any specific questions about rotations at Arrowhead I can try to answer.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

Yes, Western is a solid program with consistently impressive match results. Arrowhead is a major teaching hospital with residency programs in FM, IM, EM, OB/GYN, Psychiatry, General Surgery, Neurosurgery, and Ophthalmology, a couple of which are AOA-ACGME dually accredited (FM and Gen-Surg I believe). I am rotating there now for third year, so if anyone has any specific questions about rotations at Arrowhead I can try to answer.

Do you know if the gen surg residency is dually accredited or if it's just two separate programs. I would think it would be dually accredited, but from the website descriptions, it seems both have slightly different hospital affiliations.

 

[dudeliness]

7 years of training of 80 hour weeks followed by a job that is 55-70 hours a week. You really need to love your job and be willing to sacrifice a lot for it.

What about general surgery? Is it pretty similar to this for time commitment, just less years of residency?

 

[LawlasaurusRex]

You know, I applied to Western (Pomona) on a whim, but I've heard nothing but great things about the school. I know (think...?) it's not regarded as one of the top DO schools, but it's creeping up to the top of my list.

"Top" DO school is subjective. Everyone has their opinion (though there are certain favorites e.g. DMU). It really depends on your end-goal. If your goal is to end up in California for residency, then WesternU's name may carry more weight than an Eastcoast program.

 

[MedPR]

"Top" DO school is subjective. Everyone has their opinion (though there are certain favorites e.g. DMU). It really depends on your end-goal. If your goal is to end up in California for residency, then WesternU's name may carry more weight than an Eastcoast program.

My end goal right now is to just get in 🙂

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

"Top" DO school is subjective. Everyone has their opinion (though there are certain favorites e.g. DMU). It really depends on your end-goal. If your goal is to end up in California for residency, then WesternU's name may carry more weight than an Eastcoast program.

In reality there is a bit of subjectiveness, but overall there's no denying that DO schools can be broken up into three categories, top, mid, and low. With schools like DMU being top, LMU being a Mid, and RVU or PNWU being a low.

 

[HooliganSnail]

Ok, by the way I am far more interested in DO schools than carib right now, as many of you have stated I have looked up the stats on what % of matriculants actually even make it to the test date and they are not promising. I guess I had the wrong impression of the COMLEX/USMLE thing, as I just assumed most students took both as they cover pretty much the same material. Nice to know the DO match takes almost everyone. I realize picking a specialty right now is like having a girlfriend in grade school and expecting to be married to that person 20 years later, was just curious on that front. Hopefully going to be doing some research in a cancer lab this fall, so will get to see that component of onco. Thanks everyone for posting, though, it makes me feel better about the D.O. path and I do like the holistic approach, even though I am not sure I buy into the OMT therapy.

Wrong. The DO match does not take everyone, it takes about half of the DO's. It depends on what school you go to . If you are in Michigan and go to MSU then yest they all match. Not true in other states

 

[HooliganSnail]

"Top" DO school is subjective. Everyone has their opinion (though there are certain favorites e.g. DMU). It really depends on your end-goal. If your goal is to end up in California for residency, then WesternU's name may carry more weight than an Eastcoast program.

No its not all that subjective. MSUCOM is without a doubt the best DO school in the country. It ranks top 10% in primary care among all medical schools every year since the 80s. It's also even better because all of the DO residencies are in MI. Everyone else has to fight and claw, we rotate at the hospitals with the residency programs. Michigan is the only "surplus" state for residency programs.

 

[dudeliness]

No its not all that subjective. MSUCOM is without a doubt the best DO school in the country. It ranks top 10% in primary care among all medical schools every year since the 80s. It's also even better because all of the DO residencies are in MI. Everyone else has to fight and claw, we rotate at the hospitals with the residency programs. Michigan is the only "surplus" state for residency programs.

Too true, but I hate the secondary and the tuition costs!!!

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

What about general surgery? Is it pretty similar to this for time commitment, just less years of residency?

It's probably around 80hours, but 5 years. Who knows, maybe the 5th year is chill like the 4th year of Med school.

 

[Mr Kenobi]

My end goal right now is to just get in 🙂

👍

 

[DrBowtie]

No its not all that subjective. MSUCOM is without a doubt the best DO school in the country. It ranks top 10% in primary care among all medical schools every year since the 80s. It's also even better because all of the DO residencies are in MI. Everyone else has to fight and claw, we rotate at the hospitals with the residency programs. Michigan is the only "surplus" state for residency programs.

When you realize that 30% of the primary care rankings is based upon the % of students matching in primary care, you'll be embarrassed to brag about the ranking.

Congrats! Our students mostly match into noncompetitive specialties!

As a metric it doesn't take into account that it could be what people wanted to do, or what people fell back into after not being competitive for another specialty.