How do I decide to accept a DO offer or try to reapply if I'm primarily interested in an MD program?

[deleted937918]

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I'm not exactly sure what specialty I want to go into, but my shadowing has me very interested in surgery. It is my understanding that DOs tend to become family physicians and have a harder time matching into other residencies. Because of that, I would like to become an MD. In my state, the DO schools have significantly lower average GPA/MCAT scores than the MD programs. I'm not sure if I should apply to DO schools. They would be easier to get into for me (because of the lower average GPA/MCAT), but I'm honestly not sure if I would accept admission to a DO program. I may just wait and apply for MD again in the next cycle. Obviously, there is no point in applying to DO schools if I won't accept them, but I like the idea of having a backup option.

I'm not saying that I have low statistics or that I would never attend a DO school. I have a 4.0 GPA am somewhat confident that I will get a competitive score on the MCAT. I also have significant volunteering, shadowing, and other experience. I'm also not saying that I would never attend a DO school. I'm mainly asking if the differences in DO and MD programs are so small that it doesn't really matter which I attend.

Is my understanding of the disadvantages of a DO program correct? How can I make a decision to just wait to reapply to MD or apply for and accept a DO program?

Note: I am not trying to be condescending to anyone who wants to become a DO. I know that they are still extremely competitive programs filled with highly intelligent people. I just am leaning toward a specialty and thus think that being an MD would be best for me.

 

[82Scout]

don't settle then..... Improve your application and apply MD if that is what you want.

Edit: side note in terms of your future goals, its gonna be totally dependent on you as an individual moreso than the abbreviation from your degree. Achievable through both paths for the right individual, maybe slightly more difficult as a DO.

 

[A girl has no name]

I'm not exactly sure what specialty I want to go into, but my shadowing has me very interested in surgery. It is my understanding that DOs tend to become family physicians and have a harder time matching into other residencies. Because of that, I would like to become an MD. In my state, the DO schools have significantly lower average GPA/MCAT scores than the MD programs. I'm not sure if I should apply to DO schools. They would be easier to get into for me (because of the lower average GPA/MCAT), but I'm honestly not sure if I would accept admission to a DO program. I may just wait and apply for MD again in the next cycle. Obviously, there is no point in applying to DO schools if I won't accept them, but I like the idea of having a backup option.

Is my understanding of the disadvantages of a DO program correct? How can I make a decision to just wait to reapply to MD or apply for and accept a DO program?

Note: I am not trying to be condescending to anyone who wants to become a DO. I know that they are still extremely competitive programs filled with highly intelligent people. I just am leaning toward a specialty and thus think that being an MD would be best for me.

I think you answered your own question. If you would never attend a DO school, don't bother wasting the time and money to apply to DO schools. If becoming a doctor is more important to you than whether you attend an MD or DO school, then it would be worthwhile to apply to both and be willing to attend either.

 

[deleted1001426]

It’s a personal decision. Dos have a harder time marching into certain specialties but it’s not impossible. You alluded to the fact that you’re somewhat low stat so you might be in the position where you have to decide if your desire to obtain an MD overrides your desire to practice medicine

 

[deleted937918]

It’s a personal decision. Dos have a harder time marching into certain specialties but it’s not impossible. You alluded to the fact that you’re somewhat low stat so you might be in the position where you have to decide if your desire to obtain an MD overrides your desire to practice medicine

I wasn't trying to state that I was a low-stat applicant. I'm just saying that DO schools are easier to get into in my state. Because there is no guarantee ANY applicant will get into an MD program, I am considering applying to DO schools as a backup to my MD safety schools.

 

[deleted1001426]

I wasn't trying to state that I was a low-stat applicant. I'm just saying that DO schools are easier to get into in my state. Because there is no guarantee ANY applicant will get into an MD program, I am considering applying to DO schools as a backup to my MD safety schools.

there is no such thing as an "MD safety school". Throughout the cycle youll be rejected from schools that you thought you were guaranteed an interview to and interview at schools you were told you had no place applying to. Even if youre not low stat it doesnt change my initial point, apply DO in conjunction with MD if you want to move forward with your medical career sooner rather than later and dont if ypu wouldnt settle for anything other than an MD

 

[deleted937918]

there is no such thing as an "MD safety school". Throughout the cycle youll be rejected from schools that you thought you were guaranteed an interview to and interview at schools you were told you had no place applying to. Even if youre not low stat it doesnt change my initial point, apply DO in conjunction with MD if you want to move forward with your medical career sooner rather than later and dont if ypu wouldnt settle for anything other than an MD

Thank you for your perspective.

 

[Goro]

I'm not exactly sure what specialty I want to go into, but my shadowing has me very interested in surgery. It is my understanding that DOs tend to become family physicians and have a harder time matching into other residencies. Because of that, I would like to become an MD. In my state, the DO schools have significantly lower average GPA/MCAT scores than the MD programs. I'm not sure if I should apply to DO schools. They would be easier to get into for me (because of the lower average GPA/MCAT), but I'm honestly not sure if I would accept admission to a DO program. I may just wait and apply for MD again in the next cycle. Obviously, there is no point in applying to DO schools if I won't accept them, but I like the idea of having a backup option.

I'm not saying that I have low statistics or that I would never attend a DO school. I have a 4.0 GPA am somewhat confident that I will get a competitive score on the MCAT. I also have significant volunteering, shadowing, and other experience. I'm also not saying that I would never attend a DO school. I'm mainly asking if the differences in DO and MD programs are so small that it doesn't really matter which I attend.

Is my understanding of the disadvantages of a DO program correct? How can I make a decision to just wait to reapply to MD or apply for and accept a DO program?

Note: I am not trying to be condescending to anyone who wants to become a DO. I know that they are still extremely competitive programs filled with highly intelligent people. I just am leaning toward a specialty and thus think that being an MD would be best for me.

Without an MCAT score, any discussion of this is premature. Ditto if you have no accepts to MD + DO.

Once you have your score, then we can advice on where to apply.

 

[Goro]

1) If you havent applied yet and are interested in MD, then only apply MD. If you dont get in, you can reconsider options as a reapplicant
2) It always annoys me that the supposed best and the brightest, the premeds, base decisions on "I heard" or "its my understanding" rather than trying to find actual info. If there only was a way to search all the world's info at finger tips?

Active Physicians with a Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine (DO) Degree by Specialty, 2015
https://mk0nrmp3oyqui6wqfm.kinstacd...ults-and-Data-2019_04112019_final.pdf#page=16

Osteopaths as percent of all active physicians
4.2% general surgery
1.8% neurosurgery
5.2% Orthopedic surgery
1.4% Plastic Surgery
2.0% Thoracic Surgery
3.5% Vascular Surgery

Here is the data for 2017:

U.S. Physician Workforce Data Dashboard

The U.S. Physician Workforce Data Dashboard provides the most current data available about the physician workforce across specialties.

www.aamc.org

Interestingly, the numbers of DOs in these fields have grown by ~5-10% in the years between 2015 and 2017. Granted these are small numbers, but given that A) DO schools are expanding, and B) the AOA was NOT creating new residencies in these field, it shows that the numbers of DOs cracking into classic ACGME residencies are increasing. DO bias much? Maybe this is a confirmation bias, but it does seem to support my (and others') notions that DOs are slowly cracking doors open.

Sorry for the formatting

2015	2017
4.2% general surgery	4.4%​
1.8% neurosurgery	2​
5.2% Orthopedic surgery	5.5​
1.4% Plastic Surgery	1.7
2.0% Thoracic Surgery	2.2​
3.5% Vascular Surgery	4​

 

[KnightDoc]

I'm not exactly sure what specialty I want to go into, but my shadowing has me very interested in surgery. It is my understanding that DOs tend to become family physicians and have a harder time matching into other residencies. Because of that, I would like to become an MD. In my state, the DO schools have significantly lower average GPA/MCAT scores than the MD programs. I'm not sure if I should apply to DO schools. They would be easier to get into for me (because of the lower average GPA/MCAT), but I'm honestly not sure if I would accept admission to a DO program. I may just wait and apply for MD again in the next cycle. Obviously, there is no point in applying to DO schools if I won't accept them, but I like the idea of having a backup option.

I'm not saying that I have low statistics or that I would never attend a DO school. I have a 4.0 GPA am somewhat confident that I will get a competitive score on the MCAT. I also have significant volunteering, shadowing, and other experience. I'm also not saying that I would never attend a DO school. I'm mainly asking if the differences in DO and MD programs are so small that it doesn't really matter which I attend.

Is my understanding of the disadvantages of a DO program correct? How can I make a decision to just wait to reapply to MD or apply for and accept a DO program?

Note: I am not trying to be condescending to anyone who wants to become a DO. I know that they are still extremely competitive programs filled with highly intelligent people. I just am leaning toward a specialty and thus think that being an MD would be best for me.

What year are you? Is your 4.0 after one semester, or three years? Right now, you don't have to worry about stats, because you have the highest possible stats! 🙂 Also, you don't have an MCAT score, so you can't apply anywhere yet, and reapplying is therefore not a consideration. 🙂

DOs care about ECs, etc., as much as MDs, so that won't be a difference maker, but your MCAT will be. The more above 510 your MCAT is, the more you won't have to consider DO, and, the more below, the more you will. In the middle (probably around 508-512), you should probably apply to a mix of both, at which point you just have to pick your best options among your As. You are not incorrect; with very few exceptions, pick the MD over the DO if you have both choices.

Good luck!!! 🙂

 

[deleted937918]

What year are you? Is your 4.0 after one semester, or three years? Right now, you don't have to worry about stats, because you have the highest possible stats! 🙂 Also, you don't have an MCAT score, so you can't apply anywhere yet, and reapplying is therefore not a consideration. 🙂

DOs care about ECs, etc., as much as MDs, so that won't be a difference maker, but your MCAT will be. The more above 510 your MCAT is, the more you won't have to consider DO, and, the more below, the more you will. In the middle (probably around 508-512), you should probably apply to a mix of both, at which point you just have to pick your best options among your As. You are not incorrect; with very few exceptions, pick the MD over the DO if you have both choices.

Good luck!!! 🙂

My 4.0 GPA is after 4.5 years (2 dual enrollment in high school and 2.5 at an actual university).

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

but I'm honestly not sure if I would accept admission to a DO program.

Then don't apply.

If you can get into an MD school then go to an MD school. If you can't then go DO and work hard. It isn't impossible to become a DO surgeon.

 

[KnightDoc]

My 4.0 GPA is after 4.5 years (2 dual enrollment in high school and 2.5 at an actual university).

So, where are you in terms of graduating? If you are close, your GPA is no longer an issue (you are obviously in great shape!), and your competitiveness will come down to your ECs and MCAT.

Why did you start a thread about accepting a DO offer you don't have or reapplying for an MD when you haven't even applied yet, given you have the highest possible GPA after 4.5 years of UG????????

Also, while you tip toe around looking down on DO programs, you also shouldn't take an acceptance that you might turn down for granted, since yield protection Rs for candidates with 4.0 GPAs and decent MCAT scores are a real thing. 🙂

 

[Sleepingdoc]

You are so unsure about being a DO...You deserve the MD spot, not the DO spot... just let someone else have that DO spot.

 

[deleted937918]

So, where are you in terms of graduating? If you are close, your GPA is no longer an issue (you are obviously in great shape!), and your competitiveness will come down to your ECs and MCAT.

Why did you start a thread about accepting a DO offer you don't have or reapplying for an MD when you haven't even applied yet, given you have the highest possible GPA after 4.5 years of UG????????

Also, while you tip toe around looking down on DO programs, you also shouldn't take an acceptance that you might turn down for granted, since yield protection Rs for candidates with 4.0 GPAs and decent MCAT scores are a real thing. 🙂

I'm going to graduate in Spring 2021 (three semesters left). This will have been a total of 11 semesters of undergrad, which I did to explore many different avenues and interests. I was able to experience several different classes and extracurriculars that I wouldn't have been able to do without taking so long.

I guess that my thread was poorly worded. I meant to wonder if I should even bother applying for MD. Looking at where my practice MCAT scores and GPA place me, there is a very solid chance that I will be placed into an MD program my first admissions cycle. However, there is no guarantee, so I was considering applying for DO (which I'm very confident I would get into). My question should have been more to the effect of "how can I decide whether or not to apply to DO schools if I am leaning toward MD)".

I definitely know that there is no guarantee of getting into any program. I also don't look down on people that have gotten into DO programs. They're obviously further along than I am. I'm just stating that the numbers indicate that I would likely match with one.

Thank you for your feedback!

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

My question should have been more to the effect of "how can I decide whether or not to apply to DO schools if I am leaning toward MD)".

I definitely know that there is no guarantee of getting into any program. I also don't look down on people that have gotten into DO programs. They're obviously further along than I am. I'm just stating that the numbers indicate that I would likely match with one.

You literally said you wouldn't go if you got an acceptance, so there's your answer. No one will fault you for it, I'm a DO who will likely end up in a surgical field and definitely don't, it's true it's a harder road to surgery as a DO. Apply one cycle of MD only and if you don't get in then apply a second cycle of a mix of MD/DO and just go where you get in.

 

[Goro]

I guess that my thread was poorly worded. I meant to wonder if I should even bother applying for MD.

Only you can answer this question. Medicine is a calling, like being a policeman or a priest.

 

[deleted937918]

You literally said you wouldn't go if you got an acceptance, so there's your answer. No one will fault you for it, I'm a DO and definitely don't. Apply one cycle of MD only and if you don't get in then apply a second cycle of a mix of MD/DO and just go where you get in.

That's what I decided on doing. Thank you for your feedback.

 

[KnightDoc]

I'm going to graduate in Spring 2021 (three semesters left). This will have been a total of 11 semesters of undergrad, which I did to explore many different avenues and interests. I was able to experience several different classes and extracurriculars that I wouldn't have been able to do without taking so long.

I guess that my thread was poorly worded. I meant to wonder if I should even bother applying for MD. Looking at where my practice MCAT scores and GPA place me, there is a very solid chance that I will be placed into an MD program my first admissions cycle. However, there is no guarantee, so I was considering applying for DO (which I'm very confident I would get into). My question should have been more to the effect of "how can I decide whether or not to apply to DO schools if I am leaning toward MD)".

I definitely know that there is no guarantee of getting into any program. I also don't look down on people that have gotten into DO programs. They're obviously further along than I am. I'm just stating that the numbers indicate that I would likely match with one.

Thank you for your feedback!

Okay; that's a LITTLE more clear. The answer then is forget DO programs, unless you end up with a terrible MCAT score. Since DOs have a stigma, which is slowly fading, they have lower stats, but otherwise look for the same things as MDs. If you are unsuccessful applying to MDs with a 4.0 and a decent MCAT, whatever is wrong with your app won't be cured by applying DO.

 

[deleted937918]

Only you can answer this question. Medicine is a calling, like being a policeman or a priest.

I totally agree. I don't want to just look at the numbers. I also wanted some feedback based on the "feel" between two types of programs. There's really no amount of statistics or research that can provide the complete picture for such a complex decision.

 

[Darrow O'Lykos]

Here is the data for 2017:

U.S. Physician Workforce Data Dashboard

The U.S. Physician Workforce Data Dashboard provides the most current data available about the physician workforce across specialties.

www.aamc.org

Interestingly, the numbers of DOs in these fields have grown by ~5-10% in the years between 2015 and 2017. Granted these are small numbers, but given that A) DO schools are expanding, and B) the AOA was NOT creating new residencies in these field, it shows that the numbers of DOs cracking into classic ACGME residencies are increasing. DO bias much? Maybe this is a confirmation bias, but it does seem to support my (and others') notions that DOs are slowly cracking doors open.

Sorry for the formatting

2015	2017
4.2% general surgery	​ 4.4%​
1.8% neurosurgery	2​
5.2% Orthopedic surgery	​ 5.5​
1.4% Plastic Surgery	1.7
2.0% Thoracic Surgery	​ 2.2​
3.5% Vascular Surgery	​ 4​

Given the fact that DOs only make up ~10% of the licensed physicians in the USA, these numbers are actually pretty good, right? Yes, I get there are certain fields (particularly, several mentioned in this table) that are historically MD-biased, but one wouldn't expect any particular field to exceed 10% DOs other than Family Medicine and OBGYN, right?

 

[Goro]

Given the fact that DOs only make up ~10% of the licensed physicians in the USA, these numbers are actually pretty good, right? Yes, I get there are certain fields (particularly, several mentioned in this table) that are historically MD-biased, but one wouldn't expect any particular field to exceed 10% DOs other than Family Medicine and OBGYN, right?

I think the numbers are actually quite amazing!