How do I even start looking for post-bacc programs?

[Surgeon Shen]

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I posted here some time ago, but now I'm seriously wondering how I can start looking for a post-bacc program.

I tried to contact two colleges (I won't name them) but the email responses I got back were not really helpful.

I do not have a science background as my major dabbles in computing. The only science classes I had to take were astronomy and geology.

I read stories of how people who majored in everything from journalism, arts, or anything non science related were able to do post-bacc programs and admit into medical school.

I am currently 21 years old, and I have another year to go until I graduate. I want to get to know more about post-bacc programs, and here are my questions:

What are the requirements for a post-bacc program? Is it true non-science people can successfully apply to them?

What do I need to even apply? Do I have to take the GRE?

Please let me know!

 

[betterlate]

The first place for you to start is the postbacc FAQ here: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=114425 That will answer some of your more general questions about postbacc programs.

I'd also strongly recommend meeting with the premed adviser at your college or university. That person will most likely know about individual postbacc programs will be in a position to talk to you about the process of applying to postbacc programs and, eventually, medical school.

Having done that, you will be in a position to search this forum for posts about more specific topics or programs.

Best of luck!

 

[kkw002]

Check out the AAMC site for some post bac programs and choose "career changers". Each program will provide more information about requirements and what you need to apply. Yes, non-science majors can successfully get accepted to these programs if you meet the requirements. Good luck.

https://services.aamc.org/postbac/

 

[NJD519]

I posted here some time ago, but now I'm seriously wondering how I can start looking for a post-bacc program.

I tried to contact two colleges (I won't name them) but the email responses I got back were not really helpful.

I do not have a science background as my major dabbles in computing. The only science classes I had to take were astronomy and geology.

I read stories of how people who majored in everything from journalism, arts, or anything non science related were able to do post-bacc programs and admit into medical school.

I am currently 21 years old, and I have another year to go until I graduate. I want to get to know more about post-bacc programs, and here are my questions:

What are the requirements for a post-bacc program? Is it true non-science people can successfully apply to them?

What do I need to even apply? Do I have to take the GRE?

Please let me know!

Hey,

Where are you from? How serious are you about medical school? What is your current GPA? What have you done for extra curricular activities? What is your blood type? Haha. Just trying to gauge where you are at right now to see what your best options are.

Yes non-science people can 'successfully' apply to post-bacc programs (you can apply to anything, lol). But get into them as well. Although given these questions, I feel you have not browsed around enough on these forums. Take a few hours a day--yes, a few hours--and browse everything that interests you. If you do this, you will know exactly what you need to do!

This website is PUURRFECT for finding out where to start looking for post-bacc programs. 🙂

 

[Surgeon Shen]

Hey,

Where are you from? How serious are you about medical school? What is your current GPA? What have you done for extra curricular activities?

I'm from NJ and I'm quite serious about doing something after my bachelor's.

Currenly I have 3 plans and I plan on pursuing one of them depending on various factors:

1. MS in IS or CS
2. Law school
3. Med school

I'm taking the October LSAT, so depending on that we'll see how that goes. Would love to do something related to IP

My GPA is only 3.2. My first year of college was riddled with medical issues, and my GPA for that year was a 2.1. I also failed a class that year because I missed a midterm lol... also got appendicitis... so what the hell!

I've gotten better grades since then (also didn't happen to miss my midterms and such, since I was able bodied and able to attend school). Last semester I had a 3.8 gpa.

Extra curricular atm are just that I'm in a computing club. I used to be a part of an innovation club, but that has since died... I work part time as an assistant at a good law firm. In high school, I had racked up almost 277+ hours of volunteering at princeton medical center.

I have 7 professor recommendations, so that's good right? They like my work ethic, and my perseverance.

 

[Surgeon Shen]

Hey guys I read through the FAQ, and I think I need to do some sort of program for those who don't have the science requirements.

I used services.aamc.org to find some programs in NJ, and the one I think fit my needs is the Rutgers one. It says its undergraduate though. Does this mean I get to take the pre-requisite classes for taking the MCAT?

 

[alexrgross]

Hey guys I read through the FAQ, and I think I need to do some sort of program for those who don't have the science requirements.

I used services.aamc.org to find some programs in NJ, and the one I think fit my needs is the Rutgers one. It says its undergraduate though. Does this mean I get to take the pre-requisite classes for taking the MCAT?

Yes

 

[deleted248403]

1. MS in IS or CS
2. Law school
3. Med school

Figure out if you actually want medicine before you enroll in a post-bac. The road to medical school, and then through med school is too difficult to do it half-ass'd.

Do some shadowing, "get your hands dirty" (as midlife puts it) and actually see if you want medicine.

Then come back and ask about post-bacs

 

[Surgeon Shen]

Figure out if you actually want medicine before you enroll in a post-bac. The road to medical school, and then through med school is too difficult to do it half-ass'd.

Do some shadowing, "get your hands dirty" (as midlife puts it) and actually see if you want medicine.

Then come back and ask about post-bacs

Can you explain shadowing?

I've seen that term thrown around a lot and I'm wondering how to get any such exposure.

Also I'm not half-assing anything. My first year GPA was low due to genuine medical issues. I've gotten consistently good GPA since then. The lowest grade I have gotten since was a C+ in a class on human resources management where the professor decided to penalize our entire group because two people (out of 6) did not do any work and WE did all their work so as to salvage our grade.... According to her we didn't apply what we learned in the class... she said our presentation and paper were top notch, but since we did not apply what we learned we didn't deserve the grade... my response: wtf lol.

Anyway I've been studying for the GRE and LSAT. I'm taking a class, and so far on two tests my scores (V,Q) were (151, 167) and (163, 167). I've taken 3 practice LSAT so far, averaging 172 🙁 GRE VERBAL IS SO HARD LOL. Obviously the actual test is probably going to be much harder, but I'm going to try my best and try to do well on the real thing!

I want to do something meaningful with my life, and I want to elevate my parents so that they don't have to work so much for so little. I want to help them buy their own house, and not live in a small apartment where the neighbors are not the best. I want my mother to wear good quality clothes and I want my dad to enjoy life, not worry about it. I also want to help other people out. I hate seeing people suffer, and would love to do something to ensure that I personally can do something that makes a difference, whether through my actions and/or through monetary donations.

I am quite serious about pursuing one of those three things. A person I know is a doctor who spends 2 months every year providing free care to poor people in India as well as here in the States.

 

[NJD519]

Can you explain shadowing?

I've seen that term thrown around a lot and I'm wondering how to get any such exposure.

Also I'm not half-assing anything. My first year GPA was low due to genuine medical issues. I've gotten consistently good GPA since then. The lowest grade I have gotten since was a C+ in a class on human resources management where the professor decided to penalize our entire group because two people (out of 6) did not do any work and WE did all their work so as to salvage our grade.... According to her we didn't apply what we learned in the class... she said our presentation and paper were top notch, but since we did not apply what we learned we didn't deserve the grade... my response: wtf lol.

Anyway I've been studying for the GRE and LSAT. I'm taking a class, and so far on two tests my scores (V,Q) were (151, 167) and (163, 167). I've taken 3 practice LSAT so far, averaging 172 🙁 GRE VERBAL IS SO HARD LOL. Obviously the actual test is probably going to be much harder, but I'm going to try my best and try to do well on the real thing!

I want to do something meaningful with my life, and I want to elevate my parents so that they don't have to work so much for so little. I want to help them buy their own house, and not live in a small apartment where the neighbors are not the best. I want my mother to wear good quality clothes and I want my dad to enjoy life, not worry about it. I also want to help other people out. I hate seeing people suffer, and would love to do something to ensure that I personally can do something that makes a difference, whether through my actions and/or through monetary donations.

I am quite serious about pursuing one of those three things. A person I know is a doctor who spends 2 months every year providing free care to poor people in India as well as here in the States.

Shadowing is when a physician allows you to be with them throughout a period of time as they perform their daily responsibilities. This can be in either the ER or in the OR, or elsewhere. It is good to shadow because you get to see and experience what it truly means to be a physician, rather than what you have seen on TV. Through this experience you may realize that medicine is not for you, or that it is exactly what you want to be doing for the rest of your life.

Aside from your volunteering experience it doesn't seem like you have done much in the medical area to be sure of a career in medicine; and the volunteering was so long ago. You should talk to some doctors, volunteer in an ER, shadow a few physicians, or something that involves true medicine before you make a life-changing decision.

Also, it seems that you are thinking about a career in medicine for the wrong reasons. If you are in it for the money, please please please look the other way, haha. From the position you are in now, you need to pay for post-bacc courses, possible MCAT prep, MCAT, applications, more applications, medical school, etc... This is a LOT of money and loans, and you will not make good money for a while. Also, saying "you want to help people" is too cliche to devote your entire life to medicine; it needs to run deeper.

I do not doubt your interest in medicine, I only think you should get some real experience in it before enrolling in a post-bacc program. Additionally, being non-traditional myself, please feel free to ask any questions about why I chose medicine and what I did to come to that choice.

 

[deleted248403]

Can you explain shadowing?

I've seen that term thrown around a lot and I'm wondering how to get any such exposure.

Also I'm not half-assing anything.

NJD519 explained shadowing for you - the fact that you didnt understand this term, indicates you have a lot more thinking, reading and figuring out before you approach this.

Anyways - I don't much care how you did on your LSAT or why you got a C on a project. In fact, no one cares.

As NJD519 also said (good post) you are approaching medicine for the wrong reasons - you need to decide if you can do this life everyday by experiencing it both its positives and negatives.

Contact your personal doctor to ask to shadow, contact your friends/family/friends of friends/anyone who you might have in with.

Shadowing is when a physician allows you to be with them throughout a period of time as they perform their daily responsibilities. This can be in either the ER or in the OR, or elsewhere. It is good to shadow because you get to see and experience what it truly means to be a physician, rather than what you have seen on TV. Through this experience you may realize that medicine is not for you, or that it is exactly what you want to be doing for the rest of your life.

Aside from your volunteering experience it doesn't seem like you have done much in the medical area to be sure of a career in medicine; and the volunteering was so long ago. You should talk to some doctors, volunteer in an ER, shadow a few physicians, or something that involves true medicine before you make a life-changing decision.

Also, it seems that you are thinking about a career in medicine for the wrong reasons. If you are in it for the money, please please please look the other way, haha. From the position you are in now, you need to pay for post-bacc courses, possible MCAT prep, MCAT, applications, more applications, medical school, etc... This is a LOT of money and loans, and you will not make good money for a while. Also, saying "you want to help people" is too cliche to devote your entire life to medicine; it needs to run deeper.

Bolded for agreement

 

[Surgeon Shen]

@NJD519 you gave me some very good advice and I thank you for that. Good luck to you sir/ma'am!

Some questions about shadowing now I understand what that is:

1. Can I just pop in to my doctor's office and ask him if I can shadow? I am quite close to our family doctor and the doctor who operated on my knee as well. My family doctor had a girl about my age who used to follow him around as he did his job for a couple months. Looks like she was shadowing!

Also, I'm not in it for the money. I know docs make a ton of money but that's not what I'm after at all.

I'm not too worried about the expenses because of scholarships but worst come to worst I can take out a student loan or something (the thought scares me). Also my part time job has allowed me to pay for living expenses and such so I will try to manage!

As I said before, one of my inspirations is a doctor I know who travels overseas and provides FREE care to poor people. That's so awesome!

 

[deleted248403]

@NJD519 you gave me some very good advice and I thank you for that. Good luck to you sir/ma'am!

Some questions about shadowing now I understand what that is:

1. Can I just pop in to my doctor's office and ask him if I can shadow? I am quite close to our family doctor and the doctor who operated on my knee as well. My family doctor had a girl about my age who used to follow him around as he did his job for a couple months. Looks like she was shadowing!

Also, I'm not in it for the money. I know docs make a ton of money but that's not what I'm after at all.

I'm not too worried about the expenses because of scholarships but worst come to worst I can take out a student loan or something (the thought scares me). Also my part time job has allowed me to pay for living expenses and such so I will try to manage!

As I said before, one of my inspirations is a doctor I know who travels overseas and provides FREE care to poor people. That's so awesome!

1) Yes to asking both your family and ortho who operated on your knee. You might write a letter to the ortho explaining how you were motivated by the experience, and wanted to learn more (as im assuming you have less of a relationship with them, you'll need to do more of a selling job).

 

[Surgeon Shen]

1) Yes to asking both your family and ortho who operated on your knee. You might write a letter to the ortho explaining how you were motivated by the experience, and wanted to learn more (as im assuming you have less of a relationship with them, you'll need to do more of a selling job).

Thanks Rob I will do this ASAP. If I try to spend say all of August doing this maybe 4 hours a day or something would that make a difference? Due to work, school (summer classes), and other commitments such as a paper I am trying to get published I honestly think that 4 hrs a day is the most I can devote to it. I'll let you know what my doc says.

I am willing to do whatever it takes. I know nobody really cares but I have those 3 goals set and I am going to either complete them or "die" trying.

 

[deleted248403]

Thanks Rob I will do this ASAP. If I try to spend say all of August doing this maybe 4 hours a day or something would that make a difference? Due to work, school (summer classes), and other commitments such as a paper I am trying to get published I honestly think that 4 hrs a day is the most I can devote to it. I'll let you know what my doc says.

I am willing to do whatever it takes. I know nobody really cares but I have those 3 goals set and I am going to either complete them or "die" trying.

No, 4-hours a day for a month isn't really going to help in the long-term it will give you a short term view of things. I think you should do it, but maybe scale back to two 3-hour days a week. (plus i would be shocked if someone let you spend 20hrs a week with them for a month)

Its best to set something up for the long-term, ask if you can come once a week for 3-4 hours for an entire year. That way you get to see what its like over the long haul. Med schools care about volunteering and shadowing hours, and they want to see commitment to the long-term, not a sprint for a month.

 

[Surgeon Shen]

That does make sense. Thanks for that heads up!

In that case I think I will visit our local hospital and ask them if I can shadow in the manner you suggested.

Also, if you don't mind me asking, do you go to med school in NJ? I noticed your location is NJ.

 

[Surgeon Shen]

Just one more quick question:

I talked with my school's advisor today and found out that I only need to take two classes in my 2nd semester of senior year (this coming year). That leaves open room for 3-4 classes.

Should I take some science courses? Also, will my AP chem score from HS (5) count towards a intro chem class? Or is it too late? It is probably better to take it again just because its been 3 years and I don't recall most of the things I learned in it anyway.

 

[texniowa89]

Just one more quick question:

I talked with my school's advisor today and found out that I only need to take two classes in my 2nd semester of senior year (this coming year). That leaves open room for 3-4 classes.

Should I take some science courses? Also, will my AP chem score from HS (5) count towards a intro chem class? Or is it too late? It is probably better to take it again just because its been 3 years and I don't recall most of the things I learned in it anyway.

----------------------------

I posted here some time ago, but now I'm seriously wondering how I can start looking for a post-bacc program.

I tried to contact two colleges (I won't name them) but the email responses I got back were not really helpful.

I do not have a science background as my major dabbles in computing. The only science classes I had to take were astronomy and geology.

I read stories of how people who majored in everything from journalism, arts, or anything non science related were able to do post-bacc programs and admit into medical school.

I am currently 21 years old, and I have another year to go until I graduate. I want to get to know more about post-bacc programs, and here are my questions:

What are the requirements for a post-bacc program? Is it true non-science people can successfully apply to them?

What do I need to even apply? Do I have to take the GRE?

Please let me know!

=====
Firstly I want to show you this site: http://as-cascade.syr.edu/students/...pre_health/_supporting_pages/resource_pb.html. This is a fairly extensive list of all post-baccs in the country including what they call Special Master's Programs (SMPs)...these you will not be eligible for given your lack of science courses so just ignore that part of the list at the bottom of the page. To answer "Is it true non-science people can successfully apply to them?" YES YES. These programs are designed for individuals like you so don't you worry about that. Be sure to look into the Goucher, Scripps and Bryn Mawr programs as they are three of the most prestigious given their reputation of sending second-starters to very good med schools. They also have linkage agreements...check out their sites to see what that is.

What prior responders have told you about reasons for entering medicine and such is serious business. Sounds like you have a fairly level head given that you've devoted some time to thinking about all of the possibilities you'd like to do post-undergrad. I'll say however that you should really give more thought to the life you see yourself living and the career you could see yourself having (this is the exact reason shadowing/interning is important for any profession but especially medicine). My question for you in regards to your FuTuRe would be what do you see yourself doing post-academia? For example, you say you're interested in attending grad school for either a master's in a field of personal interest, Law school, or Med school. It is pretty clear what one would do after med school but as for your other options....would/do you perhaps plan to pursue a Ph.D after that Masters? After which time you'd be subject to research and teaching for the rest of your life? (totally okay so long as you want to do it) Or would you plan to enter the job market and work for.....well, with a degree in CompSci at any level you won't have that much difficulty finding a job somewhere. But then how would this work fit into your goals of helping the poor? -- something you articulated previously that you seem interested in. And then Law school....I won't go against your interests in law but a simple google search nowadays can tell you why Law school is not really the best idea for students at the current moment given overall need and the state of the economy. This should not deter you from taking the LSAT if you're thinking of it as a viable option but just realllyyy give your interests further thought. The road to becoming a licensed MD/DO is not for the faint of mind or heart and it does require a significant amount of personal sacrifice when you begin the pursuit. Postbaccs can be expensive and you want to make sure you really want to give this your all (including your $$, HA!) before you embark on the process.

For course selections your senior year, as someone who chose to do a postbacc after my third year of college in the interest of not killing myself with multiple lab sciences my senior year (I just graduated and will be postbacc'ing it in the fall), take what you love and what you think will help you in the long run. This is your final year of the true undergrad experience and you don't wanna leave with a bitter taste in your mouth. I'd say take one lab science in the fall and spring if you want (start either Bio or General Chem if you're eligible as a senior [also something to think about given the size and options of your school]). Your 5 on the AP Chem exam in high school is great but whether it will count for Gen Chem is up to the stipulation of med schools so I'd check one of their websites for eligibility requirements. Given you'll need knowledge of Gen Chem for the MCAT...if you really cannot remember basics like acid/base chem, VSEPR, molecular forces, periodic trends, etc then I'd take it again. It won't hurt you and can boost your GPA.

You are in a perfect position for a premed postbacc and since it seems like your transcript shows a trend of increased academic performance. Adcoms will eat that up and I don't think you will have a problem getting in BUT YOU WILL HAVE TO WRITE A PERSONAL STATEMENT so it is imperative that you know why you want to embark on this pursuit. If you don't want to spend as much time in the classroom your senior year I'd look into volunteering/shadowing at a local clinic or hospital in lieu of a 4th course, it will only help you in the long run whether you ultimately choose medicine or another career.

Oh, I wrote a tome 😱......hope it helps though

 

[Surgeon Shen]

Thanks a lot!

That was a lot of good information you gave me. I already called a local hospital in my university area and I'm going to visit there this Friday for a meeting or something after I expressed interest in volunteering and shadowing a doctor 2 days a week for 2-3 hours.

As for the other things, I just want to be as educated as I can be. I have realized first hand how important education is for individual growth, and without it I really can't follow any of my dreams/goals. I also had a rough time my first 2 years of college for reasons I already stated, but I am over it (also it wasn't in my hands when I was gonna get that sick!). I am happy again and I've been doing much better.

I know about the dilemmas of law school students and how finding a job is tough, but I was actually looking at actually pursuing that only if I can pull my GPA up to 3.5 before I graduate (I'm at 3.25 atm! I got an A in my first summer class! Let's hope I do the same in the second one!) and pull off a 170+ on the LSAT. According to the people on college confidential, that should at least get me to be considered for the top 10 schools. I'm sure a top 10 law school JD would go a long way! My list of 3 were not in order of preference. I would love to do any of those three.

Finally I think that I will take two science classes, and leave the last spot open. Going to take General Chem and Bio. 🙂

 

[texniowa89]

Good plan! To maybe boost your confidence as far as the LSAT/law school admissions is concerned. First semester of college I took an Intro Bio course (a BS course offered at my liberal arts college that serves as an introduction to the field of biology and we learn to "think" like a scientist...but it is NOT Bio I). In the course I met a senior who was applying to law schools. Over the course of the semester I came to know her fairly well and she shared that her GPA was fairly all right, at a 3.4. She studied HARD for the LSAT and ended up getting a 172. She got into multiple top tier schools and ended up choosing Columbia when in the end it came down to there and Harvard for her. So a high LSAT score can def go a long way!!!

You can do it! Best of luck to you

 

[Surgeon Shen]

Hey guys quick question..

Would it be a good idea to retake Calc 2? I took that in my first year of college (the hell year) and had a C+... I had AP credits for calc 1, so I didn't need to take that. The only other maths I've taken are some advanced statistics and quantitative analysis courses (basically advanced statistics but with applied methods). For computing sciences folks we need up to calc 2, and then some advanced statistics stuff. I'm not sure what folks majoring in science have to take 🙁


I can retake calc 2 and the new grade replaces the old one. Is that worth doing?

edit: im asking b/c there's two spots open for this fall, and the class meets on friday from 6-9.

 

[texniowa89]

Hey guys quick question..

Would it be a good idea to retake Calc 2? I took that in my first year of college (the hell year) and had a C+... I had AP credits for calc 1, so I didn't need to take that. The only other maths I've taken are some advanced statistics and quantitative analysis courses (basically advanced statistics but with applied methods). For computing sciences folks we need up to calc 2, and then some advanced statistics stuff. I'm not sure what folks majoring in science have to take 🙁


I can retake calc 2 and the new grade replaces the old one. Is that worth doing?

edit: im asking b/c there's two spots open for this fall, and the class meets on friday from 6-9.

You only need one year of college-level math for med school and some people end up with calc I and stats counting perfectly for that. Unless you really want to sit through another semester of calculus just for a better grade I would move on and take an upper-level course in a subject matter that really interests you and you care about. People like to see that you dealt with poor performance by doing better in the long run so as long as you take something valuable to you now and work hard you're sure to make a grade that reflects your true abilities.

 

[johnnyscans]

I'm going to play the bad guy:

Becoming a physician isn't as simple as just graduating medical school. Most physicians graduate medical school with close to (or it may be over) $200,000 of debt. You will work like a dog, making $13-14/hr, for 80 hrs/week during residency, all while your $200,000 of debt grows larger and larger by the day. Residency, depending on your specialty, can last anywhere from 3 - 7 years. Factor in 1-2 years for your pre-reqs, a year for applications and 4 years of medical school and you are looking at one hell of a time commitment.

If you goal is to provide your parents with a nice house and good clothes you are looking at close to 10 years before you are in the green.

There are many other jobs with much easier career paths where you can do good and make money.