How do schools know students aren't lying about IAs?

[kk123]

---

Members don't see this ad.

-

 

[Goro]

Because we ask them about it, in person, and we're pretty good, not perfect, at catching liars.

Some IAs (like academic dishonesty) make applicants DOA, and no amount of explanations will suffice.

We can also call the school or LOR writers and ask about the IA if we have any doubts.

I've read multiple posts where people are asking about explaining their IAs. It seems like the reason behind the IA makes a difference on how big of a red flag the IA is. This makes me wonder how ADCOMs know the student is not lying in their explanation about why they received the IA. If a student is dishonest, couldn't they easily make up a different reason why they received an IA?
I've never received an IA, but I know a couple of premeds who have (for academic dishonesty) and they are pretty good at lying too. I could see them lying in their explanations about their IAs if they thought the real reasons would hurt their chances. Does this happen, and do students get away with it?

 

[Planes2Doc]

But how much can one lie about the reason for getting an IA? Usually, you're either owning up to it, or you're making excuses. It seems like that's the way reasoning goes.

The only way to really lie is not disclose when there is no official record of it, since AMCAS asks you to disclose anyhow.

OP, do you have any specific examples?

 

[kk123]

But how much can one lie about the reason for getting an IA? Usually, you're either owning up to it, or you're making excuses. It seems like that's the way reasoning goes.

The only way to really lie is not disclose when there is no official record of it, since AMCAS asks you to disclose anyhow.

OP, do you have any specific examples?

For instance, could a person who received an IA for academic dishonesty claim that they received the IA because their roommate had alcohol in the dorm room and they both got in trouble for it?

 

[Aerus]

For instance, could a person who received an IA for academic dishonesty claim that they received the IA because their roommate had alcohol in the dorm room and they both got in trouble for it?

They definitely could say that, but that would be such a stupid thing to say. It's like getting caught driving drunk and your excuse was that you were taking your dog out for a walk and happened to accidentally drop your water bottle on the sidewalk and unintentionally littered.

 

[hoihaie]

For instance, could a person who received an IA for academic dishonesty claim that they received the IA because their roommate had alcohol in the dorm room and they both got in trouble for it?

no.... because that wouldn't be labeled as academic dishonesty

 

[kk123]

no.... because that wouldn't be labeled as academic dishonesty

So IAs actually have labels that come with them? I didn't know that. I thought they were just labeled as "IA" on transcript and had to be explained on application.

 

[Planes2Doc]

no.... because that wouldn't be labeled as academic dishonesty

That's what I'm guessing... I assume that there will be a charge on the transcript, but you need to fill in the details. It's stupid to think you can pass off cheating as an alcohol or dorm violation???

 

[hoihaie]

So IAs actually have labels that come with them? I didn't know that. I thought they were just labeled as "IA" on transcript and had to be explained on application.

I think it depends on what school you're from. I know some schools have different labels for different IAs. Also, academic dishonesty is usually accompanied by an F or super low grade. Unless you're saying you were drunk the entire quarter, the grade would be hard to explain.

 

[Planes2Doc]

So IAs actually have labels that come with them? I didn't know that. I thought they were just labeled as "IA" on transcript and had to be explained on application.

You can provide an explanation. As @Goro says, you can own up to a lot of them and you'll be fine. No one will care about getting caught with alcohol in your dorm, smoking weed, or a noise violation in the dorm. As for academic dishonesty, well then, you're screwed. There's no comparison between the former and latter. It's like comparing Apples to iPhones.

 

[kk123]

You can provide an explanation. As @Goro says, you can own up to a lot of them and you'll be fine. No one will care about getting caught with alcohol in your dorm, smoking weed, or a noise violation in the dorm. As for academic dishonesty, well then, you're screwed. There's no comparison between the former and latter. It's like comparing Apples to iPhones.

That's why I was wondering if students could get away with lying about their IA, claiming it was for something totally different if they realized the real reason would screw them over. The students I know who received IAs weren't afraid of being dishonest in order to increase their chances of getting in (thus the IA) so I wouldn't put it past them to lie on the application.

 

[Planes2Doc]

That's why I was wondering if students could get away with lying about their IA, claiming it was for something totally different if they realized the real reason would screw them over. The students I know who received IAs weren't afraid of being dishonest in order to increase their chances of getting in (thus the IA) so I wouldn't put it past them to lie on the application.

Yeah, if an institutional popped up only as an "IA" on your transcript with nothing else, then you'd better believe that people will turn cheating on an exam into a dorm noise violation... I realize that people on SDN will always be honest and will volunteer far more information than they have to in the name of honesty, but that isn't reflective of the real-world. 😉 Luckily for those honest people (and sucks for the dishonest ones), institutional actions aren't going to pop up as vague notations on your file.

If you happen to get into trouble in school, you need to look at everything literally. For instance, if you're caught cheating and your professor gives you an F on the assignment or class but doesn't bring it further up the food chain, then you don't need to mention it since it wasn't actually the "institution" taking any actions against you. Things like this are technically loopholes, and don't need to be reported. If this happens, one should consider themselves very lucky given the circumstances. You can recover from an F (and they will obviously lie about why they got it), but are very unlikely to recover from academic dishonesty.

Now, it is possible for people to get institutional actions expunged or other things like that. AMCAS asks you to list any institutional actions even if there is no record of it. Now you can see the temptation to lie. It's a life and death situation in a non-literal sense, and I think you know of the most probable outcome in this kind of scenario.

 

[nemo123]

Often times your committee LOR will also talk about your IA and if your story doesn't match the story in your committee LOR, then you're toast. Also, some schools (or actually I think all schools) will ask for a dean certification letter detailing your IA if you check the yes box on AMCAS to confirm whatever you say about your IA.

 

[chillinillinkillin007]

You can provide an explanation. As @Goro says, you can own up to a lot of them and you'll be fine. No one will care about getting caught with alcohol in your dorm, smoking weed, or a noise violation in the dorm. As for academic dishonesty, well then, you're screwed. There's no comparison between the former and latter. It's like comparing Apples to iPhones.

lol nice

 

[kk123]

Yeah, if an institutional popped up only as an "IA" on your transcript with nothing else, then you'd better believe that people will turn cheating on an exam into a dorm noise violation... I realize that people on SDN will always be honest and will volunteer far more information than they have to in the name of honesty, but that isn't reflective of the real-world. 😉 Luckily for those honest people (and sucks for the dishonest ones), institutional actions aren't going to pop up as vague notations on your file.

If you happen to get into trouble in school, you need to look at everything literally. For instance, if you're caught cheating and your professor gives you an F on the assignment or class but doesn't bring it further up the food chain, then you don't need to mention it since it wasn't actually the "institution" taking any actions against you. Things like this are technically loopholes, and don't need to be reported. If this happens, one should consider themselves very lucky given the circumstances. You can recover from an F (and they will obviously lie about why they got it), but are very unlikely to recover from academic dishonesty.

Now, it is possible for people to get institutional actions expunged or other things like that. AMCAS asks you to list any institutional actions even if there is no record of it. Now you can see the temptation to lie. It's a life and death situation in a non-literal sense, and I think you know of the most probable outcome in this kind of scenario.

I see. I wasn't really sure how all that worked.