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In a clinic setting, as a resident or attending, do you be nice to them no matter what they do? I was so ticked at this girl. She wasn't polite at all. Very rude. I wanted to be rude back.
how do you deal with rude medical students
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If you the attending, kick her off the rotation and send her back to the school. I wouldn't put up with that, didn't as a resident either. If she's rude to you, then what is she doing to the patients?
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Wow. I would never dream of being rude to anyone in front of an upper level, let alone an attending. Kudos to you for not shredding her. You would have been within your rights and she probably needed to be put in her place.
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True. thats what i was thinking. it was the first time meeting her. she just sat in my seat. and didn't move, and my computer was there. and then when i sat next to her she put her feet on my chair, and i felt the weight on me lol...she didn't say a word to me. she mainly wanted to talk to the other doctor. not me.he's like some renowned specialist and im not. i just work there. lol. but i am considered an attending physician. im still just a gp though. my first instinct/impression thought she was rude. i could totally be wrong. i guess i'll give it time before reacting. maybe she doesn't even know english...lol. i really want to avoid her though. she really somehow gets on my nerves. i guess if im rude back i'll get in trouble more than she would. i feel like its just better to suffer in silence and refrain than to draw attention to myself. I guess i also got flashbacks of greys anatomy where the attendings are mean to the interns and whip them up into shape. i dont think i should apply that to reality.
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Definitely doesn't sound like something to confront her about just yet. Unless she verbally said offensive stuff. If she does it again, maybe ask her nicely that you dont like it when people put their feet on your chair, or that you need this computer and if she can move. Is she working with you, or is she just rotating with another doctor that works in the same place as you?
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Sounds to me like she is clueless and doesn't realize how inconsiderate her behavior seemed.
I would not be rude to her, but I think it would be justified to politely tell her that her behavior is interfering with your ability to do your work and you'd appreciate it if she would keep that in mind.
I would not be rude to her, but I think it would be justified to politely tell her that her behavior is interfering with your ability to do your work and you'd appreciate it if she would keep that in mind.
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Yeah verbally she hasn't been offensive. She's rotating with another doctor in the same place. I 'll just try to ignore her and do my own work. it is really hard to get on my nerves, i never get annoyed by an innocent person, hardly ever, but she was able to do that easily. lol....i guess i just felt she had no manners. and that just got to me, because everyone else there does. i guess i should also remember she is rotating in a specialty and she's an actual med student, not in family practice. lol.. so i guess i'll stay away. maybe i should have carried food cuz maybe i was hungry too lol. that can cause irritation. maybe i was like the guy in the snickers commercials. i dunno we'll see how it goes. thanks you all for the advice.
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Why didn't you just politely ask to have your seat back?
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If it were me, I would have said, "Excuse me, can you please find another seat. I really need to use my computer right now," or, "Can you please not put your feet on my seat? Its very distracting." More than likely, she will respond if you ask politely. If, however, she gave me lip after I asked her nicely, I would say, "Fine, then. I'll have a word with your attending about your ability to work and play with others."
Of course, this would never happen as I have a private office. No one sits at my desk except me!
Of course, this would never happen as I have a private office. No one sits at my desk except me!
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i should have but i just couldn't get myself to do that. i was scared to ask. i didn't want to seem rude. but o well, there was another empty seat nearby. i don't know why i got annoyed at her about it lol....
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Is it possible that she didn't know you were a physician?
Even when patently obvious (at least to me and others), there are some who would assume otherwise. I am still amazed that, to this day, there are patients who are confused about who I am, despite making an appointment with me and me introducing myself when I walk in as "Dr". I blame it on the influx of mid-levels in other specialities and the relative paucity of female surgeons.
Even when patently obvious (at least to me and others), there are some who would assume otherwise. I am still amazed that, to this day, there are patients who are confused about who I am, despite making an appointment with me and me introducing myself when I walk in as "Dr". I blame it on the influx of mid-levels in other specialities and the relative paucity of female surgeons.
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She walked by me and said nothing, so I introduced myself as Dr. so and so. She might have thought i was just a medical graduate who didn't finish residency, and basically a big nothing lol. But i do look 12 years old to a lot of people, even though i have a lot of gray hair. I guess no one notices it but me. lol.. My patients get it straight that I'm a doctor, but when i was in residency, The whole hospital kept calling me either nurse or Doogie Howser MD. When i was doing house calls people thought i was a nurse and my medical assistant as the doctor. One of my patients today called me baby doctor. LOL
There is a PA that works where I do now and everyone calls her doctor and she doesn't correct them. LOL but she does know as much or more than a doctor.
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Scared of what?
She's just a med student. If you need a seat, just ask for it. In our resident clinic, there's usually 2-3 med students and X number of computers. If I need one, I just ask a med student to move, and 100% they are more than happy to switch spots.
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That's funny. It's usually the other way around.
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Oh lord. This thread just makes me uncomfortable all over. A rude med student and a timid attending.
The med student was raised poorly and has no manners. But, people let her get away with it. I'll tell you 1 time to get out of my seat, nicely. The next time, I'm telling you to get out of my office. This is my house too.
Part of being a doctor is learning how to get along with everyone, regardless of whether or not they are within your chain of command... Actually... Correction: Part of living in a civil society and being a human being is learning how to get along with everyone. If you're a guest and you come in and piss everyone off, it's time for the medical student to go.
And, it's time the OP respect yourself and stand up for yourself.
The med student was raised poorly and has no manners. But, people let her get away with it. I'll tell you 1 time to get out of my seat, nicely. The next time, I'm telling you to get out of my office. This is my house too.
Part of being a doctor is learning how to get along with everyone, regardless of whether or not they are within your chain of command... Actually... Correction: Part of living in a civil society and being a human being is learning how to get along with everyone. If you're a guest and you come in and piss everyone off, it's time for the medical student to go.
And, it's time the OP respect yourself and stand up for yourself.
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I can assure you the med student knows nothing of your background. For all intents and purposes, you are an attending, so if anyone should be intimidated, it should be her. Of course, as I said, you should ask politely at first. But if she continues to be rude, then you need to show her that you're the one in charge.
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I think y'all are overreacting...
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Have some damn self respect.
If it's your chair, and she's in it, and you want it, ask for her to get out of it so that you can use it. It's simple as that. You can't blame her because she probably didn't even know it was your chair.
Just sitting there stewing about it will not help you in any possible way. You'll just become bitter.
Exercise some level of control.
If it's your chair, and she's in it, and you want it, ask for her to get out of it so that you can use it. It's simple as that. You can't blame her because she probably didn't even know it was your chair.
Just sitting there stewing about it will not help you in any possible way. You'll just become bitter.
Exercise some level of control.
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You remind her that she's a student and that that crap doesn't fly, and remind her that you are the one filling out her evaluation. Or, which will create a serious blow to any chance at residency matching for a student, say something negative about their professionalism directly in their eval or make a call to their school regarding student's professionalism. But I would start by talking to the student. If the student doesn't get it, then I would follow through with a complaint regarding professionalism.
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I view this as less about being intimidated by a med student and more about a person brought up to always be polite. And not wanting to be a jerk.
I can identify...
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great point dejavu, I also feel very strong about not being a jerk at all times. However, there is a pecking order and one can make this clear without being impolite, furthermore this behavior would simply not be tolerated at my school....and on the bright side, if she is indeed oblivious think of how much you will help her future career by getting her to realize her error/bad behavior.
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Although the same thing happens to me, and psychiatry is flooded with women. It's probably a combination of old fashioned sexism and confusion because of mid-levels.
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docu apparently has a psychotic disorder, so her judgment might be off.
So basically you were irritated that she didn't read your mind and know that she was in your chair...
The solution is to just speak up politely next time. She probably had no idea that she was bothering you.
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Our program has the policy of always being professional to rotating students in order to best represent the residency and hopefully give students a positive impression of the program. When a student steps over the line or needs to be corrected, we have to do it delicately (too delicately imo) but make sure we still get the point across. It does take a bit of tact and it certainly is not easy. Responding to rudeness with more rudeness is only going to breed contempt. Try treating the student exactly as they are: a colleague, albeit a junior one.
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It's nice to be thought of as a colleague and y'all seem like the nicest group of Attendings ever, but remember we do not have a determinant role in patient care yet. So tell us to step. I am always aware enough of my surroundings to stand when another doc, resident or attending, from my team or someone else's, needs to sit to do work.
It is crappy when you're the low man and you're scrambling to find a computer to get the information you need for your team but so what, I'm not making any decisions so I can wait or walk to another unit.
People can slip and be unaware, but more often they're just habitually unaware.
Next time, put the natural law of the jungle back in its proper place. You're making me more uncomfortable than anyone ever would asking me to move.
It is crappy when you're the low man and you're scrambling to find a computer to get the information you need for your team but so what, I'm not making any decisions so I can wait or walk to another unit.
People can slip and be unaware, but more often they're just habitually unaware.
Next time, put the natural law of the jungle back in its proper place. You're making me more uncomfortable than anyone ever would asking me to move.
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docu, you need to be more of a leader, stop referring to yourself as a "lowly gp in a small town". You need to learn that sometimes you need to be an ********* in this world, which I'm positive you know by now. Give people an inch and they'll take a mile. It's always the nicest people that get taken advantage of, and you seem incredibly thoughtful and I can only assume you're a nice person, but damn, a med student, seriously?
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This thread makes sense now.
I'm surprised at the delusional *****s who agreed with her position. If someone is sitting at your computer, just state, "Excuse me, I need to use that computer."
It's simple. Laws of the jungle need not apply - especially to a group of so-called educated and cultured individuals. This is not the trailer park and earning a degree does not give one license to abuse a STUDENT.
In any other industry (save the military), you would get your azz and a pink slip handed to you for that type of behavior.
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Laws of the jungle always apply. If lions be what they are. They can always hurt us worse. I doubt you really think otherwise. It's just my words that bother you. They have some moral obligation to play nice. But they don't have too. Whereas some of us who both assume they must and violate our end of the bargain end up in f'd up in blackball alley. Mugged of a multi hundred thousand dollar investment.
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I agree. in medical training, there is a pecking order and if you violate it, most likely your career is close to or already over. You can sue and ask for help, but most times the student or resident wont win. I'm not doing anything to anyone, because I'm working in a regular clinic that isn't governed by ACGME. Just don't feel like it because I'm nice and I have nothing to do with this girl. I haven't really seen her in clnic since, thankfully. I think it just got on my nerves how rude she was toward me. Usually 99.9% of things don't get on my nerves, so i dont know what that means. I guess next time i'll be more assertive and not let them take advantage.
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I always think its strange how people generally compare bad or abusive behavior to the military, but military hospitals (and the military in general) are the only place that I, as of yet, haven't actually seen that kind of bad behavior.
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I agree. There is a better understanding of the fundamentals of leadership in the armed forces. If you're going to ask someone to go into battle you better have their respect. So a necessary common good is paramount. It's quite easy for a well positioned civilian, who brings prestige, money, and/or expertise to an institution to walk around like a spoiled prince(ss). Some institutions have a strong eglatarian ethic, largely unionized ones, and some don't.
Still. Even a friendly lion could remove your head with an angry swipe of paw. Especially when justified. The aforementioned med student needs to stop being all consumed with kissing one doc's ass enough to notice the one who needs to get work done.
They should be asked to move with reasonable civility but be expected to abide curtly without complaint. Lest they be cultivated into that worst of all breeds, the cowardly and capricious. Who lack proper concern for big and small.
That's why it sickens me to see an overly polite doc allegedly get disrespected. I know enough about my kind to wish for a benevolent and righteous angry force to reconcile us into proper balance with nature. Old Testament style. Brimstone, fire, smiting, and ****.
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You must be connected to the military somehow. As an ex-Marine, I'm sitting here trying to figure out which service you were, or are, in.
You're posts are pretty eloquent and well thought out, so you cannot be a Jar-Head. But you used the phrase "going into battle" so you probably are not in the Navy, and I doubt a jet driver Air Force guy would use that phrase, but he might.
But I have to guess Army Officer, maybe having the Army paying for your schooling? I don't know. Just passing the time guessing. Sorry.
At any rate, if you are standing your watch for your country, thank you for your service.
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You are not colleagues: you are the student's superior but more importantly you are their teacher. They learn best when part of a team but they do not learn if they think they are the leader of the team.
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I agree. It was just sloppy phrasing/thinking that might have indicated otherwise.
I'm not military. I just respect how they do leadership and teamwork. And given that we lack their touchstone of life and death to elucidate the necessity of mutual respect and justice. How bout we get to pick one prick of a physician boss a year to have a go at one on one. That way, if you want to act foul, you don't get to hide behind a title forever. So that the scales of jungle justice remain balanced.
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I, too, think that the military studies leadership and that civilian institutions could learn some things from them.
Also... I wasn't trying to be nosy about your private life; I was just passing the time and was impressed by your comments enough to intrigue me. Sorry if it seemed as if I was prying.
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Ex-marine...interesting. I didn't think there were any ex-marines.
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auditory hallucinations and hyperreligiousity are a good start.
How do you know the voices that he / she hears are not real?
Can you say for sure that God doesn't talk to some people and maybe God really is talking to the OP?
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you are way too nice. how is it that you haven't been hardened at least a little bit by the medical education in this country? and I mean that in a nice way.
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In our minds and hearts, no. Thank you for even knowing that.
I always say it that way so people don't think I am still in the Corps. Although I am way to old for that now.
Semper Fidelis
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How do you know the voices that he / she hears are not real?
Can you say for sure that God doesn't talk to some people and maybe God really is talking to the OP?
👍
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I've never heard of a real Marine refer to themselves as an "ex-Marine."
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