How Do You Define Academic EM?

[docB]

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Another thread got me thinking about this. As more programs spring up in community centers that are not affiliated with medical schools are the attending jobs "academic" or not?

What is the strict definition? Is it based on publications and research? Is it the residents? Can you be academic if you teach med students but not residents?

I would argue (as a point for discussion) that an academic EP is one who's job description includes non-clinical duties related to research and/or education of residents.

There are problems with this definition. Do you need to get paid for the ed and reasearch? If not then volunteer faculty are academic. Should it be defined as residents only? I'd say yes because that's EM specific while medstudents are there for physical exam and other more general stuff.

 

[FoughtFyr]

Another thread got me thinking about this. As more programs spring up in community centers that are not affiliated with medical schools are the attending jobs "academic" or not?

What is the strict definition? Is it based on publications and research? Is it the residents? Can you be academic if you teach med students but not residents?

I would argue (as a point for discussion) that an academic EP is one who's job description includes non-clinical duties related to research and/or education of residents.

There are problems with this definition. Do you need to get paid for the ed and reasearch? If not then volunteer faculty are academic. Should it be defined as residents only? I'd say yes because that's EM specific while medstudents are there for physical exam and other more general stuff.

For me it hinges on the arcane world of academic rank. If an EP is a tenure track faculty of a medical school then he/she is an "academic EP", if not, then the EP teaches, lectures, guides or advises, but is not truly "academic".

Just my $0.02 (actual cash value $0.005)

- H

 

[BKN]

For me it hinges on the arcane world of academic rank. If an EP is a tenure track faculty of a medical school then he/she is an "academic EP", if not, then the EP teaches, lectures, guides or advises, but is not truly "academic".

Just my $0.02 (actual cash value $0.005)

- H

I think you are being a little too narrow. I think most commonly we use it to mean faculty who are full time employees of a med school, whether on tenure or clinical track. But even that's really too narrow. I think the attendings at community based residencies think of themselves as "academic" as well. Really, how important is this? 🙂

 

[mikecwru]

For me it hinges on the arcane world of academic rank. If an EP is a tenure track faculty of a medical school then he/she is an "academic EP", if not, then the EP teaches, lectures, guides or advises, but is not truly "academic".

Just my $0.02 (actual cash value $0.005)

- H

I agree more with docB's definition. Most medical specialties divide work between patient care, research, and education. I think if you're involved in any of the two arms beyond patient care, you're doing academic work.

 

[docB]

I think the attendings at community based residencies think of themselves as "academic" as well. Really, how important is this? 🙂

It's important in that med students and residents are forming opinions about what type of practice they want to do. I was responding on another thread about a question of private practice and academic practice. The more I thought about it I realized that the lines are bluring as the specialty matures. With more community based programs and community centers hosting residents the options are growing. You can do reasearch and precept residents outside a traditional academic center and with the emergence of "clinical faculty" positions you can be at the academic center with less emphesis on classical academic stuff.

I brought this up because I said that EPs are either academic or private practice and I think that was an oversimplification on my part.

 

[BKN]

It's important in that med students and residents are forming opinions about what type of practice they want to do. I was responding on another thread about a question of private practice and academic practice. The more I thought about it I realized that the lines are bluring as the specialty matures. With more community based programs and community centers hosting residents the options are growing. You can do reasearch and precept residents outside a traditional academic center and with the emergence of "clinical faculty" positions you can be at the academic center with less emphesis on classical academic stuff.

I brought this up because I said that EPs are either academic or private practice and I think that was an oversimplification on my part.

OK. I think I see a distinction between "academic work" and being in "academic practice".

Academic work (the teaching and research stuff alluded to) can certainly be done in med centers, community hospitals and urban publics. Did I include everything? If not, consider it added. In fact if you consider teaching nursing staff and EMS personnel academic, we're all doing it.

Academic practice, with your income paid to the University practice plan, with a chance to get some of it back and with obligation to teach, research etc, and the possibility of paid relase time usually occurs at University hospitals.

Does that do it?

 

[tonem]

I've always thought of academics as people that teach/supervise residents or medical students or people involved in conducting research...its probably to general of a definition but thats what I've been going with based on my narrow experience

I also thought that all residencies -- community or otherwise had to have an academic affiliation with a medical school. Ie: Highland in Oakland has an academic affiliation with UCSF...Bakersfield with UCLA, etc....maybe I'm wrong...I'm sure I'll be enlightened....

 

[docB]

Academic practice, with your income paid to the University practice plan, with a chance to get some of it back and with obligation to teach, research etc, and the possibility of paid relase time usually occurs at University hospitals.

Does that do it?

I'd call that an excellent point. The traditional academics are obligated. That distinguishes them from the volunteer faculty, community guys with residents and so on.

Peter Sokolove has a great leacture called "The (some number, I think it was 10) Best Reasons To Persue Academics." Sabbaticle was high on the list.