How hard is orgo really?

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[yehhhboiii]

it's impossible, no one can do it and only the smartest students manage to pass

 

[sinombre]

There's nothing conceptually difficult about undergraduate level organic chemistry. What makes it "hard" for most is the volume of information relative to other classes... most people that have been able to "cram" before midterms/finals in other classes and do well won't be able to do well in organic chemistry by using the same method. Succeeding is almost 100% about time management. Set up a realistic study schedule and do everything you can to stick with it (which is basically what you'll have to do for medical school anyway). It won't require an insane amount of time if you stick to your schedule every day.

 

[Demon]

I found it easier than gen chem but that's me. It's just like any other class. Make sure to conceptualize the material as opposed to simply memorizing formulas.

 

[SN12357]

Everyone I talk to is freaked out about orgo and won't stop complaining about how it's probably the most difficult subject alive. Apparently, it is near impossible to get an A in the class unless you lock yourself in your room and study 24-7...huh.

Is orgo really that hard??? And if so, what makes it that difficult? What can I do to prepare in advance so that I make that A?

Orgo combines three things--memorization, problem solving, and three-dimensional visualization/understanding. Often people are weak at one of those areas, which does make it more difficult subject.

However, whether or not orgo THE CLASS is difficult is more about whether or not it's well taught and well run. Often it isn't. This is a much bigger factor in how difficult a class is than people give it credit for.

 

[NuttyEngDude]

However, whether or not orgo THE CLASS is difficult is more about whether or not it's well taught and well run. Often it isn't. This is a much bigger factor in how difficult a class is than people give it credit for.

+1
professor and university are a HUGE factor

 

[Pandaeac]

Agreeing with what everyone is saying. Most important, do NOT psych yourself out for this class. It's just another class, nothing special. I actually loved orgo and I know a lot of other people who did, so you might end up enjoying it. Good luck!

 

[aledwards93]

Personally, I found it easier than gen chem.. I think people do badly in it because they are used to being able to wait until the last minute to study.. There is too much information for this to be possible. However, if you just pay attention in class and keep up with the material, it honestly is very easy. I had around a 96% in that class and I'm no super genius or shut in..

Just make flashcards and review them very regularly.

 

[jr93]

OChem 1 is easy to moderate difficulty. Ochem 2 is slightly harder only because there are more things that aren't necessarilly intuitive so you have to memorize a couple things that you probably don't care about. Either way, the difficulty is heavily exaggerated by most. It may be the hardest class for some easy majors but not even top 5 or top 10 for some majors. To be honest, they really need to make an ochem course for people pursuing professional medical science schooling because 2 semesters seems pointless. I think you learn a lot of good things in Ochem but I'm pretty sure you could cover the relevent things in 1 semester.

 

[Doctor Strange]

The material isn't horribly difficult, but depending on where you take it and who's teaching it, the exams can be quite tricky. My orgo was a pharmacy class that was intended to weed out the weaker candidates. It sucked.

 

[gocanes1990]

REALLY depends on the school and professor, i actually enjoyed the material. I however took over the summer, 5 week per semester, so although it was fast, it was my only class

 

[fourhumours]

REALLY depends on the school and professor, i actually enjoyed the material. I however took over the summer, 5 week per semester, so although it was fast, it was my only class

yup took orgo 1 at my undergrad university where they tailor the class towards people who want to be organic chemists and seem to delight in making all other students (pre-meds, biology majors) in having a tough time. ORGO 2 was even worse and I dropped it. I took it over the summer at a different school that did not have grad students in chemistry and a professor who actually wanted to teach us and I breezed through it no problem.

I also did spend about 2-3x as much time on the summer course (trying to raise my GPA). but it really made way more sense when the professor gave two ****s about teaching instead of viewing the class as an interruption to his massively important research.

 

[thisisansley]

Reiterating what other people have said, the most important thing is to just not get behind in the class. I found it easier than gen chem because I took the warnings about it seriously and devoted several hours to the class 3-4 days a week outside of lecture.

My first semester I had a professor who graded us solely on our lab/exam grades but curved heavily (I got an 89 on the first test and then he decided to put a 40 point curve on it 🙄 so I was essentially done for the semester when I heard that). Second semester I had a teacher who assigned a TON of homework that factored heavily into our grade but didn't curve at all. The kids who cheated on the homework, failed the tests and didn't do well in the class. I ended up with an A first semester and an A- second semester.

 

[mtbski]

I think it depends on where you go to school. I took some of my classes at a school that grade courses entirely on a curve, i.e. only 5 people in my 500 person physics class got a 4.0, 12 people got a 3.9, and so on. If you're at a school like this with a really competitive pre-med scene, then it's going to be harder to get an A. Conceptually, I didn't find orgo to be too hard.

 

[Sassafrass23]

In my experience, people that are good in physics don't do well in organic and vice versa. This was also the theme in my mcat prep class.

 

[Chillbo Baggins]

I'd say the difficulty is a little overhyped. Yeah, it's hard, but nothing unbearable.

Your prof does make a big difference, too; My OChem 1 prof was kind of aloof and had a weird teaching style, so even though my OChem 2 prof made you learn more specific things, her teaching style was much more straightforward, and I liked it a lot more.

In fact, I took Polymer Chemistry the following semester because I found it so interesting.

(Side note: I wonder why like >99% of SDN members call it "orgo," when everyone I've ever talked to in real life has called it "o chem.")

 

[thisisansley]

(Side note: I wonder why like >99% of SDN members call it "orgo," when everyone I've ever talked to in real life has called it "o chem.")

maybe it's a regional thing? Everyone in my classes called it orgo.

 

[NuttyEngDude]

(Side note: I wonder why like >99% of SDN members call it "orgo," when everyone I've ever talked to in real life has called it "o chem.")

maybe it's a regional thing? Everyone in my classes called it orgo.

east coasters (including southerners i believe) call it orgo, west coasters call it ochem, i dont know what midwesterners call it.

 

[Chillbo Baggins]

east coasters (including southerners i believe) call it orgo, west coasters call it ochem, i dont know what midwesterners call it.

I guess Texas falls into the west coast category, lol.

 

[jr93]

Orgo doesn't make much sense as an abbreviated name. The entire name of the course only has one "o" in it. Why would the abbreviation have two? Ochem makes sense. Might as well call Pchem physo.

 

[gtbROX]

You'll find that premeds exaggerate compulsively. "I studied x hours every day" pretty much equates to cramming the night before and expecting to do well. When I look back on my past 4 years of college, I know the reasons for why I didn't get As in the classes that I didn't do that well in. Usually it has to do with me not putting in consistent studying daily (basically I crammed). For OChem I put in 2 hours a day at first and then it decreased to just going to office hours and discussions and putting in an hour every other day or less. For OChem, study frequently, diligently, consistently early on and push thru until you feel comfortable enough to study less. Go to extra discussions and office hours, go to your free tutoring sessions if offered at your college. There are plenty of resources to use to do well.

 

[Mjolner]

Midwesterners call it Ochem

 

[yolk]

I put in 8-12 hours of studying for Ochem-1 a week. No those weren't cramming sessions, I did assigned(optional) homework every other day for a few hours. The morning before an exam I would wake up an hour early to review my notes and that's all the 'cramming' I ever did.

My professor had a very methodical approach to teaching; luckily I have the same professor for Ochem-2 (whew). Grades were based only on exams, quizes, and lab. I'm of average intellect when you compare me to the pre-professional student cohort, but I put in the work and pulled of an A- w/o a class curve and plan to approach Ochem-2 in the same fashion. My roommate took the class with me and is very smart, but barely passed the class because he tried cramming. If you have good study habits, the class will be a breeze.

...and yes, we midwesterners say Ochem 😎

 

[Omppu27]

Buy Ochem As A Second Language 1 (and maybe 2 if you think you'll need it).

 

[Mavs88]

I'm taking it this semester coming up. Took it at a CC earlier and did terrible. I put in no work and basically relied on this massive curve that the prof promised, but never came. I would have dropped instead if I knew that.

Anyway, it was still my fault. It definitely is a class that you need to be studying all the time. Don't wait for a test or anything. Study as the concepts are taught, etc.

It's been great to read this thread myself...very helpful as I look to redeem myself in O-chem. And yes, I've only heard it as that in Texas.

 

[NuttyEngDude]

so it looks like east coasters and parts of the south use the term orgo and everyone else calls it ochem. interesting 😛

class was a lot of work for me. not difficult just a lot of work. as others have said, the habit of cramming will hurt you in this class.

 

[Kishan93]

Taking Orgo this fall, the class is primarily online with optional discussion sections taught by SI's (TA's in a way i guess). Locking myself in the room doesn't seem like a bad idea so I won't get distracted during lectures lol.

 

[Anastomoses]

To be honest, they really need to make an ochem course for people pursuing professional medical science schooling because 2 semesters seems pointless. I think you learn a lot of good things in Ochem but I'm pretty sure you could cover the relevent things in 1 semester.

I can't for the life of me understand why med students have to take 2 semesters of organic chemistry. I think you basically need to understand isomerism and...uh...that's about it. Is there anything else we end up using from those classes?

I guess Texas falls into the west coast category, lol.

Austin and I called it orgo.

 

[ChemEngMD]

Not as hard as P Chem.

 

[Chillbo Baggins]

Austin and I called it orgo.

Well, that was unexpected.

 

[Myrridith]

If you are good at shapes, you will do decently in orgo. Most ppl I know who struggled with it struggled with shapes.

I liked shapes so orgo was kind of fun.

 

[1TB4RKSB4CK]

Wasn't hard at all.
Just adjusted my study habits a bit and it was a breeze.

 

[Klyx]

Buy Ochem As A Second Language 1 (and maybe 2 if you think you'll need it).

This. I bought the book and only solved the first five-ish chapters (resonance, arrow-pushing, Sn1, Sn2), but that set me up really nicely for the whole o-chem series. After you get the foundation down pat, you just need to memorize mechanisms. Knowing how electrons move will make that much easier for you.

Like others have mentioned, you need to keep up with the material, or it will be tremendously difficult to try to cram the night before.

 

[jr93]

I can't for the life of me understand why med students have to take 2 semesters of organic chemistry. I think you basically need to understand isomerism and...uh...that's about it. Is there anything else we end up using from those classes?



Austin and I called it orgo.

I'm technically not in med school for another couple weeks but everyone that has been through it says the same thing. Ochem is borderline pointless. I'd imagine much of calc is also. I'm an engineer and can't say that anything above the basics of calc 1 is even relevent to my job. School is mostly just a test of will for engineers and forcing a certain way of thinking. 70% of the material is garbage that you'll never need or remember. You just need to know where to find it if the situation ever comes up. This is the case for all careers. It's why almost all professionals have libraries of books in their offices. They may not know the answer off the top off their head but they can probably find the answer in under 5 minutes.

 

[dfib slim]

.

 

[Lambda Phage]

Most people don't have to take p chem

Oh and I'm from PA and we call it ochem.

 

[LiveLoveLearn]

I didn't think that orgo was that hard. There are some basic concepts that you really need to understand, whcih predict/explain most of the mechanisms that you will see. Then, you just need to memorize the outliers. Most people don't put in the time to really understand the foundations of the course (or don't think in a way that enables them to take the information and apply it to a wide array of problems), which results in having to memorize hundreds of mechanisms, which I imagine, would be very difficult. Don't get me wrong, there is a fair amount of memorization, but much of it abides by some basic rules, which make them much more logical and easy to remember.

 

[sliceofbread136]

I think people overreact about the difficulty of Ochem. It's rly not bad at all.

 

[ForHumors]

In my experience, people that are good in physics don't do well in organic and vice versa. This was also the theme in my mcat prep class.

IMO its just based on how much you study

 

[circulus vitios]

It depends on your professor. Mine was a **** at teaching, so the class average for the organic I final was ~35%.

 

[The Milkman]

Midwesterners call it Ochem

Midwesterners also call it orgo

 

[usffan]

I'm technically not in med school for another couple weeks but everyone that has been through it says the same thing. Ochem is borderline pointless. I'd imagine much of calc is also. I'm an engineer and can't say that anything above the basics of calc 1 is even relevent to my job. School is mostly just a test of will for engineers and forcing a certain way of thinking. 70% of the material is garbage that you'll never need or remember. You just need to know where to find it if the situation ever comes up. This is the case for all careers. It's why almost all professionals have libraries of books in their offices. They may not know the answer off the top off their head but they can probably find the answer in under 5 minutes.

I don't know. Since the vast majority of pharmaceuticals are organic compounds, and doctors are licensed to prescribe pharmaceuticals, it seems to me that they probably should have an understanding of what they're recommending that their patients put into their bodies. I guess I don't see that as "pointless."

 

[katizzle]

There's nothing conceptually difficult about undergraduate level organic chemistry. What makes it "hard" for most is the volume of information relative to other classes... most people that have been able to "cram" before midterms/finals in other classes and do well won't be able to do well in organic chemistry by using the same method. Succeeding is almost 100% about time management. Set up a realistic study schedule and do everything you can to stick with it (which is basically what you'll have to do for medical school anyway). It won't require an insane amount of time if you stick to your schedule every day.

👍👍👍

 

[funniful]

I remember our midterm averages were 40-50%. Most of us were happy to scrape by with a 40% understanding of the material and then glare at the one kid who always set the curve. We were usually just thrown a molecule and asked to synthesize it in a series of steps based on the reactions we learned. Not only did we have to memorize each of the reactions, but we also had to thoroughly understand the mechanisms and reactions to piece everything together. Orgo II was even worse as it builded upon everything in Orgo I which most people forgot over the summer and then some.

Study groups were the key to survival and poring over old exams to practice over and over again.

If you're really concerned about the pace and memorization, I would highly recommend buying the textbook beforehand and studying up over the summer to get familiar with the reactions so everything doesn't look so foreign when you start.

 

[Urnathok]

Transitioning from general to organic felt kind of like the stint of geometry in high school. People that hated algebra or did terribly in it seemed to inexplicably master geometry quickly, and vice versa. Similarly, the people who did really well in organic seemed to have hated general chemistry the most.

It's just different, and that adjustment can be rough to get used to quickly, so the difficulty gets blown out of proportion by either the people who really did have to fight uphill all year for a decent grade or the ones who like to look like tools by talking about how insane it was followed by the straight As they made in it.

 

[jr93]

I don't know. Since the vast majority of pharmaceuticals are organic compounds, and doctors are licensed to prescribe pharmaceuticals, it seems to me that they probably should have an understanding of what they're recommending that their patients put into their bodies. I guess I don't see that as "pointless."

We aren't pharmacists. There is a difference between knowing classes of drugs and being able to make them. Only one portion of a drugs shape is usually physiologically active. That's why pesticides are often hormone disruptor and you can have dozens of different pain meds that work on the same receptors. That doesn't mean you need to be able to make the drug from a crude oil byproduct.

 

[Spinach Dip]

On a scale of 1-100, Orgo is like walking across a field of mousetraps with a basket of eggs balanced on your head while your closest friends laugh at the fact that you aren't wearing any pants.



Know what I mean?

 

[sunflower18]

I can't get over how weird and gross the word "orgo" sounds.... Ick I just don't like it at all!!!!

Anyway, ochem is manageable if you practice often, study a lot, and figure out a way to see in three dimensions. Some people can manipulate molecules mentally. Others have to build them. Others have to draw them. Figure out a system that reliably works for you. Stereochem is the first big hurdle, so that will be important.

As for reactions and mechanisms, they're basically puzzles. It's NOT about memorisation -- at least not in my college. It's about understanding the molecular properties that would entice the reaction, and just being able to figure out how it unfolds based on reactivity, stability, sterics, etc. There is some memorisation involved in knowing reagents, but that's about it. At least that's how I managed.

Ochem was by far my favourite class ever. Convinced me to be a chem major! I went in totally scared, mind you, and ended up top of my class. Another tip that I alluded to but I'll flesh out: immerse yourself in it if you want it to come naturally to you. I studied ochem at least an hour every day. I studied for tests weeks in advance. I reviewed my notes every night, did hundreds and hundreds of practice problems, made charts of things to know, etc. I thought about the subject a lot and went above and beyond to focus on it. It really really helped me because none of the information had a chance to become buried and inaccessible in my head.

Good luck! You'll do fine if you work at it 🙂 i dont think that most people are as intense about it as I was, which is fine. I just LOVED it is all.

 

[911 Turbo]

Rofl at all these SDNers trying to summarize how hard they think organic is....



It depends entirety on the professor you get OP. worthless trying to ask SDNers...

 

[Anastomoses]

We aren't pharmacists. There is a difference between knowing classes of drugs and being able to make them. Only one portion of a drugs shape is usually physiologically active. That's why pesticides are often hormone disruptor and you can have dozens of different pain meds that work on the same receptors. That doesn't mean you need to be able to make the drug from a crude oil byproduct.

100% agreed.

Transitioning from general to organic felt kind of like the stint of geometry in high school. People that hated algebra or did terribly in it seemed to inexplicably master geometry quickly, and vice versa. Similarly, the people who did really well in organic seemed to have hated general chemistry the most.

That was my experience exactly. I did not enjoy general chem and suffered originally with algebra/calculus. But started to (falsely) think I was a math genius in geometry/trig. And couldn't understand the fuss about organic.