How hard is premed at Northwestern University?

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Sobriquet

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I'm a freshman, and while I'm thinking about being premed all of my friends have been telling me how ridiculously hard the premed classes are here, especially bio. Are people just trying to scare me, or are the classes 5x more challenging than AP science classes in high school (which I didn't take either)? Thanks!

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It's not nearly as bad as everyone says it is. People like to talk about everything at NU like it's impossible (it makes them feel better for getting through it....or not getting through it). Those classes are difficult, of course, but it gets blown way out of proportion (med school is much much more work). Not to mention that over 90% of those who make it through will get at least one med school acceptance. Please don't let everyone else talk you out of it and you'll be fine--NU is great preparation for med school. I never got a higher grade than B+ in the bio series and I got 7 acceptances (4 top-20), so study hard and don't worry. If you have any other questions, feel free to PM me.
 
I dunno, I had some trouble with the premed classes at NU and I know a bunch of other people who did too. I definitely think it's doable, though, if you're smart about it. Don't take Orgo and Bio together if you can avoid it (lots of people even go to Harvard for summer bio, but that's kind of lame). I had some trouble because my GPA was pretty low after fresh year (3.0) and I needed to do really well to get it up (so I got A's in Orgo and Bio taking them together). Just be prepared to work and make friends with a few other premeds because it is kind of depressing to spend nights at home studying while your entire sorority is out partying. Good luck with everything.
 
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I don't think being pre-med at NU is all that terrible, but the curves can be tough and there's a lot of competition. But that's just like at any other school. As long as you put the time into it and make the effort to really understand the material, you will do fine! At first, my attitude towards the science classes was just to learn enough to get by, but once you get to Orgo or Bio, you really need to understand what you're doing if you want to do well. In my opinion, NU does a great job at preparing you for the MCATs.
 
I was pre-med at NU, and I've always said that the intro Bio class was probably the hardest class I ever took. There is a world of difference between this bio class and AP Bio which I also took. The tests don't just test your knowledge but your ability to apply it. I remember, for example, when we were learning about the chemical structure of DNA (yeah not too hard.. just have to be able to draw out each base) but the question on the test showed a molecule of the AIDS drug, AZT, gave some background on how AIDS spreads in the body and asked how the drug might work. The answer was that it looked kind of like one of the bases minus the part which would link another DNA molecule thereby stopping replication. You can study your brains out about the structure of DNA but you need brains to get through the rest.

Even though it's hard, I did fine, just takes some effort. Good luck
 
Oh no! I'm planning on taking my year of G Chem this summer at Northwestern--is this a bad idea? I know I'm going to have to be prepared to basically devote my entire existance to chem this summer but should I look into trying to take it somewhere else? Is it that impossible? 😱
 
mrezai and others, how did you find the intro chem class to be? I'm a Northwestern PhD student thinking about eventually doing an MD, so I'm starting to think about taking some pre-med classes. Do you think I should start out with chem instead of bio? Does it help at all to buy the book in advance and try to learn some material before the class starts? Thanks!
 
PsychStudent said:
mrezai and others, how did you find the intro chem class to be? I'm a Northwestern PhD student thinking about eventually doing an MD, so I'm starting to think about taking some pre-med classes. Do you think I should start out with chem instead of bio? Does it help at all to buy the book in advance and try to learn some material before the class starts? Thanks!

at NU, if you want to take general biology (the 200 series), you have to have taken general chemistry already and you have to have either already taken the organic chemistry sequence or you can take the two at the same time. There is a 100-level general biology sequence offered only during the summer. for that, you don't need to have taken organic chemistry, but you have to have already passed through the general chemistry sequence for sure. i would definitely think about taking general chemistry and physics first, if you're looking to group two sciences together at a time. if you have the time, i'd split up organic chem and bio, maybe organic one year and bio the next. as some people have said, it's not impossible to take the two together. i, however, had a hard enough time with each sequence on it's own. it might be tougher for you, considering you're working on your phd at the same time. best of luck.
 
Sobriquet said:
I'm a freshman, and while I'm thinking about being premed all of my friends have been telling me how ridiculously hard the premed classes are here, especially bio. Are people just trying to scare me, or are the classes 5x more challenging than AP science classes in high school (which I didn't take either)? Thanks!

i'll give my input as well. i agree with what j33 said, it's not as bad as people make it out to be. however, pre-med at northwestern definitely was very difficult. difficult material, very intelligent students, people who are obsessed about getting into med school (or whose parents are), etc etc. i think you'll find that at any competitive school. talking to those who attended other competitive schools, however, it seems to me that the curves might be a little less lenient at NU. i always thought it was just a rumor (anti-inflation, blah blah blah), but maybe it's true somewhat. who knows. i will comment on a student from duke that was in my summer bio class who said the NU students seemed a lot more intense than the ones in his pre-med classes there. that's the only comparison i have. whatever though, you probably have an idea of what you're getting yourself into. NU will prepare you well for the MCAT and, as long as you put the effort in, you'll most likely get into a medical school. best of luck.
 
Medstylee- Thanks so much for your help! I think I'll go ahead and take chem next year and see how it goes. I thought about taking a science class this summer, but with my crappy science background I'd probably be better off not trying to learn a year's worth of material in nine weeks. Just curious, but do any of your remember having grad students in your basic science classes? I wonder if I'll be the only one (not that it really matters I suppose). Thanks again!
 
PsychStudent said:
Medstylee- Thanks so much for your help! I think I'll go ahead and take chem next year and see how it goes. I thought about taking a science class this summer, but with my crappy science background I'd probably be better off not trying to learn a year's worth of material in nine weeks. Just curious, but do any of your remember having grad students in your basic science classes? I wonder if I'll be the only one (not that it really matters I suppose). Thanks again!

i'm sure it's pretty rare. although, i know that a phd student in the lab i researched in was taking some of the upper level neurobiology courses. if you take the courses through the school of continuing studies (in the evenings), i'm sure there will be plenty of students who have already have degrees. if you take the course during the day, however, you'll probably be the only grad student or one of the only grad students. i'm sure it won't matter though. good luck.
 
I took both bio and physics in the summers of '00 and '01 and I found it to be very advantageous. Bio was way easier than it would have been during the year, and both classes had pretty good professors minus one quarter of bio (and it's 3 weeks for 1 quarter of bio, you can live through an atrocious professor). I was a psych major so psychstudent feel free to pm me. The premeds taking bio are non-science majors, so some of the craziness is reduced, and although I think the curve was the same as always, I think there may have been a tiny bit more leniency because it's during the summer. However, this was quite some time ago. I was always much stronger at bio so I found it to be very managable, but physics I had to work at much more. Physics was especially annoying because we had a quiz every day so you had to keep on your toes. I also worked part time during both summers, but I was able to study while working. I'll admit that I found physics to be my weakest point for MCAT's, but I don't think it's attributed to me taking it in the summer- I think it was just my personal weakness.

I don't remember how many "adults" (non-undergrad) were in my physics class, but in bio I recall there was a high school bio teacher wanting to refresh his genetics (who we always thought was ruining the curve 😛), and several post-baccs.

In terms of pre-med at NU in general...Lots of it is how you play the game. My best advice is to do your darned best to get the best professors (if the summer profs are bad think hard if you want to do it over the summer). This seemed to be especially important for orgo and physics. Make sure you balance your schedule out well so you aren't overworked. Have one "fun" class, 1-2 classes for your major or one distro, and one to two science classes per quarter. Don't overdo the reading or the math/science too much in one quarter unless you are very good at one of the two. And for most of the premed classes, do problems until you are blue (and get a hold of old tests!) 😛 😛
 
Wanna know a little secret? It's not harder at NU than it is at any other major school. You're getting the same education as everyone else. The difficulty which individuals at NU are describing is most likely a defense mechanism in response to the tuition at NU. The real difficulty, if you will, is being able to pay for med school after paying $30,000+ for the same education you would get at a public school!
 
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g3pro said:
Wanna know a little secret? It's not harder at NU than it is at any other major school. You're getting the same education as everyone else. The difficulty which individuals at NU are describing is most likely a defense mechanism in response to the tuition at NU. The real difficulty, if you will, is being able to pay for med school after paying $30,000+ for the same education you would get at a public school!

i would have to disagree with this to some extent.

the trick to doing well as a premed at northwestern is to do as well as possible in your manageable classes like calc and physics and gen chem. bio and orgo are quite difficult and intense here, the bio sequence especially is tough because of the curve and the distribution of grades, much more difficult than i've experienced at ivy league schools like penn and harvard. its partly because northwestern doesn't encourage people to take a 100 level bio sequence. the bio at northwestern starts at 200 level, but its even more intense than any of the 300 and 400 level classes i took there.

in fact, while i was at northwestern, i knew of at least 30-50 pre-meds each year who either skipped out on the 200 level bio sequence or had to drop it for whatever reason only to take in the summer, most of the people i knew took bio at harvard over the summer. all of those people always came back with A's or A-'s, while many of us struggled day and night to get B-'s.

its tough also because of the pace and duration of these sequences for all the prereq subjects because we're talking about 3 quarters, so orgo and bio 3 times each, even though our quarter is really only 2 weeks shorter than a normal semester. on top of that, the slightly shortened schedule makes the exam schedule pretty intense as well, from the second week on, you'll pretty much have at least 3 exams a week every week. oh and also labs, in all of our prereq science classes, you take labs concurrently. so you have orgo, bio, and physics lab every week (3-5 hours of lab and a prep lecutre) for an entire 3 quarters, an entire year. most schools do a single separate lab class. so add at least 15 hours of labs to your schedule every week all year, if you're premed.

from a content perspective, to be honest at northwestern, the bio and orgo sequences essentially cover in the first 2 quarters pretty much everything that gets covered at normal semester schools in 2 semesters. the 3rd semesters of bio and orgo go into a lot more depth. i know this from personally taking classes and comparing curriculums between northwestern, penn, harvard, and columbia.

but like i said, mostly its the duration of these classes, the scheduling of exams coupled with long labs all year that makes premed at NU tough. bio and orgo are a little extra tough, but check it out, if you can manage to do well in calc, physics and gen chem, as long as you do average in orgo and bio, and then do well in some easier upper level bio classes, you're set, you'll be well above average and also well prepared for the mcats.
 
So what makes bio so hard at these schools like NU? I go to a state school and I don't really find it to hard, and I still have learned pretty much everythings through all the books. What type of questions makes your tests harder then mine down here at Umass? Do they give you a bunch of tedious work that is pointless or something?
 
thats a good question.

my experience has been, what makes it hard is the level of detail that professors expect you to know the material. a lot of times, depending on the particular professors, i've had classes where the mean score on the test out of 100 pts was a 33, and the high score was in the 50's. also, the way the administer exams, i'll give you an example, there's one professor who gives tests that are multiple choice, but zero, one, two, three, or four choices could be right. there's no actual choice for "none of the above" or "all of the above". for every answer you cirlce correctly, you get a pt, for every one you circle that shouldn't have been circled you lose a pt. and all the choices are loaded, so you have to know it really really well. if you circle nothing on your entire paper, you get 0 pts, and if you circle them all, you could actually have negative pts. (there are other sections to take the pts from). the whole time you're sitting there gritting your teeth.

many of the bio professors also require you to not just memorize a lot of information but understand things well enough where you can design relatively complex experiments during the test.

truthfully, i think the amount of material we see might be a little more than some other schools, but i don't necessarily think at the end of the course we've retained any more information than anyone anywhere else. and once you realize that, its like a double whammy. thats probably why the bitterness and stories take their birth.

for bio, the grading does kills us though. 300 some people in your bio class, only 11-12 will get A's, more than half the class will get between a B- and a C-. and the standard deviations are pretty close, so you have to do really well just to be in the ballpark of the mean only to get a C+. oh and after the first exam, a lot of the people that were below you may drop the class, so the mean for the class rises, but the distribution doesn't so you get screwed, and it almost feels like you're not controlling your fate at all.

but like i said, its mostly the atmosphere and schedules that make it feel really hard. i had my struggles, but i definitely think its manageable at NU if you play your cards right.
 
i want to add something - i do feel that i learned the basic science material very thoroughly at nu. i was in a small group workshop the other day, and i felt like i really had a better general understanding of the topics we were discussing. i felt like i was just kind of reinforcing or maybe elaborating on themes i was familiar with already. i'm definitely thankful for that.

also, i think, if you can learn to handle the studying properly, pre-med at a quarter system school (where you have tests every 3 weeks or so) will prepare you really well for the way you are going to have to study in medical school.

on a random note - i just interviewed two prospective students for nu (undergrad) the other day, both of whom were "extremely pre-med." it's funny for me to think that i had no interest in medicine back then.
 
Wow...this makes me glad that I'm going to a state school 🙂
 
Another thing that makes the premed classes at NU harder is the caliber of students who attend. There's no dumb jock or punk rock slacker in the corner to help bring the curve down. I'd say at least 10-15% of NU students were valedictorian of their high schools and 90% were in the top 10% of their HS class. These students are smart, work hard, and have the desire to be top-of-the-class in college as well. All of which certainly make for some interesting competition.

Another thing that kind of bothers me about NU is that, while it's a top school, it definitely doesn't enjoy the reputation that the Ivies do. It seems to me (and I've heard from other people) that our small midwestern school feels it has something to prove to the other top-tier universities. One of the ways to do this is to make the courses more challenging, keep the class averages at a B-/C+ (which is what they are for the premed classes) and turn out higher standardized test scores.

P.S. To slightly disagree with the previous poster, although the exam schedule is difficult, I can only recall 2-3 (or maybe 3-4) times when I had two exams in one week. The Orgo and the Bio department try to ease the blow of taking these two difficult classes concurrently by alternating the exam schedule. Of course, this still means that by the third week of every quarter I had an exam every week, so you're still left playing the horrible game of "take bio test, get a week behind in Orgo; catch up in Orgo, get behind in Bio; reverse; reverse; reverse; get caught up on everything for finals" which I've heard is similar to the med school test-taking strategy.
 
Very interesting on the Tests down there at NU. And I see where you are coming from with the competition because at my high school our valivictorian went a far distance to go to NU. But dam... people are getting 30's and 40's... thank god for that scale. My classes usually don't have a scale... most of the time it is 1100 out of 1000 points which isn't to bad I guess.
 
VFrank said:
Another thing that kind of bothers me about NU is that, while it's a top school, it definitely doesn't enjoy the reputation that the Ivies do. It seems to me (and I've heard from other people) that our small midwestern school feels it has something to prove to the other top-tier universities.

Dunno who you are talking to, but Northwestern enjoys a national reputation for being a very rigorous and intellectually "prestigious" U, easily on par with the best in the country. Whatever you do, don't confuse "prestige" with reputation of quality education. As I am sure you know by now, when you are talking about top 20 schools there is no difference in quality of education, although there are real differences in student culture (as with any school).

BTW, no one benefits more from the Ivy prestige factor than the Ivies and their graduates therefore they work hard to propogate the prestige perception. An NU education rocks. And no one will question that. Period.

FYI, I didn't go to NU. And I think Ivies give you an awesome ed, too.
 
g3pro said:
Wanna know a little secret? It's not harder at NU than it is at any other major school. You're getting the same education as everyone else.

You wanna know another little secret, you probably haven't taken classes at NU to make the comparison. Kudos to you for saving some cash but I have taken classes at Pomona, Hopkins, NU, and Arizona State. Uhm, there are serious differences between the major privates and state schools. And I took engineering and hard science classes.
 
Reckoning said:
You wanna know another little secret, you probably haven't taken classes at NU to make the comparison. Kudos to you for saving some cash but I have taken classes at Pomona, Hopkins, NU, and Arizona State. Uhm, there are serious differences between the major privates and state schools. And I took engineering and hard science classes.

which would you say is harder: NW or UChicago premed? I heard U Chicago is even more demanding than NW...
 
Man, you guys have me a little scared about bio and orgo! So calc, general chem, and physics aren't quite as intensive and difficult? Does it help if one reads the book in advance and self-teaches a bit? Thanks for everyone's comments so far.
 
One good thing is that I found Northwestern undergrad harder than medical school (at least so far), so if you get through it and get into medical school ... you are golden 🙂
 
PublicEnemy said:
many of the bio professors also require you to not just memorize a lot of information but understand things well enough where you can design relatively complex experiments during the test.

truthfully, i think the amount of material we see might be a little more than some other schools, but i don't necessarily think at the end of the course we've retained any more information than anyone anywhere else. and once you realize that, its like a double whammy. thats probably why the bitterness and stories take their birth.

Yeah, that's pretty standard testing procedure here at the same schools here. Yes, I understand that people are bitter because of the grading but the curriculum is the same everywhere else (it might even be better at the public schools). Less than 10% of the people in a class getting A's is ridiculous, but it's specious and short-sighted to say that the material is more difficult. My mid-level bio classes use graduate-level textbooks and the professors expect you to know almost everything about it. I bet it's the same for you.

I think the lesson here is: don't go to NU if they are being bastards about grading. You can get the same education elsewhere without being punished by NU's defective grading system.



Reckoning said:
You wanna know another little secret, you probably haven't taken classes at NU to make the comparison. Kudos to you for saving some cash but I have taken classes at Pomona, Hopkins, NU, and Arizona State. Uhm, there are serious differences between the major privates and state schools. And I took engineering and hard science classes.


Can you give me examples of where the Ivy's teach about elite topics in class while the public schools preach to the dum-dums?
 
g3pro said:
Can you give me examples of where the Ivy's teach about elite topics in class while the public schools preach to the dum-dums?

Uhm, I would never say that. (??) Having taken classes at a state school does not qualify me (or you) as a dum-dum.

The difference in the regularity of having my ass handed to me in classes at Pomona, NU, and hopkins compared to ASU was significant. Generally the tests were harder (and likely more difficult to grade than the larger state school classes) and were more ambitious in the material they covered.

My overarching feeling is that you have more competitive and hardworking students (per capita) at the top tier privates which skews the grading and freedom of Prof's to delve more deeply into material in the... uhm more difficult direction.

BTW, I'll be the first one to say that the Ivy prestige is little more than a great marketing plug.
 
How hard is the orgo series at NU? I hear a lot about it from students as being really hard, but I'm thinking its just like any other orgo class and that the difficulty is due to it being a lot of work and materials you wouldn't generally see.
 
Duke's pretty rough, so NU must be fairly intense if this guy said it was harder by comparison. In Cell Biology last semester, for example, the median grade was a C+. Median, not mean.

Z
 
g3pro said:
Wanna know a little secret? It's not harder at NU than it is at any other major school. You're getting the same education as everyone else.

Damn straight, g3pro.
 
Zephyrus said:
Duke's pretty rough, so NU must be fairly intense if this guy said it was harder by comparison. In Cell Biology last semester, for example, the median grade was a C+. Median, not mean.

Z


Is that supposed to be unusually tough? EVERY biology class at UCSD is graded with 50th percentile being equivalent to a C+. Public schools don't have to cater to their students; they give what they want to give.
 
mrezai said:
I was pre-med at NU, and I've always said that the intro Bio class was probably the hardest class I ever took. There is a world of difference between this bio class and AP Bio which I also took. The tests don't just test your knowledge but your ability to apply it. I remember, for example, when we were learning about the chemical structure of DNA (yeah not too hard.. just have to be able to draw out each base) but the question on the test showed a molecule of the AIDS drug, AZT, gave some background on how AIDS spreads in the body and asked how the drug might work. The answer was that it looked kind of like one of the bases minus the part which would link another DNA molecule thereby stopping replication. You can study your brains out about the structure of DNA but you need brains to get through the rest.

Even though it's hard, I did fine, just takes some effort. Good luck

reminds me of my killer intro bio class at my small liberal arts college. bio I is definately the weeder course at my college when the class average is a 70.
 
if i may add wake forest to this mix...our class average in organic one was a whopping 54...and i mean that seriously...with our teacher evenning that out with a bell curve, i believe that came out to be a C- average.
 
if you go to northwestern and want a break, do yourself a favor and take biology over the summer at harvard. a large number of premeds at nu choose to do that each year. i know a lot who took that route and most of them ended up getting A's easily. i was stubborn and busted my butt over the summer at nu to pull B+s. i used to think the harvard thing was a cop-out. but, honestly, i feel stupid that i didn't do it now. it would have helped my gpa out.
 
I don't understand why people at state schools get off on telling people at private colleges that their state university classes are just as hard/harder. The fact that the class average is a 70 or 54 or 12 means absolutely nothing if the class mean SAT is ~1100. Everything else being equal, if the mean SAT score is closer to 1500 and half of the class was his or her HS's valedictorian, you are looking at a much more difficult curve.

For what it's worth, I go to a state school AND I think private tuition is a waste of $140,000. But a direct comparison of class averages is not a good indication of one school being easier/harder than another.
 
"Public schools don't have to cater to their students; they give what they want to give." by previous poster

Let me clarify a few misconceptions you seem to have about grade inflation as a national trend. Certain schools are hugely overinflated (Harvard being the prime example), but the simple dichotomy of public/private and socioeconomic "catering" is about 95% crap. Princeton recently voted to limit the number of A's that can be given out in a class. MIT is a notorious ball-buster. Exorbitant liberal art colleges are known for being some of the toughest graders around. Duke, while the average GPA of undergraduates has drifted from a 3.1 to a 3.3 in the past few decades, is on par with the national norm -- including public schools such as the UCs, with the exception of Riverside because, as you will find if you took the time to peruse www.gradeinflation.com, many of the students who go there find themselves unprepared to successfully tackle college-level work-- thus, deflation has occurred.

Grade inflation is a NATIONAL epidemic, not one localized to the stuffy bastions of elitism which many are so eager to decry.

You might also want to consider this. Take two lecture courses with X students each. One is a top-ranked private school and the other is a public school for which admission is competitive but not exceptionally so. Both are respectable schools in their own right. But the quality, drive, and competitiveness of the student populations clearly differ, as may the difficulty of the coursework (probably more of the former than the latter, as I am willing to allow that classes can be quite difficult at a university despite a mediocre reputation overall). So you can't fairly equate school averages. In fact, if these two schools are inflating nationally at about the same rate, the private school is actually the more difficult in terms of effort required to earn those GPA "quality points" and distinguish oneself from peers.

Z
 
Sobriquet said:
I'm a freshman, and while I'm thinking about being premed all of my friends have been telling me how ridiculously hard the premed classes are here, especially bio. Are people just trying to scare me, or are the classes 5x more challenging than AP science classes in high school (which I didn't take either)? Thanks!

Stop and think about it.. The whole class cannot fail.. Obviously 10%-20% of the class gets A's.. if you can't get A's or B's.. then there are that many people who would study harder and crush you in medical school..
Don't forget there are probably those people who are getting B's or C's.. who just are lazy.. but if they turned up their study habits.. could crush the class too..

Try a class out and see if you can compete while still having a life with friends and maybe a lil Halo 2 :laugh:
 
Anyone have specific experience wit their orgo though? My cousin is trying to see if he should take it his first year and from my experience I didn't think orgo is too hard, but it really can depend on your school and class. I originally told him to do it but after seeing this thread I am now not sure cuz NU seems way more difficult then I thought it was.
 
youngin said:
Anyone have specific experience wit their orgo though? My cousin is trying to see if he should take it his first year and from my experience I didn't think orgo is too hard, but it really can depend on your school and class. I originally told him to do it but after seeing this thread I am now not sure cuz NU seems way more difficult then I thought it was.

a lot of people say that bio is the most difficult at nu, but i had the hardest time with organic. it's probably in your cousin's interest to take orgo as a freshman. if he has the opportunity to take orgo first year, that means he must have gotten a 5 on the chem AP. with that, he's probably smart enough in chemistry to handle it first year. one definite advantage of doing that is that he can take biology sophomore year and not have to worry about taking bio and orgo together (which is killer, apparently). the one thing about bio at northwestern is that you need to take organic first or concurrently with bio (unless you take the biology 110 series that is only offered during the summers). if your cous takes orgo as a freshman, he/she can take bio soph year and either take physics alongside bio or during junior year. if he/she takes physics and bio soph year, then he/she will be able to take the mcat that august (of soph year). still, it would be no big deal to take the mcat junior year in april while taking physics. the mcat comes right around the beginning of 3rd quarter which, in physics, is optics & waves. it's the least important part of physics for the mcat, so it prob wouldn't make a difference that he hadn't finished it yet before the mcat. wow, that got long. hopefully it was helpful.
 
medstylee said:
a lot of people say that bio is the most difficult at nu, but i had the hardest time with organic. it's probably in your cousin's interest to take orgo as a freshman. if he has the opportunity to take orgo first year, that means he must have gotten a 5 on the chem AP. with that, he's probably smart enough in chemistry to handle it first year. one definite advantage of doing that is that he can take biology sophomore year and not have to worry about taking bio and orgo together (which is killer, apparently). the one thing about bio at northwestern is that you need to take organic first or concurrently with bio (unless you take the biology 110 series that is only offered during the summers). if your cous takes orgo as a freshman, he/she can take bio soph year and either take physics alongside bio or during junior year. if he/she takes physics and bio soph year, then he/she will be able to take the mcat that august (of soph year). still, it would be no big deal to take the mcat junior year in april while taking physics. the mcat comes right around the beginning of 3rd quarter which, in physics, is optics & waves. it's the least important part of physics for the mcat, so it prob wouldn't make a difference that he hadn't finished it yet before the mcat. wow, that got long. hopefully it was helpful.

Thanks, I'll tell him. I may tell him to pm you, he uses my account on occasion. BTW, why are these classes hard? Is it just the material itself or really how NU teaches (curve harder, more in depth, ect...)? I thought orgo was hard but I expect it to be equally hard anywhere like with bio which I thought wasn't hard except that at my school we had a weird curve.
 
Sobriquet said:
I'm a freshman, and while I'm thinking about being premed all of my friends have been telling me how ridiculously hard the premed classes are here, especially bio. Are people just trying to scare me, or are the classes 5x more challenging than AP science classes in high school (which I didn't take either)? Thanks!

Premed is tough anywhere you go. 95% of people sitting in your first yr bio class want to be doctors. I can guarantee you that.
 
I love how people are so self-important that they establish whatever school they are at must therefore be the hardest and best school around. I'm all for having school pride, but this idea that all students/material are the same from school to school is absolute bull**** and you know it. Stop wasting people's time.

If you MUST compare, use analytical measurements such as average SAT's and % of students in the top 10% of their HS class.

Look at the % of medical students that come from a ugrad (ie hopkins has ~25% of it's class going to medical school) or the average MCAT (Princeton/Duke/MIT = ~32).

I even think looking at national competitions such as the Peabody would make sense on some level.

I personally agree 100% with Mbkcd. Looking at two classes that have 55% averages means nothing till you know the background of the class. Also, if you're a UCSD student, I don't even know how you can argue up your school when we all know you and your classmates got rejected from UCLA AND Berk!
 
Hakashi said:
Premed is tough anywhere you go. 95% of people sitting in your first yr bio class want to be doctors. I can guarantee you that.

Yeah tell that to my two gpa's: my Duke gpa (~3.2) and my state school gpa (4.0). Also, tell that to my MCAT which is > than the average accepted medical school student.

State school was a hell of a lot easier. In fact, I can say there were only two exams that I studied for more than the day of or the night before (biochem II and physio). It was cute to see all of my classmates struggling with algebra and HS biology though. I did enjoy my time at state school more though (since it was blatantly easier and people wanted to socialize more).
 
Peterock said:
Yeah tell that to my two gpa's: my Duke gpa (~3.2) and my state school gpa (4.0). Also, tell that to my MCAT which is > than the average accepted medical school student.

State school was a hell of a lot easier. In fact, I can say there were only two exams that I studied for more than the day of or the night before (biochem II and physio). It was cute to see all of my classmates struggling with algebra and HS biology though. I did enjoy my time at state school more though (since it was blatantly easier and people wanted to socialize more).

I was pointing out state vs state school and private vs private school.

For example in Canada every school is a 'state' school so they're all pretty much the same. In the US, state school = other state school and private school = other private school.
 
youngin said:
Thanks, I'll tell him. I may tell him to pm you, he uses my account on occasion. BTW, why are these classes hard? Is it just the material itself or really how NU teaches (curve harder, more in depth, ect...)? I thought orgo was hard but I expect it to be equally hard anywhere like with bio which I thought wasn't hard except that at my school we had a weird curve.

well, i think the reason bio is really difficult at nu is because it comes after some of the "weed-out classes" (aka pre-med classes). your classmates in the biology 210 series have already finished gen chem or passed out of it and they are either in orgo or many have already finished orgo. so, most of the kids who weren't able to cut it at premed are already out. i think the competition is stiffer between classmates at that point. if bio was the first series that could be taken at nu, i think the distribution of scores would be a lot wider (more like gen chem). so, i don't think it really has anything to do with the fact that the professors are more difficult. i just think that at nu, or any other highly competitive school, most of the people in the class are highly intelligent and driven (like many others have pointed out in this thread). your cousin can feel free to pm me, no prob.
 
Hakashi said:
I was pointing out state vs state school and private vs private school.

For example in Canada every school is a 'state' school so they're all pretty much the same. In the US, state school = other state school and private school = other private school.

It would be interesting to know how students at respective Canadian schools view each other. I'm guessing the schools that have more competitive admissions are seen as having more difficult programs.
Craziness, I know.
 
Mbkcd said:
I don't understand why people at state schools get off on telling people at private colleges that their state university classes are just as hard/harder.
Pride. Probably because they feel like they have to keep up. Course difficulty can depend on the professor and the particular class that year (less so with the latter). I think that what you get out of your education is comparable to what you put into it.
 
Peterock said:
It would be interesting to know how students at respective Canadian schools view each other. I'm guessing the schools that have more competitive admissions are seen as having more difficult programs.
Craziness, I know.

Every undergraduate university here is pretty much regarded the same by medical admissions comitees. However, among students there is the same 'OMG MY SCHOOL IS LIEK 20000X HARDER THAN YOURS. IF I WENT THERE I WOULD GET ALL 100S' like there is in the US
 
premed is hard everywhere. its hard as hell at my "elite" LAC, and its hard as hell at state schools like UCLA. just give up now if you are worried about it being hard. gosh i hate how once you get into the process to med school a part of you that is spontaneous and free spirited just dies.
 
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