How is the job outlook? Is optometry worth it?

[amar314]

Hello. I just graduated HS this year and I'm starting college in the fall. I've been interested in optometry for about 3 years now. It seems like a very clean, happy, and rewarding profession. Like many people, I'm interested in this career because I have been seeing an optometrist for 10 years now, and I have always observed what they do, and I know that I would love working in that environment.

I have been reading many negative aspects of the career on this section and it worries me to begin taking courses that will be useless if i'm not going to optometry school. Why do so many optometrists on here not enjoy their jobs?

One thing that has me on the edge about optometry is the fact that it's so closely related to ophthalmology, and that the differences between the two are getting slimmer and slimmer. Could this possibly mean that optometry will be useless in the future?

After I finish optometry school (or residency?), how difficult is it to get a job? I don't want to get into something that will pile on debt with no chance of finding a well-paying job.

Thank you everyone!

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[pudgie84]

Hello. I just graduated HS this year and I'm starting college in the fall. I've been interested in optometry for about 3 years now. It seems like a very clean, happy, and rewarding profession. Like many people, I'm interested in this career because I have been seeing an optometrist for 10 years now, and I have always observed what they do, and I know that I would love working in that environment.

I have been reading many negative aspects of the career on this section and it worries me to begin taking courses that will be useless if i'm not going to optometry school. Why do so many optometrists on here not enjoy their jobs?

One thing that has me on the edge about optometry is the fact that it's so closely related to ophthalmology, and that the differences between the two are getting slimmer and slimmer. Could this possibly mean that optometry will be useless in the future?

After I finish optometry school (or residency?), how difficult is it to get a job? I don't want to get into something that will pile on debt with no chance of finding a well-paying job.

Thank you everyone!

have you tried searching the forum on this? about 99% of the posts on here are about or end up being about this topic, lol

 

[amar314]

have you tried searching the forum on this? about 99% of the posts on here are about or end up being about this topic, lol

Yeah, I looked around but can't find anything specific.

 

[vistaril]

Yeah, I looked around but can't find anything specific.

if you are 17-18 or so and had access to a working computer with internet, this forum and time to search and couldnt 'find anything specific', I'd suggest that doesnt predict good things.

 

[amar314]

if you are 17-18 or so and had access to a working computer with internet, this forum and time to search and couldnt 'find anything specific', I'd suggest that doesnt predict good things.

Wow, I'm very glad to have found such a supporting forum. Thank you both for such helpful answers. I now know why people on here don't like their job, it has nothing to do with optometry but more with their attitudes.

 

[OhhDee]

I'm still a pre-opt starting school this fall, but from my research there are jobs out there...the issue is whether or not the money is there. That seems to depend on how choosy you are on where you want to live. A lot of new grads work part time at a couple different offices before they find a place to stick full time.

 

[q1we3]

Do something else

 

[PROBOSS]

Here is a link to another thread, it only covers the unemployment part though. Hope this helps! http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=1007409

 

[PROBOSS]

Just read this post, might want to take a carful look at it. P.S. this is on the thread that I have a link to, look at that thread to get a little backround!

Back to the original topic: The reasons the poster listed for becoming an OD are insufficient in my opinion. I actually thought this whole thread was a joke, or if the poster had written it when intoxicated. If I were on an admissions committee and read something so ridiculous as that in an application, that person would not even be given an interview.



The job of optometrist is a serious job. It is not a joke. It won't be fun. It will not be "laid back" once Obamacare hits. Lots of private practices are gearing up for O-day by doubling their load. That means 20-30 exams a day. That's not laid back, nor fun and actually I think I might find myself another non-medical career. I've had a good run. But really, if optometry becomes like that, it is not the profession I signed up for!



Reasons it will be ugly: Most patients will have their hrs cut by their employer to below minimum for employers to provide medical insurance. Less income means patients unwilling to pay out-of-pocket expenses. Less $$ for us. Lots won't have medical. Some employers are keeping dental and vision by switching to low cost vision plans such as Eyemed, Spectera, Davis and VSP, the four WORST reimbursing insurances out there. Or private people are seeking their own vision or dental coverage and many are going through one of the four insurances listed.



Spectera caps what you can make on exam/dispensing fees at around 120. Eyemed, Davis and VSP cap reimbursement for exam/hardware/dispensing fees at 200.



Obamacare will make the vision fee-for-service plans extinct. Only capped plans will remain: Eyemed, Davis, VSP, Spectera. That means the average private practice sale (after all the insurance adjustments) will go from 400 to 200.



To make the same amount of money, OD's are doubling the patient load. That means 20 minute exams in private practices, making no distinction between the quality of care found at commerical vs private practices. Obamacare will make private practices sweat shops for OD's.



You want to make 100K? Unrealistic. You might make 40K just out of school employed and maybe 80K in a busy commercial practice if you are the leaseholder. If you were really lucky and got the lease to a super busy established walmart and saw exams 15 minutes apart you could make 100K. That won't happen because those OD's won't give up those leases. If income is your motivation, don't go into optometry. The $$ isn't there anymore for new grads. Worse - the economy has delayed retirement for older OD's because they're waiting for their 401K'S to recover from the crash of 2008. Many are holding on to their practices until they're practically on their deathbed! It's sad. Also, a lot of older OD's want too much $$ for their practices. The private practices are decreasing in value because of managed care. It's really sad. This would be such a great profession if every OD over 65 just retired and either sold their practice to a new grad or did an owner carry deal. The old guys are working into their 80's. It's ridiculous.



ObamaCare may not affect commercial places, and ironically, you may actually get a better exam at Wal-Mart than private practice in the future because those practices have a majority of patients paying cash.



My point: You are entering a profession where you have to think fast work fast and will be stuck in a barely air-conditioned 10 by 10 dark room all day long with angry frustrated patients. They will be angry and frustrated for being treated like "cattle" (as one patient of mine phrased it) and for having to wait so long to see you. They will also be angry that you had a tech do your refraction for you. And that will make your day just fun.



That's your future. You won't have TIME to draw eyes! This isn't a profession for hippies or artists. It's a profession for fast-talking, fast thinking, energetic young people who can keep pace with the changing face of healthcare. Welcome to socialized medicine.



Sorry.



I may bag the whole thing myself! It may not be worth the trouble.



If you want a career as an ocularist, that may be ok, but the problem is that the field is saturated. Your clients have to be blind and medicine seems to be getting better at preventing that.



You might look into medical illustration. John's Hopkins has a killer program in that field. It's competitive though. You'll need to be really, really good at realistic drawing and you'll need to have a substantial portfolio of including most art forms from drawing to painting to sculpture.



Good luck. I just do not think optometry is for you at all. Seriously.



But don't take it personally. Not every person is suited for every career. That's why there are so many different career fields available.



You need to talk to a career counselor at your college and find out where your aptitudes lie and draw up on that.

 

[amar314]

Thank you OhhDee and PROBOSS! I had seen that other thread but didn't completely read that part. Ever since I posted this thread I've been researching and I'm starting to become interested in orthodontics. I know that the field of medicine has similar problems with insurances and all of that, but it's something that I really would enjoy doing. We'll see which field I end up going with. Thanks for the replies.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

Thank you OhhDee and PROBOSS! I had seen that other thread but didn't completely read that part. Ever since I posted this thread I've been researching and I'm starting to become interested in orthodontics. I know that the field of medicine has similar problems with insurances and all of that, but it's something that I really would enjoy doing. We'll see which field I end up going with. Thanks for the replies.

Orthodontics is part of dentistry, not medicine. Insurance issues aren't quite as bad in dentistry as they are in medicine.

 

[Unzbuzzled]

Just go into medicine. Chances are you'll find something that you like even more as you rotate through all the different fields. Medicine pays more and offers a larger scope of practice, which means more flexibility in the face of an evolving industry. And if you still want to prescribe glasses, you can do so as an ophthalmologist (not that that's a smart way to use your medical degree).

 

[Jason K]

....And if you still want to prescribe glasses, you can do so as an ophthalmologist (not that that's a smart way to use your medical degree).

You can practice the full scope of optometry (and beyond) with just an MD - no OD or ophthalmology residency required to prescribe glasses.

 

[Unzbuzzled]

You can practice the full scope of optometry (and beyond) with just an MD - no OD or ophthalmology residency required to prescribe glasses.

Really? Well, there you go, OP!

 

[Francis Liu]

I think you should focus on what field interests you more. Is it MD or OD or something else. The job market for ODs varies from region to region. There are saturated areas and some not. Good luck

 

[fjpod]

Although I ama little late to this conversation, I would respectfully disagree with just about everything proboss said. Optometry had not become what it is today because of Obama care. That one statement invalidates all of his arguments. There is no need for me to refute them one by one.

 

[hello07]

IMHO the good days of optometry are behind us. Those lucky enough to have graduated in the late 80's or early 90's did not realize how fortunate they were when they got out of school and started working. When I went looking for a job whether it be commercial private or even a clinic with ophthalmology there were 50 job openings no matter what modality of practice for 10 optometrists let's say. Today, there are 50 optometrists for every 10 openings. My analogy is today those young ODs getting out of school face a daunting task to make a comftably living especially if you have 150-200 thousand dollars in loans. A bleak and difficult road ahead. How will you get back your investment ?
Not to sound like a broken record but in saturated cities OD salaries have remained stagnant for 5-7 plus years and actually are lower due to rate of inflation and less buying power. Add 5 more OD schools that have opened up the past 5 years with more seats being filled each year and more graduates getting out and there you have it.
When you have low supply you have high demand and vice versa. The AOA has done nothing to stop this.
Good Luck on life journey. Choose carefully or you'll regret it.

 

[fjpod]

Merilly we troll along, troll along. .. you use no facts to back up your non-opinion.

 

[hello07]

Merilly we troll along, troll along. .. you use no facts to back up your non-opinion.

I'm not trolling along. I'm just stating the obvious. My facts? All the optometrists that graduated in the late 80's and early 90's and are practicing in the Northeast area can attest to my aforementioned.

 

[fjpod]

Exactly what I would expect a troll to say.

No response would ever satisfy you.

 

[hello07]

Exactly what I would expect a troll to say.

No response would ever satisfy you.

Never mind.......................

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Exactly what I would expect a troll to say.

No response would ever satisfy you.

So you think that there isn't any oversupply issue?

 

[Optogal]

Merilly we troll along, troll along. .. you use no facts to back up your non-opinion.

There are more optometry schools now than there were 25 years ago. (do you concede as fact?)
There are more optometry graduates, ergo, more optometrists in the job market now than there were 25 years ago. (do you concede as fact?)
The cost of tuition, ergo, the amount of a student loan to finance an OD education is more now than 25 years ago. (do you concede as fact?)
There are new factors in the market that are resulting in a non-trivial effect on the industry, e.g. online dispensing of glasses and contact lenses, that did not exist 25 years ago. (do you concede as fact?)

(I think) All of the above has exceeded increases in inflation and population (do you concede as fact?), so the situation in respect to the above factors are now "worse" than 25 years ago and are likely to make the industry more competitive as opposed to less-competitive, as compared to the situation 25 years ago. (do you concede as opinion?)

 

[Optogal]

fjpod's last 4 posts on SDN, verbatim:

Exactly what I would expect a troll to say.

No response would ever satisfy you.

That's what all trolls say.

Does anybody smell trolling here? If not you don't have an olfactory nerve.

Merilly we troll along, troll along. .. you use no facts to back up your non-opinion.

Some would argue that calling names and contributing nothing meaningful in terms of content constitutes the online "trolling" you are referring to in your posts.

 

[fjpod]

In no particular order...
The scope of practice of optometry has increased immensely over the past 25 to 35 years. I spend at least half of my day treating eye disease instead of "just refracting". In my practice, we provide a lot of routine eyecare, medical eyecare, vision therapy, low vision, and optical dispensing. If you think that as an optometrist you just have to "set up an optical shop" you will not make it. Competition from onliners, chains and opticians will eat you up.

Across the nation, there are fewer ophthalmological residencies over the past 25 years. More and more OMDs have gotten out of the business of primary and secondary eyecare and have limited themselves to surgical care. They have left a void in medical eyecare which optometry fills. There was zero opportunity to do this 35 years ago when there were only 13 optometry schools.

Consumers have more access to healthcare and demand more. The ACA will increase this. The ACA contains a mandatory pediatric eyecare/eyewear benefit (thanks to the AOA BTW).

More and more consumers are reaching their silver and golden years which are fraught with common and some uncommon ocular conditions. There is a ton of untreated glaucoma out there. There are tons of diabetics who need ongoing management.

I see these as opportunities. After practicing for 35 years (with 5 ODs, 4 LDOs), there are plenty of patients to see and income has never been at a higher level. I repeat...income has never been at a higher level.

So, IMHO, we need more optometry schools than we did 25 years ago. Can I cite you exact numbers?...no, but neither can you. BTW, I am not an AOA officer, nor am I an academic. I am a privately practicing optometrist. I would welcome new optometrists in my area as it would only raise the public awareness of US instead of THEM.

Now if your concept of becoming an optometrist includes running up $150K of debt by including living expenses, then you have made a bad LIFE decision...although I have seen many overcome this debt around me, including myself. So, in reality it may not be the worst decision...unless your endgoal is to work for a salary for the rest of your life.

So trolling I am not. I have 35 years of practicing full scope optometry behind me, and the tax returns to prove it. I look forward to 35 more.

 

[Optogal]

Thanks for sharing your opinion. I say this (honestly) without the least hint of sarcasm. It's good that there's an opposing viewpoint in this thread, but I think it is clear not everyone (I'm not saying I'm one of them) will agree. I can't comment on all the intricacies of your position as I'm Canadian and don't understand how healthcare is delivered in the U.S.

 

[fjpod]

Unfortunately forums like these are mostly made up of negative posters, or people who like to trash any topic just to get people like me to defend a position. They do not reflect what is really going on in a profession. Sure there are some struggling, but those succeeding rarely take time to comment.

 

[KHE]

In no particular order...
The scope of practice of optometry has increased immensely over the past 25 to 35 years. I spend at least half of my day treating eye disease instead of "just refracting". In my practice, we provide a lot of routine eyecare, medical eyecare, vision therapy, low vision, and optical dispensing. If you think that as an optometrist you just have to "set up an optical shop" you will not make it. Competition from onliners, chains and opticians will eat you up.

Across the nation, there are fewer ophthalmological residencies over the past 25 years. More and more OMDs have gotten out of the business of primary and secondary eyecare and have limited themselves to surgical care. They have left a void in medical eyecare which optometry fills. There was zero opportunity to do this 35 years ago when there were only 13 optometry schools.

Consumers have more access to healthcare and demand more. The ACA will increase this. The ACA contains a mandatory pediatric eyecare/eyewear benefit (thanks to the AOA BTW).

More and more consumers are reaching their silver and golden years which are fraught with common and some uncommon ocular conditions. There is a ton of untreated glaucoma out there. There are tons of diabetics who need ongoing management.

I see these as opportunities. After practicing for 35 years (with 5 ODs, 4 LDOs), there are plenty of patients to see and income has never been at a higher level. I repeat...income has never been at a higher level.

So, IMHO, we need more optometry schools than we did 25 years ago. Can I cite you exact numbers?...no, but neither can you. BTW, I am not an AOA officer, nor am I an academic. I am a privately practicing optometrist. I would welcome new optometrists in my area as it would only raise the public awareness of US instead of THEM.

Now if your concept of becoming an optometrist includes running up $150K of debt by including living expenses, then you have made a bad LIFE decision...although I have seen many overcome this debt around me, including myself. So, in reality it may not be the worst decision...unless your endgoal is to work for a salary for the rest of your life.

So trolling I am not. I have 35 years of practicing full scope optometry behind me, and the tax returns to prove it. I look forward to 35 more.

I can not agree with a lot of this.

The ACA will not save optometry. As I have said before, there are 320 million people in the USA. Of those, 30-40 million did not have health insurance, depending on who's numbers you want to believe. Let's assume 40 million. That means 280 million people DO have health insurance.

Practice management journals have reported that the average number of exams performed by optometrists has remained stagnant at 1.1 per hour for approximately 10 years now.

Let's pretend that every single uninsured person signed up for an ACA plan and that every single person then actually does get an eye exam (a large supposition) FROM AN OPTOMETRIST (an even larger one.)

That means that at best, you would expect a 12.5% increase in optometrist demand which means that the average number of exams performed by optometrists would rise to 1.24.
To me, that is not any reason to increase the number of schools by 5-6 and increase class sizes in other schools. Where is there any part of this country that has a populace lacking for optometric care?

Not only that, eye care in general and optometric care in particular is affordable. Even uninsured people have access to eye exams for $39.99 in most parts of the country. In many places, it's even less.

So I don't see the ACA as having any meaningful impact on demand for optometric care.


I also don't see the aging population as providing a massive increase in demand for optometric services either because the baby boomers have been presbyopic for 20 years and have been in the optometric pipeline for 20 years. Yes, we may get a few more office visits out of them as we monitor their cataracts and check their diabetes and clean up their blepharitis but getting a few extra 99213s out of an aging population is not nearly enough reason to open 5-6 more schools, especially when there already is a massive amount of underused optometric capacity.

 

[Commando303]

I also don't see the aging population as providing a massive increase in demand for optometric services either because the baby boomers have been presbyopic for 20 years and have been in the optometric pipeline for 20 years. Yes, we may get a few more office visits out of them as we monitor their cataracts and check their diabetes and clean up their blepharitis but getting a few extra 99213s out of an aging population is not nearly enough reason to open 5-6 more schools, especially when there already is a massive amount of underused optometric capacity.

 

[fjpod]

I never said the ACA will save optometry. IMHO, optometry doesn't need saving. But do you understand the impact of the childhood benefit? Not only are the uninsured children eligible, but all children covered by their parents' regular commercial health insurance are now covered for a routine exam and materials every year. It is a mandatory benefit included in the basic package of all commercial health insurance plans which must be ACA compliant. The ACA also makes it illegal for ERISA plans to exclude optometry as a class of provider.

I guess depending on your perspective, this is a big deal or not. In an insurance based practice (like mine), it should be helpful. If you are depending on the cash customer, maybe not so good. Let's face it. People like insurance and they like to use it.

 

[KHE]

I never said the ACA will save optometry. IMHO, optometry doesn't need saving. But do you understand the impact of the childhood benefit? Not only are the uninsured children eligible, but all children covered by their parents' regular commercial health insurance are now covered for a routine exam and materials every year. It is a mandatory benefit included in the basic package of all commercial health insurance plans which must be ACA compliant. The ACA also makes it illegal for ERISA plans to exclude optometry as a class of provider.

I guess depending on your perspective, this is a big deal or not. In an insurance based practice (like mine), it should be helpful. If you are depending on the cash customer, maybe not so good. Let's face it. People like insurance and they like to use it.

My practice is >95% insurance based and I still do not anticipate any meaningful benefit from the ACA in general, or the pediatric benefit in particular.

Again, eye exams are not expensive. Uninsured patients always had access to them at very low price points. Children who had insurance and were having problems were already covered. So where is this influx of patients going to be coming from? Even uninsured patients have been in the optometric pipeline.

The point about ERISA is legitimate. I am fortunate that I practice in an area where we are not getting screwed over as ERISA plans are not common but I have practiced in areas where they have been so that is a positive if you are in one of those areas.

I think if you already have a busy practice, the ACA will mean little. If you have a struggling practice looking for patients, I don't see the ACA bringing more than a scant few ppl through your doors.

 

[fjpod]

We'll see in a few years. I think in spite of all the hullabaloo over the startup, the impact of the ACA on healthcare as we now know it,will take a much longer period of time. I don't think it will be a boon to our practices...but I don't think it will hurt either. I think it will be somewhat positive, whereas, dentistry, for example, is not likely to be helped at all.

Keep in mind...as you say, your practice is 95% insurance, and so is mine, so the more insurance patients out there, the more will come your way. Another way of looking at it is...if people had no insurance and had to pay out of pocket for what we offer, much of that 95% would disappear (cold hard reality that is faced even by MDs). Also keep in mind that the insurance patient brings in more private dollars than the private patients do.

 

[KHE]

We'll see in a few years. I think in spite of all the hullabaloo over the startup, the impact of the ACA on healthcare as we now know it,will take a much longer period of time. I don't think it will be a boon to our practices...but I don't think it will hurt either. I think it will be somewhat positive, whereas, dentistry, for example, is not likely to be helped at all.

Keep in mind...as you say, your practice is 95% insurance, and so is mine, so the more insurance patients out there, the more will come your way. Another way of looking at it is...if people had no insurance and had to pay out of pocket for what we offer, much of that 95% would disappear (cold hard reality that is faced even by MDs). Also keep in mind that the insurance patient brings in more private dollars than the private patients do.

I agree that the ACA will likely neither help nor hurt most practices but I do strongly feel that we do NOT need additional schools or graduates and that the ACA is certainly not a reason to open more schools or produce more graduates. We already have a large amount of unused optometric capacity out there.