How long would you wait for a publication?

[alienarms]

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Hi all-for those of you who have experience working as an RA before applying to graduate school, I'd like to get some opinions on a problem. I got my B.A. in psych last May and have been working since September at a well-known psychiatric hospital as a clinical RA. I'm going to apply to clinical psych programs with neuropsychology tracks. The job is great; I'm getting a lot of patient contact and a lot of experience with fMRI, analysis, psychopathology, assessment, and I work hard, but here's my problem: Part of the reason I accepted this position over others is that I was effectively promised a publication by the time I applied to grad school. It turns out that our post-doc is a little slow in getting papers together and since the actual writing is not my responsibility, I can't do much about it. Is it appropriate to talk to our PI about my concerns regarding publication and admission to Ph.D. programs? How do I word it without sounding as if I'm making demands? He's pretty hands-on and I feel that he would probably listen, but I worry that I'd be overstepping my bounds as a lowly RA. Ha. Anyway, if you have suggestions I'd appreciate it...

 

[JatPenn]

You're not really over stepping any boundaries if this is something that was "promised" initially, but the reality is that getting RAs on publications tends to be a low priority at such institutions.

In order to counter this truth, I would simply take the initiative and begin writing yourself. Start with a methods/results section if the data are available. Submit them to your supervisor for feedback. This shows a real motivation to publish in a concrete manner.

And as always, be sure you want to publish your data for the right reasons: because they contribute to the literature, not simply because you want to pad your CV.

 

[Psyclops]

A couple of things come to mind: what JP said sounds great, do that. Also, I don't know what the politics of the place are like, and almost everywhere I have worked has some sort of politics that you need to be aware of, but if you approach your PI with concerns, and you do it in a defferent and respectful manner they should be able to tell you what to expect or what you can do to help your situation.

And as always, be sure you want to publish your data for the right reasons: because they contribute to the literature, not simply because you want to pad your CV

Alright, sure this is true on some sort of special research planet. But (sorry JP) at this point in your career don't feel bad about wanting that extra line on your CV. I would wager there isn't a researcher out there who hasn't put something together at some point for the express purpose of moving thier career along and not because it "added to the literature". All I'm saying is don't feel guilty about wanting to build that vita.

 

[Psyclops]

Some further toughts: If the paper is "in press" by the time you apply that is effectively the same. Or to some exstent if is is "under reveiw". Also, see if you can present some of the data with a poster at a conference.

Also, it has been my experience that an promise of authorship doesn't carry with it a gurantee of timelyness.

And again, watch out for those office politics. But you should be fine.

 

[JatPenn]

Alright, sure this is true on some sort of special research planet. But (sorry JP) at this point in your career don't feel bad about wanting that extra line on your CV. I would wager there isn't a researcher out there who hasn't put something together at some point for the express purpose of moving thier career along and not because it "added to the literature". All I'm saying is don't feel guilty about wanting to build that vita.

I respectfully disagree. At what point do we progress from merely doing as those before us did (publish for publishing's sake) and actually advance the field? This sort of behavior is what, at the moment, dooms psychology to a "lower-tier" science.

 

[lazure]

I respectfully disagree. At what point do we progress from merely doing as those before us did (publish for publishing's sake) and actually advance the field? This sort of behavior is what, at the moment, dooms psychology to a "lower-tier" science.

And what do you think other fields do?! You can be idealistic about it as much as you want but it's the volume of publications that will get you the tenure and the grants - therefore most researchers do publish for its own sake...

 

[Psyclops]

I respectfully disagree. At what point do we progress from merely doing as those before us did (publish for publishing's sake) and actually advance the field? This sort of behavior is what, at the moment, dooms psychology to a "lower-tier" science.

I agree with you on principle, we should strive for something a little more lofty. BUT, an emerging scientist like the OP shouldn't feel ashamed of doing a little publishing just to prove they've got what it takes to make it in this business. The fact that it gets published is beside the point in my opinion. Look at in this way, the OP wants or needs to do something to prove they can hack it. They can perform and write up some research. If they do it in the form of a thesis such as in a MS program and that gets null results fine, they were unlucky but they showed they were capable of it, even if they got null results. If, on the other hand, the OPs peers see the excercise fit to add to the body of peer reviewed knowledge all the better. The OP wants to prove themself, it doesn't have to be in the form of a publication, but if it is all the better. Does that make sense or have I gone off the deep end again?

 

[alienarms]

I think everyone has made some valid points. On the one hand, I do care deeply about the work that we're doing and believe that it will contribute when it's published, but at the same time, the bare truth is that I need that "extra line" on my CV when I submit grad school apps.

Psyclops and JP: Thanks for your helpful suggestions-I have thought about doing some writing on my own. However, as you mentioned, there are politics to take into consideration, and although my group works very closely together and our PI is very reasonable, it's true that I have to tread rather carefully. Thankfully, our group DOES put RAs on publications; it's very fair that way. (It's a good thing too-we do a lot of the work.)

Also, with respect to publishing for publishing's sake, in a perfect world we would only publish new, exciting data, but in reality, we have to try to add our "grain of sand to the pile", as one of my profs used to say, and that's hard to do without an advanced degree, which is hard to get without a publication.