How low did you go on your ROL?

[Colba55o]

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To all those who matched into their 1st or 2nd choice I congratulate you. It seems like this is the case for most of the posters on the "official" thread

Am I the only one who matched lower than expected? I got my #6 (out of 14) and LOWER than my home program. Yea I suck 🙁
Truth be told, this program was probably my 2nd favorite overall. I just got pulled in to the name and prestige hype and basically ranked all the hot shot places 1-5.

I almost fell out when I opened the envelope and tried to feign happiness like everyone else, but I was pissed off. I'm slowly beginning to accept and appreciate that I'll be going someplace that I will be happy.

I tried to analyze what went wrong. For starters I got IV burnout and engaged in very little post interview correspondence. Fell way behind on thank you notes, didnt ask my director to call any programs to vouch for me etc. This was probably due to my lack of true enthusiasm about the places I ranked 1-5. I have always been a pretty decent interviewee and dont have any major personality disorders so I don't think the interviews themselves did me in. I also did no away rotations.

This may be notice to future classes the value of post interview correspondence. Learn from my mistakes

 

[guitarguy09]

I'm slowly beginning to accept and appreciate that I'll be going someplace that I will be happy.

I think this is the most important thing in the long run. I have a feeling that wherever you ended up you will make the most of it and be happy. If you weren't too thrilled about your top ranks, they probably shouldn't have been ranked at the top of your list... I think it's best to go with your gut feeling of where you think you'll be happiest and get appropriate training (sometimes these go together, and sometimes not).

In any case, great job matching into the field and just remember that in the end you're still going to be an anesthesiologist!

 

[lfesiam]

Hi OP, you don't suck my man!

I was really happy 😀 😀 😀 but can't help at being surprised.

I went down 3 spots to match at my #4. But I considered my number 2,3,4 all my #2 programs, spent countless hours rotating them to my number 2 slot. Asked multiple people for advice. Mayo-jax was my wife's #1, my #2 for a long time. Happy wife = Happy life, according to bigdan! Mayo-jax got one of the best REGIONAL program in the country! Plenty of Liver Transplants. Pain is also good! 60-80'F all year round, right by jacksonville beach. Low cost of living when compared to other places on the coasts. Beautiful brand new facility. Can rotate at Rochester during the warmer months avoiding the cold. Initially thought it was a long shot for me to match here. Hindsight 20/20. 😀 😀 😀

My #3 (Hopkins), the chief gave me a phone call prior to ranking due date stating that "it is statistically impossible for you not to match here if you rank us high". Was ecstatic to receive the call, I got out of my car and jumped for joy! Called my family, teachers, friends and wife about the phone call. But now, I probably misinterpreted the wording as a rank to match phone call. Navigate the post interview contacts carefully, future applicants. Take these phone calls with a grain of salt! It is a game - applicants trying to get programs to rank them high vs. programs trying to get applicants to rank them high 🙄 You have to play smart. If you received a similar call from any programs, ask if you're ranked in the Top X spots, X being equal to the number of residents they take per year.

Not surprised at my #1 (OHSU)...sigh..... It is a very competitive program in a very desirable location in a competitive year. Did an away rotation there. I know it was a long shot for me. 🙄

So in the end, I look forward to my training.🙂 I will work hard at being the best damn anesthesiologist that I can be for my patients. Contributing to the field and most importantly to my new program who gave me the opportunity to train. I am grateful, humble and thankful for matching.🙂

Future applicants: the most important day is when you find out that you successfully match! Remember that matching your number 1 is the icing on the cake! But hey, in the end, a cake is a cake.

Will be flying to Thailand for my international rotation in anesthesiology this Thursday! Going to network to the max. Perhaps I can set up a future rotation for residents when i become an attending faculty later on. Will keep you guys posted!

For now, will leave you all with a classic song from the rolling stones:

"Sing it to me now...
You can't always get what you want,
But if you try sometimes well you just might find
You get what you need
Oh baby, yeah, yeah!"

 

[fakin' the funk]

Am I the only one who matched lower than expected? I got my #6 (out of 14) and LOWER than my home program. Yea I suck 🙁
Truth be told, this program was probably my 2nd favorite overall. I just got pulled in to the name and prestige hype and basically ranked all the hot shot places 1-5.

I almost fell out when I opened the envelope and tried to feign happiness like everyone else, but I was pissed off. I'm slowly beginning to accept and appreciate that I'll be going someplace that I will be happy.

I tried to analyze what went wrong. For starters I got IV burnout and engaged in very little post interview correspondence. Fell way behind on thank you notes, didnt ask my director to call any programs to vouch for me etc. This was probably due to my lack of true enthusiasm about the places I ranked 1-5. I have always been a pretty decent interviewee and dont have any major personality disorders so I don't think the interviews themselves did me in. I also did no away rotations.

OP: I applaud your willingness to put "reach" places in top slots. Not everyone does or can do this. What it means is, you put your ROL in order of your "true" preference (regardless of how true that preference is now or in retrospect) -- not in the order of the program(s) where you'd knew you'd get in. What the ROL slot # was next to the program you'll be at is irrelevant, just the fact that you'll be happy there.

Post-interview correspondence seems generally not that valuable, and, if it works at all, seems like it helps distort ROLs away from "true preference" and more in order of "What programs are going to rank me highly?" and "What applicants are going to rank us highly?"

 

[guitarguy09]

Post-interview correspondence seems generally not that valuable, and, if it works at all, seems like it helps distort ROLs away from "true preference" and more in order of "What programs are going to rank me highly?" and "What applicants are going to rank us highly?"

I agree for the most part. I found that there we definitely programs on the east coast (I applied midwest and northeast) that often had "probing" questions, to determine if I was serious about moving out there. I think that sometimes post-interview correspondence could be another way for you to remind them of your interest (although you really shouldn't have to do this because you applied there... obviously you're interested). Whether right or wrong, that's the way I found it worked out. But in general, I don't think that post-interview correspondence by either the program or applicant should change their respective rank lists much. That being said, I'm sure it happens at various institutions and I'm sure some unfortunate students fall for it.

 

[proman]

My #3 (Hopkins), the chief gave me a rank to match phone call prior to ranking due date stating that "it is statistically impossible for me not to match there if you rank us high". Navigate the post interview contacts carefully, future applicants. Take these phone calls with a GRAIN OF SALT! It is a game - applicants trying to get programs to rank them high vs. programs trying to get applicants to rank them high 🙄

I wasn't the one who called since I'm not a chief, but I know how it was decided to call and I can tell you whoever spoke to you was being honest. We did not go very low on the rank list. The reason you didn't match at Hopkins, despite being apparently ranked high, is that other applicants ranked Hopkins higher. That's how the match works. By the time the computer got to you needing a third choice, the program was most likely already filled. I am sure that had you ranked Hopkins first, you would have matched there. Remember that the match algorithm actually favors the applicant, not the program.

The purpose of calling applicants to was to express honest interest (ie only some on the rank list got a call). Please don't portray a program as being deceitful when everything was done above board.

 

[okayplayer]

The reason you didn't match at Hopkins, despite being apparently ranked high, is that other applicants ranked Hopkins higher. That's how the match works. By the time the computer got to you needing a third choice, the program was most likely already filled. I am sure that had you ranked Hopkins first, you would have matched there. Remember that the match algorithm actually favors the applicant, not the program.

Is this really how it works? I haven't gone through this process yet (next year), but my understanding is since he had ranked it:

1. Program X
2. Program Y
3. Hopkins
4. Mayo-Jacksonville

Just trying to understand this process. He didn't match into X or Y, so he should have matched into Hopkins regardless of whether he put them first or third, assuming they ranked him high enough to match. Right? My point being, whether he put them first or third should have no bearing on whether he matches there or not in this scenario, correct?

 

[lfesiam]

I wasn't the one who called since I'm not a chief, but I know how it was decided to call and I can tell you whoever spoke to you was being honest. We did not go very low on the rank list. The reason you didn't match at Hopkins, despite being apparently ranked high, is that other applicants ranked Hopkins higher. That's how the match works. By the time the computer got to you needing a third choice, the program was most likely already filled. I am sure that had you ranked Hopkins first, you would have matched there. Remember that the match algorithm actually favors the applicant, not the program.

The purpose of calling applicants to was to express honest interest (ie only some on the rank list got a call). Please don't portray a program as being deceitful when everything was done above board.

😉 No hard feelings here proman. And I did not mean to portray any deceitfulness, I apologize. Just stating what happened for future applicants who may find themselves in my shoe.

 

[okayplayer]

http://www.nrmp.org/res_match/about_res/algorithms.html

"Applicants should rank programs in actual order of preference. Their choices should not be influenced by speculation about whether a program will rank them high, low, or not at all. The position of a program on an applicant's rank order list will not affect that applicant's position on the program's rank order list, and therefore will not affect the program's preference for matching with that applicant as compared with any other applicants to the program. During the matching process, an applicant is placed in his/her most preferred program that ranks the applicant and does not fill all its positions with more preferred applicants."

Okay...so I think my assumption above was right.

 

[sethco]

I wasn't the one who called since I'm not a chief, but I know how it was decided to call and I can tell you whoever spoke to you was being honest. We did not go very low on the rank list. The reason you didn't match at Hopkins, despite being apparently ranked high, is that other applicants ranked Hopkins higher. That's how the match works. By the time the computer got to you needing a third choice, the program was most likely already filled. I am sure that had you ranked Hopkins first, you would have matched there. Remember that the match algorithm actually favors the applicant, not the program.

The purpose of calling applicants to was to express honest interest (ie only some on the rank list got a call). Please don't portray a program as being deceitful when everything was done above board.

Sorry, dude, but I have to wave the BS Flag. That is not how the match algorithm works. Here is a link...

http://www.nrmp.org/res_match/about_res/algorithms.html

An applicant can be tentatively matched to a program in this process if the program also ranks the applicant on its rank order list, and either:

1) the program has an unfilled position. In this case, there is room in the program to make a tentative match between the applicant and program.

2) the program does not have an unfilled position, but the applicant is more attractive to the program than another applicant who is already tentatively matched to the program. In this case, the applicant who is the least preferred current match in the program is removed from the program, to make room for a tentative match with the more preferred applicant.

Matches are "tentative" because an applicant who is matched to a program at one point in the matching process may be removed from the program at some later point, to make room for an applicant more preferred by the program, as described in the second case above. When an applicant is removed from a previously made tentative match, an attempt is made to re-match that applicant, starting from the top of his/her list. This process is carried out for all applicants, until each applicant has either been tentatively matched to the most preferred choice possible, or all choices submitted by the applicant have been exhausted. When all applicants have been considered, the match is complete and all tentative matches become final.



Summing it up, the program submit their ROL and will fill theirs first given that the applicants didn't rank another program higher. This was not the case, as he had JHU as #3 and his "tentative match" as #4

 

[proman]

I don't know the answer to that. I can't figure out with certainty how the other applicants ranks factor in. The NRMP information indicates that applicant A can bump applicant B out of a tentative match if the program ranks applicant A higher than B. I think this assumes that applicant A is ranked within the number spots available (ie 10 spots, ranked 1-10). So, you may be right, I'm not sure. Lfesiam, if you want to PM me your name and who you spoke to I can try to find out (not your actual rank but if you were in the top x spots).

 

[Bertelman]

It matters not where lfsiam ranked Hopkins. If Hopkins filled before he was matched, that means the people matching at Hopkins were ranked above him on Hopkins' list. Period.

Deceit or not, the caller telling him it was statistically impossible for him to NOT match was clearly wrong.

I'm not trying to slander Hopkins or any chief, just shedding some light on the match process.

 

[Gern Blansten]

Unless they have drastically changed the way they do things at the NRMP, the poster would not have gotten Hopkins whether he ranked them first or thrity first. I believe okayplayer has it correct.
I would not pursue this any further by trying to figure out where he was ranked. It really doesn't matter. He got what he got and is content with the great program he has matched with. Nothing positive will come of finding out where you were ranked by a program that you did not match at. It is also probably best that you not know where you were ranked at the program that you matched with as well unless the program went straight down the list and filled ALL of their top spots (ie 10 for 10 or 15 for 15 etc). Ignorance is bliss and everyone can assume they were in the very top spot🙂

 

[SaintFrances]

I received a "ranked to match" phone call from the chair of a department. He was very careful to explain what EXACTLY that meant:

"We have 12 positions in our program. You have been ranked in our top 12. PERIOD."

Anything less than the above is NOT "ranked to match." Even if I had ranked 10 programs higher than a program where I was "ranked to match," and I failed to match at those 10 programs, I would still match at the program where I was "ranked to match." The OP was obviously not "ranked to match" and thus was somewhat misled by the resident who called him.

The post from proman regarding Hopkins does not correlate with what the NRMP tell us about the match algorithm. Believe me, I myself thought for a long time that the algorithm worked the way he (proman) described, but I actually called the NRMP and had a lengthy discussion with a member of their staff back in January. Furthermore, the NRMP links listed in the posts above do describe several scenarios to help demonstrate these concepts more clearly. If things worked the way proman describes - the match would favor the program and NOT the applicant.

 

[Gern Blansten]

It matters not where lfsiam ranked Hopkins. If Hopkins filled before he was matched, that means the people matching at Hopkins were ranked above him on Hopkins' list. Period.

Deceit or not, the caller telling him it was statistically impossible for him to NOT match was clearly wrong.

I'm not trying to slander Hopkins or any chief, just shedding some light on the match process.

A more honest comment would have been to say, based on historical data, you are ranked in a position where you would match here. It doesn't sound as sexy or reassuring for the candidate, but, I think, it is better than being lied to.
Given the fact that Hopkins did not fill last year, the above comment could be stated to everyone on the rank list.🙂 I know, they hold spots out of the match on purpose.

 

[DO4lifer]

its interesting how people (after having been through the match) still do not know how the match process works. There should be a short powerpoint or pamphlet mailed out with lots of pictures.

As an applicant, you rank where you wanna go.

The programs can only hope they get their highly ranked applicants. Just because they choose Bobby as number one, does not mean he will come to the program, unless Bobby does not match at his higher ranked programs.

Easy. 👍

The fact that Hopkins is misleading people, is a testament to the fact that its all just a game, and you don't trust nobody unless its in writing.

 

[RxBoy]

The fact that Hopkins is misleading people, is a testament to the fact that its all just a game, and you don't trust nobody unless its in writing.

With your lawyer present.

 

[fakin' the funk]

Unless they have drastically changed the way they do things at the NRMP, the poster would not have gotten Hopkins whether he ranked them first or thrity first. I believe okayplayer has it correct.

Right. The Match puts applicants in their most highly ranked OPEN program. Simple as that.

If it worked the way Proman put it, Match placement would favor the programs and would be determined by where programs put applicants. E.g. Hopkins would get their 1-12 as long as no one else ranked those applicants in the top 12...which is crazy.

 

[coprolalia]

The fact that Hopkins is misleading people, is a testament to the fact that its all just a game, and you don't trust nobody unless its in writing.

Or, their chief just doesn't understand how the Match works either.

It's all a game, friends. Get used to it.

To Colba55o: Congrats, man. It doesn't matter, ultimately, where you do your training provided (1) the program is accredited, and (2) you finish. Having said that, you matched into a program. Period. And, there are lots of people out there would love to be in your shoes. That's all you should care about.

-copro

 

[mstudent12345]

I did well for gas but went down to 7 on my prelim list, despite my #1 and 2 choices telling me that "they would love to work with me next year", the #1 in an email response after I told him I was ranking him 1 (my home program btw).

All I can say is everyone should take what is said with a grain of salt, you never know what the letter will have.

 

[akpete]

I got my #1, but it attracts people fairly regionally from what I've seen. Plus, I hear they didn't fill one spot, therefore, I could've been ranked last for all I know. After that, I could've easily fallen to my #8 rank. 2-7 were competitive NYC, CA, and Chicago programs, which will probably attract a more diverse app group from around the country than my #1 simply because it's in the midwest.

Even though I might be their last choice, I'm very happy. 😀

 

[lfesiam]

I don't know the answer to that. I can't figure out with certainty how the other applicants ranks factor in. The NRMP information indicates that applicant A can bump applicant B out of a tentative match if the program ranks applicant A higher than B. I think this assumes that applicant A is ranked within the number spots available (ie 10 spots, ranked 1-10). So, you may be right, I'm not sure. Lfesiam, if you want to PM me your name and who you spoke to I can try to find out (not your actual rank but if you were in the top x spots).

Proman - no need to look that up my friend. It is all in the past, why worry about it? 🙂 I sincerely appreciate your interest though. I hope I didn't cause a big stir with my original post here on SDN. But I do think it is good to shed some light into the gray areas of the match process for both the future applicants and programs.

OP - i totally jacked your post - indirectly. sorry bro.

Let us all move on with this nice piece of monet:

 

[buntybrown]

I matched into my #4 spot, which wasn't so bad considering I was part of a couple. On the other hand, we had our respective home programs at #3 and flew right past them to #4, so that's a bit of a bummer, even though we weren't too sincere about sticking around this area.

Hopefully you didn't match to a place where you won't be somewhat happy. If so, once residency starts, we'll all pretty much be in the same boat.

Cheers!

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Just to add more info, I was bottom 30% of the class, did no aways, and was below average on my steps, and I think I only sent thank you letters to three programs, none of which I matched into. Odd, no?