How many non-APA internship sites to apply to?

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I know this has been hashed over several times on this site but non-apa sites could be really limiting for your career. Why not just apply to 4 more apa sites?

Edit: Best of luck with the match too!!!
 
After receiving some supervision about this topic, I decided to only apply to APA-accred sites. I talked to someone in a position to hire psychologists for the job I want in the setting I want, and I was told they may invite non-APA-accred. interns to interview but they may be last on the list if they had a handful of applicants from APA-accred sites. While I'm sure it's not unheard of to do well after internship at a non-APA-accred. site, I didn't want to take the chance.
 
Thanks for your responses. I'm pissed because my program acts like Non APA sites are fine, but when i come to forums , or when i ask my supervisor at the hospital i extern at, it does seem like having a non APA sites really hurts one's career. It's so silly though!! How can an internship site follow a professional throughout his/her career. It blows my mind how if I could have a non APA internship and in 10 years apply to a hospital my chances would be slim because of an internship site (one year) was non APA. I don't get it...but i still will hope and try hard to get an APA site.
 
Childdoconeday said:
How can an internship site follow a professional throughout his/her career. It blows my mind how if I could have a non APA internship and in 10 years apply to a hospital my chances would be slim because of an internship site (one year) was non APA. I don't get it...but i still will hope and try hard to get an APA site.
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Because there was no attempt at quality control for your capstone clinical training experience. If I was looking at your application, i would view this negatively. Same reason why publications in peer reviewed journals are viewed more favorably than publication in open access or non peer reviewed journals. Peer review exists for a reason, right ?

Should this follow you for 10+ years? I don't know. Maybe. Maybe not. Unaccredited is unaccredited in every other business. Physicians who don't do residencies that are ACGME seem pretty screwed. How many of those are even offered might be the more important question? From a HR/personnel perspective, not allowing unaccredited internships is an easy is cut criterion to shorten your cert list for the clinical department heads. Kinda like GRE cuts for grad school admission. The predictive validity may be somewhat in question, but functionally, it def has benefits.
 
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I am not applying to any non-APA sites, and that is despite not matching last year. I (and I'd venture to say no one else on this site) is arguing that non-APA sites are automatically inferior training to APA sites, but there needs to be a standard by which our final training experience is measured and held to.

I know how scary competitive this process is and I have literally zero positive things to say about it, but I think you will be much happier with your choice in the long run if you go APA.

Best of luck!
 
Okay so would this work? Let's say I don't match , instead of waiting around working at a practicum unpaid for one year, what if I accepted a non APA site? Got hours, got PAID (poor grad student here...), and then applied for internship again and got an APA site.

Does that ever happen? Can someone go through a non APA site and then move on to an APA site the next year?
 
Mods: Could we change the name of this thread to something more appropriate? Thank you!
 
Childdoconeday said:
Okay so would this work? Let's say I don't match , instead of waiting around working at a practicum unpaid for one year, what if I accepted a non APA site? Got hours, got PAID (poor grad student here...), and then applied for internship again and got an APA site.

Does that ever happen? Can someone go through a non APA site and then move on to an APA site the next year?
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usually, you do a 1 year internship (APA/APPIC/non APPIC) and graduate thereafter. I don't think your idea works for schools. You cannot do two one year internship, but could do one year internship and continue on at a post-doc training site while getting licensed.
 
Childdoconeday said:
Okay so would this work? Let's say I don't match , instead of waiting around working at a practicum unpaid for one year, what if I accepted a non APA site? Got hours, got PAID (poor grad student here...), and then applied for internship again and got an APA site.

Does that ever happen? Can someone go through a non APA site and then move on to an APA site the next year?
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You can not do two internships. I recommend only applying to APA sites. If you happen to not match, instead of doing another practicum next year (assuming you had good F2F hours and this wasn't the problem in your application), you could get a job as a psych tech or something, something that fits your interests and would look good on your CV for when applying the next year. But don't worry about all of this now. Just apply to APA sites and good luck to you!
 
1. You cant do it. Its not allowed. (appic forbids it and you have to be enrolled in a graduate program, have DCT verification, etc)

2. You dont think that's just a ****ty ass, selfishness thing to do? There is a horrible imbalance of too many students to internships and yet you want to take TWO?! Basically robbing a spot from a person when you've already decided and accepted your fate? Think about what you're saying...
 
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Childdoconeday said:
Okay so would this work? Let's say I don't match , instead of waiting around working at a practicum unpaid for one year, what if I accepted a non APA site? Got hours, got PAID (poor grad student here...), and then applied for internship again and got an APA site.

Does that ever happen? Can someone go through a non APA site and then move on to an APA site the next year?
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...how about applying to APA sites for now and dealing with the rest later? This sounds almost like self-fulfilling prophesy. Some look for a job if they don't match and come back stronger the next year around. Not always the worst idea!!!
 
erg923 said:
1. You cant do it. Its not allowed. (appic forbids it and you have to be enrolled in a graduate program, have DCT verification, etc)

2. You dont think that's just a ****ty ass, selfishness thing to do? There is a horrible imbalance of too many students to internships and yet you want to take TWO?! Basically robbing a spot from a person when you've already decided and accepted your fate? Think about what you're saying...
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No i don't think it's a ****ty ass thing to do and I hope i don't even have to get a non APA site. I am up to my ears in loans, stressed out beyond belief, and think i would do some great work and enjoy a Non APA site if I don't match with APA. I need money and I would really get a lot out of the training. I also happen to know because of certain life experiences i NEED money. I cannot spend another year driving around to practicum sites , spending money on gas, working extremely hard for $0.00.

I wasn't trying to be a dick, but I am thinking ahead. I will worry about this IF it comes to it, but I think my question is valid. I just wanted to know what if I or other students took a non APA site and then in five years want to work at a hospital and need to get an APA internship? I am not taking away anything from anyone. I am just looking at options, hopefully it won't even come to that.

Anyways, good luck to you all! I have decided to definitely cut down my non APA applications to two vs. four.
 
Phipps said:
...how about applying to APA sites for now and dealing with the rest later? This sounds almost like self-fulfilling prophesy. Some look for a job if they don't match and come back stronger the next year around. Not always the worst idea!!!
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Good point. Thanks for your response!
 
I'm at the point of looking for post docs at UCCs and every position I'm applying to requires 1) APA doc program 2) APA internship

I can't imagine trying to find a good post doc at a UCC without both of those.
 
Childdoconeday said:
No i don't think it's a ****ty ass thing to do and I hope i don't even have to get a non APA site. I am up to my ears in loans, stressed out beyond belief, and think i would do some great work and enjoy a Non APA site if I don't match with APA. I need money and I would really get a lot out of the training. I also happen to know because of certain life experiences i NEED money. I cannot spend another year driving around to practicum sites , spending money on gas, working extremely hard for $0.00.

I wasn't trying to be a dick, but I am thinking ahead. I will worry about this IF it comes to it, but I think my question is valid. I just wanted to know what if I or other students took a non APA site and then in five years want to work at a hospital and need to get an APA internship? I am not taking away anything from anyone. I am just looking at options, hopefully it won't even come to that.

Anyways, good luck to you all! I have decided to definitely cut down my non APA applications to two vs. four.
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I think what I was saying is that if you make your bed with non-apa site, you should lay in it. That's really the only ethical thing to do if you think about it. Dont take up a spot in the match the next year and further ADD to the imbalance that put you in this delimma to start with. You had your turn and you made your choice. Now it's others peoples turn.

I am sorry you are "in debt up to your ears" but that was your choice. Don't make your problems my (other peoples) problems.
 
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FIrst off this situation hasn't even happened, and hopefully won't.

Second off I was wondering if it was possible to end up getting APA internship if one in the future realizes that it's necessary down the road. I was also wondering if I could start making money with a non APA internship (20,000 tinyyy stipend for a year of hard work) in the case that I don't match. I was just seeing if it was an option. You have made it clear that it is not.

Third of all, I think it's unethical that there are so many students and not enough internship spots. There are so many hurdles to get this degree. I think that just as in any career, it's important to look after oneself in order to succeed, and to think of different ways to go about doing so. The APA doesn't give a **** about a student like me, who has tons of debt, works extremely hard, and is ready to start a career but may not be able to.

I see where you're coming from, I do. I disagree with you, but I respect your opinion. I'm just defending myself because it seems like you're judging my character based on a question I have. I can assure you there are other students who like me, are wondering if they can ever get an APA accredited program if they take on a non APA site one year.
 
Blunt as erg may be, he's right. The internship "crisis" has been around for a while, driven by diploma mills. This is why we always stress doing your homework up front and researching things like tuition, funding, match rate, EPPP pass rate, etc. These things matter a lot, as you are now seeing. And, you do have options. You can take that non-accredited internship, but you close the door on many employment opportunities for good, and that limits both your flexibility and earning potential. That's your call. I, personally, would find a job somewhere and work another year before I took one of those positions.
 
Childdoconeday said:
FIrst off this situation hasn't even happened, and hopefully won't.

Second off I was wondering if it was possible to end up getting APA internship if one in the future realizes that it's necessary down the road. I was also wondering if I could start making money with a non APA internship (20,000 tinyyy stipend for a year of hard work) in the case that I don't match. I was just seeing if it was an option. You have made it clear that it is not.

Third of all, I think it's unethical that there are so many students and not enough internship spots. There are so many hurdles to get this degree. I think that just as in any career, it's important to look after oneself in order to succeed, and to think of different ways to go about doing so. The APA doesn't give a **** about a student like me, who has tons of debt, works extremely hard, and is ready to start a career but may not be able to.

I see where you're coming from, I do. I disagree with you, but I respect your opinion. I'm just defending myself because it seems like you're judging my character based on a question I have. I can assure you there are other students who like me, are wondering if they can ever get an APA accredited program if they take on a non APA site one year.
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I agree that the situation is terrible, and there is ample data out there that identifies who the primary culprits are and who has been complict in letting it happen/escalate. Please see the following article: http://eptc.education.wisc.edu/docs/eptc-documents/parent-and-williamson-2010.pdf?sfvrsn=2

I dont think I'm judging character, but I do think I am judging that (potential) action/decision (ie.,behavior). If you think the situation is unethical, then I would have a hard time understanding your justification for adding to the imbalance. Its clearly "double dipping" in the system. Think if even 100 people who didnt match one year did this the next year. That increases the imbalance by another hundred students. To me, this is just morally unjustifiable

Childdoconeday said:
I think that just as in any career, it's important to look after oneself in order to succeed, and to think of different ways to go about doing so.
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Yes, but this isn't Wallstreet. We do not throw others under the bus (eg., ., take an internship spot from some student who has also worked hard and is in debt up to his/her ears) for the sake of our own success. I think we could all agree that such attitudes are incongruent with the aspirational standards in our professional ethics code.

You can still have a career, its just may not be the career you most want. Hence why we are heavily encouraging you NOT to rank non-APA sites and risk having that decision made for you.
 
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Childdoconeday said:
Third of all, I think it's unethical that there are so many students and not enough internship spots.
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Not liking something is not the same thing as it being unethical.

Beyond that, you can't force sites that don't exist to suddenly exist nor can you force a site to apply for accreditation if they don't want to.

Childdoconeday said:
The APA doesn't give a **** about a student like me, who has tons of debt, works extremely hard, and is ready to start a career but may not be able to.
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First off, I don't necessarily disagree with how you feel, but why doesn't the APA care about you?

You chose you to get into debt, no one forced you (and i'm in the same boat). Plenty of people work really hard, its not just you.

What is stopping you from starting a career? As you said,

"I think that just as in any career, it's important to look after oneself in order to succeed, and to think of different ways to go about doing so."
 
WisNeuro said:
Blunt as erg may be, he's right. The internship "crisis" has been around for a while, driven by diploma mills. This is why we always stress doing your homework up front and researching things like tuition, funding, match rate, EPPP pass rate, etc. These things matter a lot, as you are now seeing. And, you do have options. You can take that non-accredited internship, but you close the door on many employment opportunities for good, and that limits both your flexibility and earning potential. That's your call. I, personally, would find a job somewhere and work another year before I took one of those positions.
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I've known folks who did this, and I agree that it would be my choice over ranking non-accredited internship programs. However, I had a goal of wanting to keep the VA and AMC's open as career options, and was also anticipating completing a neuro postdoc, so an accredited internship was essentially mandatory in my case (that, and my grad program likely would not have let me apply to non-accredited sites anyway).

The imbalance is certainly frustrating. The unethical part, I place almost squarely on the programs that are serial and disproportionate offenders, and to a somewhat lesser extent, on the APA for having A) allowed these programs to remain accredited, B) allowed these programs to continue driving the imbalance, and C) waited until only just the past couple years to address the imbalance as a pertinent issue to begin with.

Also, just my opinion, but I agree with the sentiments regarding personal responsibility and debt. I attended a funded program and nonetheless took on more loans than I'd originally planned, but I certainly don't feel that the APA is responsible for this, owes me anything as a result, or even really should factor it into their decision making to a large extent. Unlike the internship imbalance issue, when it comes to debt, any blame must fall solely on the shoulders of the individual taking out the loans.
 
Childdoconeday said:
I was also wondering if I could start making money with a non APA internship (20,000 tinyyy stipend for a year of hard work) in the case that I don't match.
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You can make twice as much working as a full-time psychometrist, just FYI.

If you didnt match, dont do another practicum (unless there is a glaring weakness/hole in your training) and just work.
 
erg923 said:
Because there was no attempt at quality control for your capstone clinical training experience. If I was looking at your application, i would view this negatively. Same reason why publications in peer reviewed journals are viewed more favorably than publication in open access or non peer reviewed journals.
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Not related to the topic but many open access journals are peer reviewed and considered respectable (e.g., PLoS One). It does appear that departments are struggling with how to incorporate the evolving publication landscape. For example, journals are now allowing for an open access option within their traditional advertisement supported publishing making it impossible to distinguish.
 
In an attempt to provide some more balanced feedback I think you need to provide more information on what you want to do after internship. If you want to get a postdoc/job at a VA, AMC, or academic setting then lacking an accredited internship is going to be a very big handicap, especially in large metropolitan areas. Its not impossible but very difficult. From the listservs I am on it appears that many larger private practices also prefer fully accredited education. If you are looking to do something else, particularly in rural areas, then it may not be such a big deal.

Personally, I never really know what my future holds so I try to be most conservative. The same career choices come up with post doc, specialization, boarding, and licensure hours.

Its a balance of short term vs long term. You may be more likely to get an internship now to meet the qualifications for your education and licensure. However, if your end result is a certain type of job you need to carefully consider how this decision will influence that end point.
 
Childdoconeday said:
FIrst off this situation hasn't even happened, and hopefully won't.


I see where you're coming from, I do. I disagree with you, but I respect your opinion. I'm just defending myself because it seems like you're judging my character based on a question I have. I can assure you there are other students who like me, are wondering if they can ever get an APA accredited program if they take on a non APA site one year.
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Seriously?? I have never heard any students in my program thinking about applying to or taking a NON APA site and wanting to apply again the year after, doing it two years in a row, because they know it is not an option. Didn't your program tell you that you graduate after a year of internship??
 
skinnerboy said:
Seriously?? I have never heard any students in my program thinking about applying to or taking a NON APA site and wanting to apply again the year after, doing it two years in a row, because they know it is not an option. Didn't your program tell you that you graduate after a year of internship??
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The posters graduate program does not appear to have a very good understanding of these isues, thus they probably arent stressed/emphasized to the students.
 
DynamicDidactic said:
In an attempt to provide some more balanced feedback I think you need to provide more information on what you want to do after internship. If you want to get a postdoc/job at a VA, AMC, or academic setting then lacking an accredited internship is going to be a very big handicap, especially in large metropolitan areas. Its not impossible but very difficult. From the listservs I am on it appears that many larger private practices also prefer fully accredited education. If you are looking to do something else, particularly in rural areas, then it may not be such a big deal.

Personally, I never really know what my future holds so I try to be most conservative. The same career choices come up with post doc, specialization, boarding, and licensure hours.

Its a balance of short term vs long term. You may be more likely to get an internship now to meet the qualifications for your education and licensure. However, if your end result is a certain type of job you need to carefully consider how this decision will influence that end point.
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Seconded. Is a non-accredited a universal career death knell? No. It's still not something I'd recommend, but in the end, the weighing of pros/cons is going to be up to the trainee, and personal career goals are going to play a primary role in that decision-making process.
 
erg923 said:
The posters graduate program does not appear to have a very good understanding of these isues, thus they probably arent stressed/emphasized to the students.
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And to be fair, it could be program-specific. I honestly don't know if the APA accreditation guidelines for grad programs explicitly prohibit completion of >1 predoctoral internship; however, as has been said, it is explicitly prohibited by APPIC for participation in their internship match. No clue about CAPIC.
 
AcronymAllergy said:
And to be fair, it could be program-specific. I honestly don't know if the APA accreditation guidelines for grad programs explicitly prohibit completion of >1 predoctoral internship; however, as has been said, it is explicitly prohibited by APPIC for participation in their internship match. No clue about CAPIC.
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Source: http://www.appic.org/Match/FAQs/Applicants/Eligibility-and-Participation#q5

4. Is it possible for me to complete two internships? For example, if I accept a non-accredited internship this year, can I apply for a second, accredited internship the following year?
APPIC occasionally receives inquiries from students who did not successfully match to an internship program, asking if it would be acceptable to complete a non-accredited internship with the plan to re-enter the Match in the following year in order to secure an accredited internship at that time. The theory is that the student would gain additional experience during the first internship, with the hope of being more competitive when he/she re-applies for a second internship.

While the APPIC Board understands the thinking behind such a strategy, the Board strongly discourages students from pursuing two internships. Due to the imbalance between applicants and positions, it would simply make things worse for all applicants if students started doing two internships. In this regard, internship Training Directors are very unlikely to consider a student who has already completed (or is in the process of completing) an internship. Thus, a student who accepts an internship with the idea of later seeking a second internship actually has very little chance of succeeding in this goal.

Furthermore, it is very important that applicants NOT view internship as an opportunity to strengthen their experience in hopes of obtaining a "better" internship the following year. Instead, students who wish to gain additional experience in order to be more competitive for an internship should do so by arranging additional practicum experiences through their doctoral programs.

Thus, students should make their internship selection decisions with the understanding that they will complete one, and only one, internship.
 
I'm in the process of post doc apps and every single one I've seen asks about internship accreditation. Food for thought.

Also, I agree that the internship imbalance is unethical and horrible. However, I would argue that taking an unaccredited internship actually contributes to it. Programs are able to shunt people into these internships without any concern about how it may affect the student individually, therefore inflating their reported match rates even if their APA only rate is abysmal. This allows these programs to continue recruiting large cohorts (IMO, the real cause of the imbalance) and APA to accredit these programs while still sleeping at night.

Let me add that I hate that it's a student's responsibility to deal with pretty the entire rammifications of the crisis. Unfortunately, that is the world that we live in right now.
 
I hate to pile on the poor OP, but this...

"Third of all, I think it's unethical that there are so many students and not enough internship spots. There are so many hurdles to get this degree. I think that just as in any career, it's important to look after oneself in order to succeed, and to think of different ways to go about doing so. The APA doesn't give a **** about a student like me, who has tons of debt, works extremely hard, and is ready to start a career but may not be able to."

...is exactly why most posters here strongly caution potential students against PsyD programs with poor APA-accredited match rates (and poor EPPP pass rates to match). Sorry, OP, you are part of the problem. Or rather, your program is, and now you HAVE a problem. What did you think "tons of debt" would feel like? Don't make it worse for yourself.
 
Sendtrees said:
I hate to pile on the poor OP, but this...

"Third of all, I think it's unethical that there are so many students and not enough internship spots. There are so many hurdles to get this degree. I think that just as in any career, it's important to look after oneself in order to succeed, and to think of different ways to go about doing so. The APA doesn't give a **** about a student like me, who has tons of debt, works extremely hard, and is ready to start a career but may not be able to."

...is exactly why most posters here strongly caution potential students against PsyD programs with poor APA-accredited match rates (and poor EPPP pass rates to match). Sorry, OP, you are part of the problem. Or rather, your program is, and now you HAVE a problem. What did you think "tons of debt" would feel like? Don't make it worse for yourself.
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Second This! Also: I find it a little bit of an irrational thought and a blaming game to state that APA does not give a "****" about the OP. How does the OP know that an institution does not care and why would the OP want to become part for such a body? A lot of questions and yes, OP should have know prior to joining such a program...but still, I hope OP will apply to APA sites only!!!! Don't make things worse.
 
I want to add a slight bit of nuance to this. OP didn't mention what non-APA sites they were considering, but if it's a new VA internship that hasn't gotten its accreditation yet, that might be a decent back-up option depending on OP's career goals. VA jobs and postdocs require completion of an APA internship, but make a specific exception for their own non-APA ones, with the understanding that these internships are new and do get accreditation eventually. You may still run into difficulties in other settings, though, so keep in mind that this is specific only to the VA.
 
Good point about VAs in the process. It is tricky, as in recent yrs there has been a push to get more sites acred. I believe only VAs provide the loophole to still work in the VA system, as completing a VA internship w/o it gaining acred. within the intern yr will still mean coming from a non-APA acred site.
 
cara susanna said:
I'm in the process of post doc apps and every single one I've seen asks about internship accreditation. Food for thought.

Also, I agree that the internship imbalance is unethical and horrible. However, I would argue that taking an unaccredited internship actually contributes to it. Programs are able to shunt people into these internships without any concern about how it may affect the student individually, therefore inflating their reported match rates even if their APA only rate is abysmal. This allows these programs to continue recruiting large cohorts (IMO, the real cause of the imbalance) and APA to accredit these programs while still sleeping at night.

Let me add that I hate that it's a student's responsibility to deal with pretty the entire rammifications of the crisis. Unfortunately, that is the world that we live in right now.
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Agree. And I think that some (this is entirely anecdotal) unaccredited internship sites add to the problem because they take advantage of the imbalance. I have heard of sites choosing not to get accredited because of some reason (e.g., don't want to bother with it, are too specialized, have some other problem with their site preventing accreditation), and say, "but we will still get applicants, so it's no big deal." This is extremely troublesome. But all sites are supposed to be accredited by 2018 in order to participate in the match, right?
 
And just to announce, we have applied through central office for funding for a internship program. I am the interim director of training (which right now means I write statements, coordinate and push paper) and will likely stay TD our first year in the match. We have a scientist-practitioner training model/philosophy and will, optimally, seek that match in applicants. We are connected with the local state university medical school.

VAs have the luxury (and oh so joyous privilege) of heavy oversight, review, and scrutinity before we even get funded for our proposed internship. It still seems backwards to me that you have to graduate a class before you can get APA accredited, but such is life. First year VA internships are probably the one green light I would advocate to students who are thinking about applying to non accredited sites. The quality control is heavy on the front end, and the limitations put on your career are markedly less (if at all) than attending any other non accredited site.
 
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AcronymAllergy said:
Seconded. Is a non-accredited a universal career death knell? No. It's still not something I'd recommend, but in the end, the weighing of pros/cons is going to be up to the trainee, and personal career goals are going to play a primary role in that decision-making process.
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skinnerboy said:
Seriously?? I have never heard any students in my program thinking about applying to or taking a NON APA site and wanting to apply again the year after, doing it two years in a row, because they know it is not an option. Didn't your program tell you that you graduate after a year of internship??
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Unfortunately in my program it's a common thing. I believe one third of my class last year took non accredited internships. My program encourages taking a non accredited internship over nothing. Who knows why? Maybe it looks better for them, but i am happy i found this site and asked my supervisors because i feel like i'm getting an idea of what a disadvantage it would be to have a non apa internship
 
Childdoconeday said:
Unfortunately in my program it's a common thing. I believe one third of my class last year took non accredited internships. My program encourages taking a non accredited internship over nothing. Who knows why? Maybe it looks better for them, but i am happy i found this site and asked my supervisors because i feel like i'm getting an idea of what a disadvantage it would be to have a non apa internship
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If I had to hazard a guess, unfortunately, the bolded portion would be it (and doubly-unfortunate that it occurs at the expense of their students, who--like you--may not fully appreciate the ramifications of a non-accredited internship on their personal career goals).

I will say that your program certainly isn't the only one that seems to push that folks apply to unaccredited sites rather than not match. And I've also heard of programs requiring or strongly suggesting that their students apply to XX number of sites (usually somewhere in the upper teens or twenties), which to me seems to be overstepping some bounds.

Heck, we had advisors in my program who used to get irritated if their students applied to more than maybe 10 places. This was more back in the pre-electronic days, though, and also when the imbalance wasn't quite as prevalent.
 
Childdoconeday said:
Unfortunately in my program it's a common thing. I believe one third of my class last year took non accredited internships. My program encourages taking a non accredited internship over nothing. Who knows why? Maybe it looks better for them, but i am happy i found this site and asked my supervisors because i feel like i'm getting an idea of what a disadvantage it would be to have a non apa internship
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Why in the world would they take unaccredited internships or even apply to them? IMHO though, I think you cannot blame a program since it is up to each individual to make an informed decision, it this point in your career...
 
skinnerboy said:
Why in the world would they take unaccredited internships or even apply to them? IMHO though, I think you cannot blame a program since it is up to each individual to make an informed decision, it this point in your career...
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Great example to rebut the naive statements I often hear regarding how the financial aspect of all this (which we harp about a lot on here) is a "personal choice that doesn't effect anyone else, so what do you care?!" Well, here you go.

Poster said it themselves. Excessive debt is source of marked stress pushing him/her towards unaccredited training with no quality control/oversight (so they can just graduate). This allows the model to continue. This model affects perception and quality of entire profession.
 
childdoconeday - are you in an unaccredited program right now?
 
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