How many of you actually believe in the "difference" or the "philosophy"?

[DropkickMurphy]

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As a parallel to the "Why did you apply to a D.O. school?" thread.....how many of you actually think there is a tangible and real difference between the two camps? OMM is a physical example, but since most DOs never use it after they are done with school, is that really a major difference or is it just akin to another class that one school might require and the students grudgingly do what they have to do to graduate?

 

[DocBR]

Sometime back someone posted a research article about a top tier allo school who offers OMM. The students were surveyed and the ones that took the OMM class felt better prepared and preformed better in other fields.

Perhaps the physical aspect of OMM whether you enjoy it or not, contributes to a broader understanding of the body?

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Sometime back someone posted a research article about a top tier allo school who offers OMM. The students were surveyed and the ones that took the OMM class felt better prepared and preformed better in other fields.

Perhaps the physical aspect of OMM whether you enjoy it or not, contributes to a broader understanding of the body?

That or it just lends itself to being better at physical diagnosis. OMM is useful, but I don't see that being be sufficient grounds to have an entirely separate subculture. Just as historical reasons are not sufficient either....

 

[DocBR]

That or it just lends itself to being better at physical diagnosis. OMM is useful, but I don't see that being be sufficient grounds to have an entirely separate subculture. Just as historical reasons are not sufficient either....

True, but what is the harm of the separate subculture? I know it gets a few pre-med panties in a twist and it can be irritating explaining what a DO is to people - but these are all things that DOs and future DOs accept before beginning their education.

I don't know enough about the politics in medicine, but from my limited field of experience; I dont see many DOs hurting because of their subculture. It seems to me the last remnants of 'good ol' boy' MDs are retiring and I think it is safe to assume whatever hardships DOs have had or do have, are becoming less and less of an issue.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

I dont see many DOs hurting because of their subculture. It seems to me the last remnants of 'good ol' boy' MDs are retiring and I think it is safe to assume whatever hardships DOs have had or do have, are becoming less and less of an issue.

True.....and I see no harm in it, especially if they the "good ol' boy" DOs who insist on cranial and other such BS being in the curriculum and demand that the "DOs treat the whole patient" crap be preached like only they do it follow their elitist MD counterparts into an early grave. Then it falls to us (chances are good I will wind up attending an osteopathic program) who form the majority of the next generation of mainstream DOs to do everything possible to subvert and deny the spotlight and the leadership positions to our classmates and colleagues who were unfortunate enough to be brainwashed into an incorrect way of thinking. Our preceding generation failed to do this. Look at the debates in the osteopathic forum here and you'll see the gripes and issues that ensue from letting such *****s run the AOA and other organizations.

In regards to history, there is nothing wrong with being proud or at least cognizant of one's history, so long as it does not hold you back.

 

[DocBR]

I see no harm in it, especially if they the "good ol' boy" DOs who insist on cranial and other such BS being in the curriculum and demand that the "DOs treat the whole patient" crap be preached like only they do it follow their elitist MD counterparts into an early grave.

When that happens, the first round of beer is on me!

 

[DropkickMurphy]

When that happens, the first round of beer is on me!

You do realize I have expensive taste in beer right?

 

[DoctorMom78]

I wish you all could see some of the lectures that we have already had. WOW! After about a week in DO school, I have to say that I am so impressed with osteopathic medicine and know that I would have never felt the same way about allopathic medicine. I think that the problem is that many DOs do not practice true osteopathic medicine and so most people don't understand what it really has to offer.

We haven't had much exposure to OMM yet, but we were presented with some very impressive statistics and studies that support how well it works in many situations, (and these were not just for physical pain). So, until proven otherwise, I choose to believe 100% in OMM and the osteopathic philosphy.

You can debate this with me later DKM.😛😉

 

[AKN]

Many years ago, I had major back pain of unknown source.
The first MD gave me muscle relaxers and a brace.
A couple months later, the next MD gave me muscle relaxers, pain killers, and said he might be able to help me with surgery (even though he didn't know the cause of the pain) 😱
A few weeks later, on the advice of a stranger, I went to a DO that was 2 hours away. I now realize he must practice OMM. I was ready to write him into my will
So, yes, I know the difference exists. It's just whether or not the DOs choose to utilize the difference.
​

 

[DropkickMurphy]

You can debate this with me later DKM.

Count on it.

 

[mshheaddoc]

OMT is the difference so how can that be debated? 😕 While not all use it, it still is an indepth tool of the working human anatomy that if you go MD (unless your school offers advance study in anatomy which some do but even so its not OMT) you do not have, is it not?

Perfect example, woman came into a clinic with foot/ankle pain. A student was volunteering with a local MD school in the clinic as the only DO there. The MD students saw the patient and reported to the physician. No treatment, just sore muscles, give pain meds. The DO student chimed in that it might be a bone out of place. Goes in, fixes it, patient goes home without pain meds and problem hopefully resolved. A third year medical student shared this with me last year when we were discussing uses of OMT in real world applications.

So do I believe there is a philosophical difference? Yes I do because for those who study OMT, it can help doctors keep an open mind of the integrative efforts of the body. Would a good MD have come to that conclusion? Maybe so, or maybe would have referred to a podiatrist who could have fixed the issue. But the point is, the MD might not have been able to treat on the spot, the DO student could and did. The hands on approach to our anatomy absolutely amazes me. And while I probably would end up being someone who doesn't use OMT in practice everyday, its still an important tool 👍

 

[DropkickMurphy]

OMT is the difference so how can that be debated? 😕 While not all use it, it still is an indepth tool of the working human anatomy that if you go MD (unless your school offers advance study in anatomy which some do but even so its not OMT) you do not have, is it not?

Perfect example, woman came into a clinic with foot/ankle pain. A student was volunteering with a local MD school in the clinic as the only DO there. The MD students saw the patient and reported to the physician. No treatment, just sore muscles, give pain meds. The DO student chimed in that it might be a bone out of place. Goes in, fixes it, patient goes home without pain meds and problem hopefully resolved. A third year medical student shared this with me last year when we were discussing uses of OMT in real world applications.

So do I believe there is a philosophical difference? Yes I do because for those who study OMT, it can help doctors keep an open mind of the integrative efforts of the body. Would a good MD have come to that conclusion? Maybe so, or maybe would have referred to a podiatrist who could have fixed the issue. But the point is, the MD might not have been able to treat on the spot, the DO student could and did. The hands on approach to our anatomy absolutely amazes me. And while I probably would end up being someone who doesn't use OMT in practice everyday, its still an important tool 👍

I'm not denying that OMM has it's uses (I've had it done to me to treat back injuries and the like as a result of firefighting). What I take issue with is the philosophy and difference drivel that is spread around by the various groups in the osteopathic community.

I was just making a point that ~95% of DO graduates wind up practicing exactly like their MD counterparts- no OMM, nothing else to differentiate them other than the letters after their name. That doesn't amount to much of a difference when it comes to actual practice. Granted, they have the training, but if they do nothing with it does it really matter? It's like me- I'm trained as a HAZMAT technician, but I choose not to function as one. Therefore that training doesn't make a difference. See my point?

This is one reason why I think they should go to issuing MDs instead and offer a master's or diploma or something else for those who really want to learn OMM and apply it. I honestly don't see why the idea of assimilation into the allopathic side of things is such a bad idea and so violently reacted to.

 

[Shinken]

I was just making a point that ~95% of DO graduates wind up practicing exactly like their MD counterparts- no OMM, nothing else to differentiate them other than the letters after their name. That doesn't amount to much of a difference when it comes to actual practice. Granted, they have the training, but if they do nothing with it does it really matter? It's like me- I'm trained as a HAZMAT technician, but I choose not to function as one. Therefore that training doesn't make a difference. See my point?

Sorry, like DocBR said, it gets a few pre-med panties in a twist but people have to deal with it. Regardless of whether OMM is used or not in practice, we're taught differently and with a different "philosophy." It's irrelevant what some of us choose to do later after graduation, we all graduate as osteopathic physicians.

Just because all cars have four wheels and are used to drive around, doesn't mean that all car companies should just become one and manufacture just one model of car.

Let's turn the idea around. Since MDs and DOs both essentially practice the same way, why not transform all allopathic schools into osteopathic schools? After all, transforming all DO schools into MD schools means that something is lost - OMM training. By transforming all MD schools into DO ones, schools keep their curriculum and actually gain OMM.

This subject has been debated to death, and like I always say, debating on SDN is fun entertainment but in real life it accomplishes nothing. Some guy hiding behind a screen name on SDN isn't going to affect the 130 year old profession of osteopathic medicine, nor is that guy going to convince me of anything. It's unfortunate, but in the end this poll will accomplish nothing but will become an entertaining MD vs DO thread to add to the collection.

 

[medhacker]

I honestly don't see why the idea of assimilation into the allopathic side of things is such a bad idea and so violently reacted to.

It's quite simple

Why in the world would osteopathic medicine relinquish the autonomy, and power they have achieved?

Who in its right mind would renounce its political gains and give it to a group [AMA] already filled with its own interest groups, unconnected to the interests of the group in question?


Heck, if I was to create a third brach of medicine, say I call it hypothetical medicine and assign the HM degree (I know it sounds corny, but bear with me) and obtain the same autonomy, political independence, etc, as the mainstream medical groups, why in the world would I give that up? just to satisfy a bunch of premeds who wish I ceded my power to the mainstream medical group? heck no!!

I don't understand why that's so hard to understand... 🙂

 

[mshheaddoc]

So is this really about the MD/DO initials then DKM? Because I thought you were talking about philosophy/differences in osteopathic medicine. Because if its about the initials there's nothing to new to report on this 😛

 

[DropkickMurphy]

It's quite simple

Why in the world would osteopathic medicine relinquish the autonomy, and power they have achieved?

Who in its right mind would renounce its political gains and give it to a group [AMA] already filled with its own interest groups, unconnected to the interests of the group in question?


Heck, if I was to create a third brach of medicine, say I call it hypothetical medicine and assign the HM degree (I know it sounds corny, but bear with me) and obtain the same autonomy, political independence, etc, as the mainstream medical groups, why in the world would I give that up? just to satisfy a bunch of premeds who wish I ceded my power to the mainstream medical group? heck no!!

I don't understand why that's so hard to understand... 🙂

"The interest of the group at hand".....hmm, I didn't realize that the AMA didn't represent physicians. Also I don't see any "autonomy" other than separate licensing boards (in some states), separate residencies (let's not go there), a separate application service, and separate schools. What you call autonomy, I call duplication of effort.

I get your point though, it all boils down to ego on the part of the powers that be, as limited as their influence might be (outside the osteopathic community).

So is this really about the MD/DO initials then DKM? Because I thought you were talking about philosophy/differences in osteopathic medicine. Because if its about the initials there's nothing to new to report on this

Well, the poll was about what premeds think, but it always seems to come back down to initials since that seems to be the only tangible difference (damn near every DO I've ever worked with has said this) are the honoratives since most docs don't use OMM.

 

[Dr JPH]

Here is the osteopathic philosophy, as set forth by the AOA and in keeping with this history of osteopathic medicine. These are also known as the "Tenets of Osteopathy".

====
First, do no harm. A thoughtful diagnosis should be made before exposing the patient to any potentially harmful procedure.

Look beyond the disease for the cause. Treatment should center on the cause, with effect addressed only when it benefits the patient in some tangible way.

The practice of medicine should be based on sound medical principles. Only therapies proven clinically beneficial in improving patient outcome should be recommended.

The body is subject to mechanical laws. The science of physics applies to humans. Even a slight alteration in the body's precision can result in disorders that overcome natural defenses.

The body has the potential to make all substances necessary to insure its health. No medical approach can exceed the efficacy of the body's natural defense systems if those defenses are functioning properly. Therefore, teaching the patient to care for his own health and to prevent disease is part of a physician's responsibility.

The nervous system controls, influences, and/or integrates all bodily functions.

Osteopathy embraces all known areas of practice.
====

Lets take a close look at each piece.


First, do no harm. A thoughtful diagnosis should be made before exposing the patient to any potentially harmful procedure.

This is, or should be, the mantra of all physicians regardless of their degree. Taking the time to realize that we have great power to heal, but also to harm, is a necessary first step.

Look beyond the disease for the cause. Treatment should center on the cause, with effect addressed only when it benefits the patient in some tangible way.

Ok. Find the cause of disease, treat the cause of disease so that it helps the patient. Common Sense.

The practice of medicine should be based on sound medical principles. Only therapies proven clinically beneficial in improving patient outcome should be recommended.

AKA "Evidence Based Medicine" Happens every day in the medical world. Every drug, study, or procedure. That includes OMT which does indeed have evidence behind it, despite what people who have never done a lit search think.

The body is subject to mechanical laws. The science of physics applies to humans. Even a slight alteration in the body's precision can result in disorders that overcome natural defenses.

Cut the skin (the bodys best defense) and you open the body for infection. Poor function in any one organ can have systemic effects.

The body has the potential to make all substances necessary to insure its health. No medical approach can exceed the efficacy of the body's natural defense systems if those defenses are functioning properly. Therefore, teaching the patient to care for his own health and to prevent disease is part of a physician's responsibility.

Immunology 101 and High School Health class.


The nervous system controls, influences, and/or integrates all bodily functions.

I dont think any anatomist will disagree here.


NOW, to those of you who are so believing in the osteopathic philosophy...show me how anything above is uniquely osteopathic.

Sounds like most of it is common sense mixed in with a sound knowledge of anatomy and physiology.

Ahh...so there you have it.

We DOs have based our learning and philosophy around sound, structural, evidence based medicine for the betterment of our patients. And we can incorporate manual medicine to enhance the other treatments we can offer.

Doesnt make us unique (other than OMT), it just makes us good doctors.

JPHazelton, DO

 

[DropkickMurphy]

it just makes us good doctors.

With this I have no issue whatsoever.

Thank you for posting that JP. 👍

 

[scpod]

Well, the poll was about what premeds think, but it always seems to come back down to initials since that seems to be the only tangible difference (damn near every DO I've ever worked with has said this) are the honoratives since most docs don't use OMM.

Why do you even care about what premeds think? They have no clue yet, nor really do most people who haven't yet attended an osteopathic school. Have you even been to an osteopathic convention? You'd be amazed how popular the OMM forums are and how many DOs really do use OMM in their practice. A lot of those stats about OMM use were based on flawed studies using Medicare and insurance billing codes... and codes don't tell you what really went on because a lot of docs simply bill with a higher level visit, rather than use a modifier 25 and OMT code. If DO's are guilty of anything then it's not knowing the proper way to bill and get paid.

And, like JP said, the osteopathic tenents are a lot of common sense, but I still believe that it's a difference because people like me look at the philosophical side of things. At a time when medicine was only just becoming a science, Still and friends developed Osteopathy with a philosophy as well. To me, the more and more we strive to make medicine an exact science (although it will never be) through EBM and other types of cookbook medicine, the more we also need to remember that there are humans involved-- humans making the decisions as opposed to the laws of nature making the decisions like you'd find in physics or mathematics. Having a "philosophy" sets you apart, even if it is only common sense because it's something that lets you see beyond the laws of nature. Maybe it makes us a little kooky at times too 🙂

 

[Dr JPH]

Why do you even care about what premeds think? They have no clue yet, nor really do most people who haven't yet attended an osteopathic school. Have you even been to an osteopathic convention? You'd be amazed how popular the OMM forums are and how many DOs really do use OMM in their practice. A lot of those stats about OMM use were based on flawed studies using Medicare and insurance billing codes... and codes don't tell you what really went on because a lot of docs simply bill with a higher level visit, rather than use a modifier 25 and OMT code. If DO's are guilty of anything then it's not knowing the proper way to bill and get paid.

I agree here.

If you look at surveys conducted you see the use of OMT is actually much higher than billing codes and "specialty designation" might show.

There was a survery done not too long ago regarding EMED docs and OMT.

The largest group of DOs are the ones who dont use OMT on their patients but on friends and family they dont hesitate to crack a neck or treat someones back.

 

[Toohotinvegas33]

DKM when are you actually applying to med school? Because I just can't wait when your my first year b**** . See you in Iowa!😀

 

[Toohotinvegas33]

Also why did you put this poll in the premed area? They haven't learn any OMM/OMT/philosophy yet and can only go by the garbage that comes form you.

 

[Beau Geste]

I don't think there's anyway to say all of what the D.O. philosophy encompasses is 100% true, so I picked the "some is true and I won't lie" option because it was the next best.

I definitely think DOs are a bit more open to CAM and to some extent it can be a benefit to traditional pharmaceutical treatment.

At any rate, I applied to DO schools not as backup (although thank goodness they accept lower MCAT scores than MD schools) but because I think I would become a great doctor by going that route as well.

 

[112258]

At my school at least they say we have to learn anatomy/musculoskeletal stuff a lot more than our MD student counterparts 🙁

Lots of work now, but hopefully that will pay off in the future 🙂

And its only been a week, but I think the OMM stuff we learn is interesting! All the DOs that have talked about it have been really excited about using it.

 

[Dr JPH]

I definitely think DOs are a bit more open to CAM and to some extent it can be a benefit to traditional pharmaceutical treatment.

Is this just your opinion or do you have some sort of data to back this up?

What are your thoughts on labeling osteopathic manipulative medicine as CAM?

What is your definition of "traditional pharmaceutical treatment"?

What literature have you read on OMT that, in your mind, supports its use as a valuable treatment modality?

Furthermore, what is your definition of CAM?

And finally, with the already apparent bias towards DOs (as so eloquently described by our Allopathic Pre Med community 🙄 ) do you feel its wise for the osteopathic community to encourage the use or futher promotion of unproven therapies and alternative treatment modalities?

 

[Shinken]

Is this just your opinion or do you have some sort of data to back this up?

Our medical library has some Alternative/Complementary medicine journal on the shelves. I find it interesting that of all the authors, members of the editorial board, etc. the vast majority are MDs, some are DOMs and Naturopaths, and perhaps only one or two are DOs. Not a representative sample, but interesting nevertheless.

 

[Northerner]

At my school at least they say we have to learn anatomy/musculoskeletal stuff a lot more than our MD student counterparts 🙁

Lots of work now, but hopefully that will pay off in the future 🙂

And its only been a week, but I think the OMM stuff we learn is interesting! All the DOs that have talked about it have been really excited about using it.

Then why's your username "LisaMD"? Have a little change of heart, did we?

 

[EEL08]

Then why's your username "LisaMD"? Have a little change of heart, did we?

I may be wrong but could it possibly be because she lived in MD before moving to PA?

 

[gasapple]

Then why's your username "LisaMD"? Have a little change of heart, did we?

Hey, just check out her former location, MD. I think that explains that she's consistent.

 

[scpod]

Then why's your username "LisaMD"? Have a little change of heart, did we?

Actually, the others are right. Her MD does stand for Maryland. It's been discussed before. I guess that memo didn'y get out to everyone. BTW, next week there are 1/2 price oral podectomys available. 😀😀

 

[Beau Geste]

Is this just your opinion or do you have some sort of data to back this up?

Yes, this is my opinion, especially when I start off a sentence with "I definitely think..."

What are your thoughts on labeling osteopathic manipulative medicine as CAM?

I didn't label the DO profession as CAM. I stated it seemed more open to CAM than the MD profession. Again, my opinion.

What is your definition of "traditional pharmaceutical treatment"?

prescribing antibiotics at the drop of a hat (especially for ear infections) prescribing weight loss medication over diet and exercise are two that pop into my head. Did I say that ALL MD docs follow that regimen? Nope. I just offered my opinion that it seems more DOs are open to other alternatives before whipping out the prescription pad.

What literature have you read on OMT that, in your mind, supports its use as a valuable treatment modality?

none so far. As I said earlier, it's just my opinion and experience with MDs vs. DOs in that respect. If I end up going to a DO school, I'm sure I'll have more resources at my fingertips. Maybe others can provide the info you are looking for.

Furthermore, what is your definition of CAM?

an alternative way to a traditional treatment algorithm. This includes drugs/supplements/behavior that may not be FDA approved or doesn't have a whole lot of research behind it. I'm not for pulling treatments out of a hat, but there are certainly other things to be considered. For example, I have been very lethargic and feeling somewhat on the verge of depression and anxiety for a little while now. Instead of going to the doctor and begging for antidepressants and antianxiety meds I am giving myself a trial of daily multivitamin, 4 omega-3 capsules, CoQ 10, vitamin B supplement and other antioxidants. I went from feeling tired all the time, sleeping 10-11 hours a day to feeling great and needing between 6-8 hours - and best of all feeling refreshed. So I'm holding off on the antidepressants because I feel pretty great now. That's a classic example of what I consider CAM vs. traditional treatments.

And finally, with the already apparent bias towards DOs (as so eloquently described by our Allopathic Pre Med community 🙄 ) do you feel its wise for the osteopathic community to encourage the use or futher promotion of unproven therapies and alternative treatment modalities?

I encourage more research. Some unproven therapies DO work, and others DO NOT work. The challenge is to somehow normalize them through research studies. But I suppose the same could be said for the "traditional" drugs too. There are some that work for certain people and some that don't for others. Whatever.

I'm curious as to why you lashed out at me here. I've been a pretty big supporter of your posts. It's obvious you misread what I wrote because it's not fact, it's my opinion all the way (hence the "I think...").

If I thought the DO profession was a joke or hokey in any way, I wouldn't apply to the DO med schools. I love medicine, but I also want to think outside the box sometimes.

And you should know I'm not a typical pre-med. I've been working in healthcare for quite a while. That doesn't mean I know everything but give me some credit, will ya?

 

[Beau Geste]

A question for you now, JP. Did you go to a DO school because you actually think DOs have value in society, or was that the only place you could get in? I'm seriously curious. You sound very disheartened with osteopathy and you certainly love to "stick it" to people who tout the benefits or (in my case) positive opinions of the DO profession.

And no, my post was not misinformed, misguided, or anything else of the sort.

 

[DoctorMom78]

OMT is the difference so how can that be debated? 😕 While not all use it, it still is an indepth tool of the working human anatomy that if you go MD (unless your school offers advance study in anatomy which some do but even so its not OMT) you do not have, is it not?

Perfect example, woman came into a clinic with foot/ankle pain. A student was volunteering with a local MD school in the clinic as the only DO there. The MD students saw the patient and reported to the physician. No treatment, just sore muscles, give pain meds. The DO student chimed in that it might be a bone out of place. Goes in, fixes it, patient goes home without pain meds and problem hopefully resolved. A third year medical student shared this with me last year when we were discussing uses of OMT in real world applications.

So do I believe there is a philosophical difference? Yes I do because for those who study OMT, it can help doctors keep an open mind of the integrative efforts of the body. Would a good MD have come to that conclusion? Maybe so, or maybe would have referred to a podiatrist who could have fixed the issue. But the point is, the MD might not have been able to treat on the spot, the DO student could and did. The hands on approach to our anatomy absolutely amazes me. And while I probably would end up being someone who doesn't use OMT in practice everyday, its still an important tool 👍

I actually disagree. I think that there is more of a difference than just OMM and I think that the philosophy of osteopathic medicine extends far beyond that. I am still working on learning the brachial plexus though, so I don't have time to elaborate on that now. 😀 (Gotta love anatomy!) Anyway, I was actually just picking on DKM. We have had similar discussions before. 😛 😉

 

[ShyRem]

Better learn that one. If you have Dr. Cross, he WILL randomly pick someone to come draw it on the board, and then someone else to label it.

 

[DoctorMom78]

Better learn that one. If you have Dr. Cross, he WILL randomly pick someone to come draw it on the board, and then someone else to label it.

LOL! I KNOW!!! He told us that he was going to do that to us. That's is why we are all obsessively studying the brachial plexus and the innervation of the upper extremity this weekend. 😱😛

He is a great teacher, but wow, does he go through that stuff fast! 😀

 

[medstud2ndyr]

.....

 

[Dr JPH]

A question for you now, JP. Did you go to a DO school because you actually think DOs have value in society, or was that the only place you could get in? I'm seriously curious. You sound very disheartened with osteopathy and you certainly love to "stick it" to people who tout the benefits or (in my case) positive opinions of the DO profession.

And no, my post was not misinformed, misguided, or anything else of the sort.

I went to PCOM to learn OMT. I spent an additional year at PCOM specifically to increase my knowledge and treatment abilities regarding OMT.

To say that DOs are less likely to prescribe medications, more likely to buy into unproven and holistic practices, and have their own philosophy is ignorant. It shows a lack of understanding what DO school is all about.

Dont waste your time trying to learn some non existent osteopathic philosophy or the magical uses of roots and berries. Study your medicine, become proficient in OMT and be the best doctor you can be.

You want to improve the future of osteopathic medicine? Stop hanging onto these dated thoughts of "separate but equal" and "osteopathic philosophy" and step into the real world.

It doesnt matter how many books, NBC specials or research proposals study CAM...its not going to make it into mainstream medicine.

And dont lump OMT in with alternative medicine. Physical therapists and Physiatrists use OMT...they just call it something else. The minute we label something as OMT the allopathic gods want to call it voodoo...yet they themselves will go to a chiropractor or refer patients to rehab. Funny. We started most of that...the other professions are just better at advertising it and not fighting amongst themselves...they arent trying to be what theyre not.

 

[Dr JPH]

Just wait until you start learning OMM & realize that it only helps Back & Neck pain. Otherwise, it is a bunch of BS!

-2ndyr

Only. Right.

I can name more than a dozen chief complaints where OMT is useful.

To say that it is only good for neck pain and back pain shows a total lack of understanding as to the physiology behind manual medicine, not to mention a lack of knowledge regarding treating other areas of the body.

You should spend more time studying OMT to help your future patients...instead of rallying against RVU and trying to change your future degree.

You have the potential to make a half decent DO.

Instead youre on your way to being a piss poor MD wannabe.

 

[abeytt03]

Only. Right.

I can name more than a dozen chief complaints where OMT is useful.

To say that it is only good for neck pain and back pain shows a total lack of understanding as to the physiology behind manual medicine, not to mention a lack of knowledge regarding treating other areas of the body.

You should spend more time studying OMT to help your future patients...instead of rallying against RVU and trying to change your future degree.

You have the potential to make a half decent DO.

Instead youre on your way to being a piss poor MD wannabe.

Obnoxious and Defensive.

 

[Beau Geste]

To say that DOs are less likely to prescribe medications, more likely to buy into unproven and holistic practices, and have their own philosophy is ignorant. It shows a lack of understanding what DO school is all about.

I would say that all pre-meds have some level of ignorance of medicine about them, otherwise we wouldn't need to go to med school. Whatever I need to learn re: differences between DO and MD, I'm sure I'll be completely clear on that if I end up at a DO school.

Never once did I say I expect my education to exist solely on CAM. If I expected that, I would be an ND (dear God, NO!). At this point, I'm a consumer of DO services AND MD services, and I prefer my DO because he is much better at looking at the "big picture" and drawing other options into treatments vs. my experience with MDs.

Dont waste your time trying to learn some non existent osteopathic philosophy or the magical uses of roots and berries. Study your medicine, become proficient in OMT and be the best doctor you can be.

I'm all for that. Contemporary medicine is an awesome thing. When I get my period, I don't use some crazy herb, I down Naproxen Sodium (prob. too much) to relieve my pain. For my severe hives that lasted 9 months, you better believe I worshiped prednisone, doxepin, zyrtec, and benadryl.

But I'm also interested in exploring the unconventional. So there.

You want to improve the future of osteopathic medicine? Stop hanging onto these dated thoughts of "separate but equal" and "osteopathic philosophy" and step into the real world.

in the real world, I know there's not much difference. Hell, in the real world, how many DOs actually use OMM/OMT? I must have won the jackpot with the DOs I've seen because they impressed me tremendously and influenced my decision to apply to DO schools. I know some great MDs too (my mother for one)

It doesnt matter how many books, NBC specials or research proposals study CAM...its not going to make it into mainstream medicine.

well, that depends on YOUR definition of CAM. BTW - does massage therapy count?

And dont lump OMT in with alternative medicine. Physical therapists and Physiatrists use OMT...they just call it something else. The minute we label something as OMT the allopathic gods want to call it voodoo...yet they themselves will go to a chiropractor or refer patients to rehab. Funny. We started most of that...the other professions are just better at advertising it and not fighting amongst themselves...they arent trying to be what theyre not.

I never even voiced my opinion or said a word about OMT. So how could I have lumped it in with alternative medicine?

What's eating you today? Geez!

 

[mastamark]

Only. Right.

I can name more than a dozen chief complaints where OMT is useful.

To say that it is only good for neck pain and back pain shows a total lack of understanding as to the physiology behind manual medicine, not to mention a lack of knowledge regarding treating other areas of the body.

You should spend more time studying OMT to help your future patients...instead of rallying against RVU and trying to change your future degree.

You have the potential to make a half decent DO.

Instead youre on your way to being a piss poor MD wannabe.

I think that was put very well. A little on the tough side, but valid.

I dealt with a lot of sinus infections in which antibiotics were the only method of treatment offered. I found a DO to treat me and there were OMT techniques used to promote drainage of my sinuses, it worked. So when someone training to be a DO claims that it is only useful for neck and back pain shows that they either did not study it deeply or they are poorly educated.

👍 For JP.

 

[cyclohexanol]

Life and times of abeytt03
An autobiography by abeytt03

Obnoxious and Defensive.

Fin.​

👍

 

[Dr JPH]

Obnoxious and Defensive.

But completely true.