How many publications does the typical MD/PhD student have by the time they graduate?

[ArrogantSurgeon]

On average, how many pubs do most MD/PhD students have by the time they graduate? I'm only talking about actual articles, not abstracts.

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[MacGyver]

Well I'd say a typical grad has 5 or 6 first author pubs and 8-10 second-fourth author pubs.

 

[Airborne]

I thnk that Macgyver is a little optimistic regarding what the average person has at graduation. The average person in my schools program ranges anywhere from 2-5 TOTAL. A few get out with none - it is rare though. I know one person who has justed finished up his 3rd year of medical school and had 1 publication (albeit it was a first authorship in Science) - Then again, there is an intern here who got 15 publications from his PhD! It is all very dependent on the lab and your role in not only your project, but other peoples projects (ie you run some of there stuff through your assay). Clearly, with small labs, the number of pubs often goes down. From my PhD, I currently have 7 (5-first author) and another 2 I really should get out, but have been absolutely swamped in clerkships - hopefully 4th year of medical school will allow more free time for writing.

To validate my response to the smaller numbers vs. what Macgyver indicates - Go to a couple residency programs that you may be interested, find some of the residents who are MD/PhD's and do a Pubmed search on them to find out the number of publications they come out with. I am sure you will find that many are around 3-5 total.

Best of luck - and remember to pick a good project and advisor - it is of utmost importance to complete early and complete well.

Regards,

Airborne

 

[Vader]

Some programs make publication lists from their students freely available to give applicants an idea of how well their students publish. At the programs I am familiar with, I would say the averages tend to be what Airborne described, but certainly there have been individuals who have the numbers MacGyver alluded to.

In general, for MD/PhD students, the quantity of publications is not as critical as for PhD students. Of course this depends on your career plans (i.e. if you plan to pursue a residency, versus a postdoctoral fellowship, versus industry, etc).

That being said, MD/PhD graduates (at least at the programs I am familiar with) tend to have excellent publication records (even more so in terms of quality).

 

[pathdr2b]

Originally posted by Airborne
I thnk that Macgyver is a little optimistic regarding what the average person has at graduation. The average person in my schools program ranges anywhere from 2-5 TOTAL. A few get out with none - it is rare though. Airborne

The same is true for UNC-Chapel Hill where I was a graduate student. I think people need to start taking MacGyver's info with a grain of salt since he's usually just plain wrong or overexagerates.

 

[MacGyver]

Originally posted by pathdr2b
The same is true for UNC-Chapel Hill where I was a graduate student. I think people need to start taking MacGyver's info with a grain of salt since he's usually just plain wrong or overexagerates.

Dont hate me just because you cant aspire to my publication output.

Let me guess, you have 20 first author Science articles, 5 Nature first author pubs in press, and you are on the short list for the Nobel Prize.

I'm sure that fits right in with your 42 MCAT

 

[ArrogantSurgeon]

Calm down MacGyver. I agree with others in saying that the numbers of pubs you stated for a typical MD/PhD grad is totally inflated. Sure a few may get that many pubs, but even then they probably came into the program with a couple of pubs already under their belt.

 

[pathdr2b]

Back to the topic, I know people that have finished form Chapel Hill MD/PhD program with only one or 2 pubs.

 

[MacGyver]

I agree with others in saying that the numbers of pubs you stated for a typical MD/PhD grad is totally inflated.

Arent you the one who asked the question to begin with? If you're not MD/PhD how the hell would you know regardless?

 

[MacGyver]

Well well well... look at this little gem of a private message I got from pathdr. Bravo, girl, bravo.

Originally posted by pathdr2b
You are one nasty Bas!ard

I just want to say for the record F*uck you and the horse you came in on.

🙄 😀

 

[pathdr2b]

Originally posted by MacGyver
Well well well... look at this little gem of a private message I got from pathdr. Bravo, girl, bravo.

Thank you MacGoober (shall I call you Goober to keep it simple?) for posting that. I figured you'd announce my message to the world for me because you're so predictable I'm SURE I'm not the only one on this and other threads that feels this way about you! So Bravo to you little man/boy!

 

[marq_bme]

5-7 is a lot of pubs man. is this typical for wet-lab/bio research? cuz, im prob going into bioengineering, and i can't see myself publishing nearly that much.

 

[pathdr2b]

Originally posted by marq_bme
5-7 is a lot of pubs man. is this typical for wet-lab/bio research? cuz, im prob going into bioengineering, and i can't see myself publishing nearly that much.

Take my advice, don't trust the words of someone ( ie Goober) that's NEVER been to graduate school. 2-5 is quite normal.

 

[Doctor&Geek]

Again,

To reiterate what others have said, it not normal for an MD/PhD student to have that many publications before graduating. In fact is it probably BAD to have that many publications!

1. Having that many means you're probably working more than three years in the lab, which means the mentor you're working for will probably not let you move on to better and greater things. You know those horror stories of those in their 10th year of PhD work? Many of those haven't published that much to begin with even in 10 years or have switched labs, but there are some that have been there for 10 years because their mentor doesn't think they "ready to leave". That's not the situation you want to get into.

2. Another possibility is where one gets lucky and has a mentor that publishes 15 papers a year and lets you get on most of them, if even for less work than a figure - again quite rare (and also probably wrong).

3. The final possibility is that you have 4-5 first author pubs in Biochimica et Biophysica Acta, or even if you're at some big big place, 4-5 first author pubs in JBC. Again, CV padding based on number of publication is a mistake. Any faculty worth his salt would take good work in Cell/Science/Nature, or even MCB over 3 articles in BBA or JCS.

Yes, you want to publish high quality work, and you want to publish more than one or two. But if your time is valuable to you, its not necessary, and in fact it is NOT GOOD. Get good training in how to do science (isn't that what you're there for, and not to build a post-doc like CV?) and get out, and do a good postdoc/fellowship/residency, because that's what folks are going to look at when you apply for a tenure-track position.

Yours,

JPaikman

PS: MacGyver, I would like to see a list of people that we can search in Pubmed for that lists your "typical number" of publications for an MD/PhD graduate, or in fact for ANY graduate student. This list will have N > 20 and come from more than one institution. Considering that there are more than 2000 of us in MD/PhD programs, I don't think it will be that hard. Failure to do so will make me laugh and ignore anything you post further.

 

[marq_bme]

Originally posted by JPaikman
Again,

To reiterate what others have said, it not normal for an MD/PhD student to have that many publications before graduating. In fact is it probably BAD to have that many publications!

1. Having that many means you're probably working more than three years in the lab, which means the mentor you're working for will probably not let you move on to better and greater things. You know those horror stories of those in their 10th year of PhD work? Many of those haven't published that much to begin with even in 10 years or have switched labs, but there are some that have been there for 10 years because their mentor doesn't think they "ready to leave". That's not the situation you want to get into.

2. Another possibility is where one gets lucky and has a mentor that publishes 15 papers a year and lets you get on most of them, if even for less work than a figure - again quite rare (and also probably wrong).

3. The final possibility is that you have 4-5 first author pubs in Biochimica et Biophysica Acta, or even if you're at some big big place, 4-5 first author pubs in JBC. Again, CV padding based on number of publication is a mistake. Any faculty worth his salt would take good work in Cell/Science/Nature, or even MCB over 3 articles in BBA or JCS.

Yes, you want to publish high quality work, and you want to publish more than one or two. But if your time is valuable to you, its not necessary, and in fact it is NOT GOOD. Get good training in how to do science (isn't that what you're there for, and not to build a post-doc like CV?) and get out, and do a good postdoc/fellowship/residency, because that's what folks are going to look at when you apply for a tenure-track position.

Yours,

JPaikman

PS: MacGyver, I would like to see a list of people that we can search in Pubmed for that lists your "typical number" of publications for an MD/PhD graduate, or in fact for ANY graduate student. This list will have N > 20 and come from more than one institution. Considering that there are more than 2000 of us in MD/PhD programs, I don't think it will be that hard. Failure to do so will make me laugh and ignore anything you post further.

Hahaha , this is exactly what my PI said--the post-doc work is crucial to your getting a position later, and that PhD years are just to learn/train/think.