How much do connections really help?

[ironicallyunsur]

i'm only going to be a sophomore and i plan on getting my masters (it will only take 1 year) before applying to med school, but i was wondering how much having "connections" at med schools help in admissions. my mother lectures (not a prof) at a medical school, has friends at numerous medical schools (both professors and on adcoms), and my best friend's aunt is the dean of admissions at a med school. assuming i have decent stats by the time i apply, how much do you think these things could help?

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[Dulcina]

i'd say not at all, which is the way it should be

 

[flip26]

Connections matter very little if at all. Med school admissions is almost exclusively a merit driven process, with some special consideration given to hardship and URM status.

 

[shemarty]

Yea, not at all.

Unless one of them has worked with you in a professional setting and can write you a letter of recommendation... in which case it might help a tiny tiny tiny bit, but probably not much.

 

[MilkmanAl]

It depends on what your connections are. It can range from "you're in" to no help at all. I'd say it's more difficult to have a "you're in" connection than it would be for just about anything else, but it still happens.

 

[ANF1986]

Connections matter very little if at all. Med school admissions is almost exclusively a merit driven process, with some special consideration given to hardship and URM status.

You know this how? You cant make a blanket statement for 150+ med schools in the country. Like everything in the world, connections do matter. It is often just as much about who you know than what you know. Meritocracy is great, but nepotism is better 🙂...

I'll just say that I personally know of a person who matriculated into medical school with an abysmal MCAT score that ordinarily would not have gotten this person even an interview. The person is the child of the President of this medical school. No names here, but it does happen. I would say its more often the very rare exception rather than the rule.

OP, it sounds like you know some rather influential people, you should do some posturing in the next few years to become more well connected to these people. It can only serve to help you...

 

[bamtuba]

It depends on what your connections are. It can range from "you're in" to no help at all. I'd say it's more difficult to have a "you're in" connection than it would be for just about anything else, but it still happens.

Connections matter the higher up on the food chain that the connection is with increasing effectiveness of the relationship to the individual.

I personally know someone who was waitlisted at what is considered a top 20 school. This person worked with an individual who made a call to the Dean of the school. Within four hours that person had been notified of their acceptance.

Right or wrong, it does happen.

 

[flip26]

Connections matter the higher up on the food chain that the connection is with increasing effectiveness of the relationship to the individual.

I personally know someone who was waitlisted at what is considered a top 20 school. This person worked with an individual who made a call to the Dean of the school. Within four hours that person had been notified of their acceptance.

Right or wrong, it does happen.

Yeah, but the person had already gotten to the waitlist on their own merits.

 

[Mattabet]

I agree with some of the above sentiment; there's probably a range. In your case, OP, I wouldn't expect a lot of help - but it can't hurt.

At the same time though, if I'm running a school, and a million dollar donor wants his kid to go to my school, I'd be a fool not to bend over backwards to accept him. By taking one mediocre student, I'd be able to scholarship three great students or fund all sorts of projects. Obviously, I still can't take an 18 MCAT, college dropout, but if they can get themselves through it'd be worth it for the institution to make it happen. That's just the way the world turns.

 

[flip26]

You know this how? You cant make a blanket statement for 150+ med schools in the country. Like everything in the world, connections do matter. It is often just as much about who you know than what you know. Meritocracy is great, but nepotism is better 🙂...

I'll just say that I personally know of a person who matriculated into medical school with an abysmal MCAT score that ordinarily would not have gotten this person even an interview. The person is the child of the President of this medical school. No names here, but it does happen. I would say its more often the very rare exception rather than the rule.

OP, it sounds like you know some rather influential people, you should do some posturing in the next few years to become more well connected to these people. It can only serve to help you...

Gee, that's not a blanket statement, is it...

Your example is ridiculous, an urban myth you are passing off as proof of nothing.

Name the school, and the president of the medical school (wtf is a "president" of a med school anyway?).

Your advice is garbage. OP, howzabout working on your grades, your ECs, your MCAT, etc., and put your best effort out there...much better advice for anyone shooting for med school than to do some "posturing." Good grief, what lousy advice...

 

[leonc]

i'm only going to be a sophomore and i plan on getting my masters (it will only take 1 year) before applying to med school, but i was wondering how much having "connections" at med schools help in admissions. my mother lectures (not a prof) at a medical school, has friends at numerous medical schools (both professors and on adcoms), and my best friend's aunt is the dean of admissions at a med school. assuming i have decent stats by the time i apply, how much do you think these things could help?

When I tutored my cousin (10th grade) about 3 months ago, he told me that there was a third-year medical student guest speaker in his medical science class. That medical student said that connection plays a huge factor in terms of med school admission. He said that alot of his classmates would not have gotten in without connection. That is why alot of private medical school's secondaries will ask whether or not you know someone who works in the school or if your family members or relatives work there. If your parents donate lots of money to the school every year, I don't see why they will reject you.

 

[ANF1986]

Gee, that's not a blanket statement, is it...

Your example is ridiculous, an urban myth you are passing off as proof of nothing.

Name the school, and the president of the medical school (wtf is a "president" of a med school anyway?).

Your advice is garbage. OP, howzabout working on your grades, your ECs, your MCAT, etc., and put your best effort out there...much better advice for anyone shooting for med school than to do some "posturing." Good grief, what lousy advice...

UMDNJ-SOM, Dean Wallace, his daughter....

I never suggested the kid not try hard, keep his grades up, ECs, MCAT, etc, etc. However, IN ADDITION to the things a normal applicant has, if you think that knowing the right people has no effect on barriers to entry in ANY FIELD, you are seriously dillusional to how the real world works. Why shouldnt the OP use his connections in addition to a strong application? You will find out when you graduate medical school how political of an environment your average hospital is.

 

[YouNeverKnow22]

I disagree I think connections help to a DEGREE, to say it doesn't help at all is foolish. If you shadow multiple doctors at a University Hospital who are also professors and make a great impression on them and they write your LOR there is a good chance the Admissions officer knows them. Which will give you the push over the top if the person who wrote your LOR is someone respected. Obviously you HAVE to have the grades just like everyone else and EC's, etc. but knowing someone important in my humble opinion can have weight.

 

[witness23]

admissions are still a committee decision, i believe
it might help you get interviews


having connections is great because it doesn't take up much of your time, so you can continue to focus on presenting yourself to be med school ready

 

[DrJosephKim]

Connections play a much bigger role when it comes time for residency, so maintain those connections and I think you'll do fine as long as you get into a solid medical school program.

 

[MossPoh]

Connections don't matter that much. Every school I had "connections" at didn't even interview me.

The people that are the president's son or daughter are so few and far between it is ridiculous. In the other end, I know a kid who's dad is on the adcom and is a prof at a medical school yet he didn't get in there. He was actually rejected. Most proper medical schools have people that remove themselves from the decision if they know the applicant.

 

[flip26]

When I tutored my cousin (10th grade) about 3 months ago, he told me that there was a third-year medical student guest speaker in his medical science class. That medical student said that connection plays a huge factor in terms of med school admission. He said that alot of his classmates would not have gotten in without connection. That is why alot of private medical school's secondaries will ask whether or not you know someone who works in the school or if your family members or relatives work there. If your parents donate lots of money to the school every year, I don't see why they will reject you.

Umm, with all due respect to you and your 10th grade cousin, this is not exactly a rock solid chain of evidence on which to base the conclusion that connections are a "huge" factor in admissions...

 

[flip26]

UMDNJ-SOM, Dean Wallace, his daughter....

I never suggested the kid not try hard, keep his grades up, ECs, MCAT, etc, etc. However, IN ADDITION to the things a normal applicant has, if you think that knowing the right people has no effect on barriers to entry in ANY FIELD, you are seriously dillusional to how the real world works. Why shouldnt the OP use his connections in addition to a strong application? You will find out when you graduate medical school how political of an environment your average hospital is.

Too bad you didn't get your facts straight even though if it had been true it still would not support your contention that "connections" (nepotism) are more important than merit.

Although there are allegations that he tried to get his daughter admitted through nefarious means, evidently his daughter was NOT admitted to UMDNJ. He was fired for various acts of malfeasance per news reports I found on the interweb - sounds like a real swell guy...google him.

Oh, and his title was "Dean" and not "President."

 

[UVAbme2009]

Yea, not at all.

Unless one of them has worked with you in a professional setting and can write you a letter of recommendation... in which case it might help a tiny tiny tiny bit, but probably not much.

This should not be overlooked. Most of us will not have the benefit of having a direct relationship with somebody as influential as a dean of a medical school.

But if you wind up working with an influential physician who wants to go out of their way to help, take every advantage of that. I don't really look at that as an unfair advantage. Rather it's a well respected and well known physician giving you a solid recommendation. That's what's most important.

 

[ironicallyunsur]

thanks for the input guys. i wasn't saying that i won't try hard or study for the MCAT, i was just wondering if it actually mattered or helped at all. i'll look into more shadowing with the people i know or something then. thanks again.

 

[LizzyM]

There was a news story a year ago last Spring about shenanigans at U Florida over the son of a doctor who was a fund raiser for the governor. Look for the thread called Buying Your Way into Medical School.

For the more ordinary connections with someone from the school, you might be more likely to be selected for an interview (chosen over someone with the same stats) but after that you are on your own. In other words, knowing someone won't make up for a deficient personality or motivation for medicine but it might give you the boost you need to get an interview.

YMMV.

 

[leonc]

Umm, with all due respect to you and your 10th grade cousin, this is not exactly a rock solid chain of evidence on which to base the conclusion that connections are a "huge" factor in admissions...

I agree with you. And I have no idea why that MS3 mentioned that as a guest speaker. But I think we would be too naive to think that connection will not help at all. For example, when the alternate pool is not ranked, you start wondering if connection comes into play.

 

[buccsmf1]

There was a news story a year ago last Spring about shenanigans at U Florida over the son of a doctor who was a fund raiser for the governor. Look for the thread called Buying Your Way into Medical School.

For the more ordinary connections with someone from the school, you might be more likely to be selected for an interview (chosen over someone with the same stats) but after that you are on your own. In other words, knowing someone won't make up for a deficient personality or motivation for medicine but it might give you the boost you need to get an interview.

YMMV.

I would tend to agree. It isn't going to give you a huge boost but might be enough to help you stand out enough to get an interview or make your way through a wait-list a little faster. My dad was waitlisted at a med-school about 25 years ago and it turned out that my grandfather (mom's dad) was drinking buddies with the someone high up (not going to give specifics) at the medical school. Grandfather called him up and within a few days he was accepted off the wait-list. Granted things were a little different back then (george bush - yale/harvard), but it can still help a little.

There are, of course, a million different degrees here. The, "my mom is friends with one of the professors there" isnt going to do crap for you. But if you are related to someone on the board or your family donates money then yea, obviously this is going to help

 

[YouNeverKnow22]

There was a news story a year ago last Spring about shenanigans at U Florida over the son of a doctor who was a fund raiser for the governor. Look for the thread called Buying Your Way into Medical School.

For the more ordinary connections with someone from the school, you might be more likely to be selected for an interview (chosen over someone with the same stats) but after that you are on your own. In other words, knowing someone won't make up for a deficient personality or motivation for medicine but it might give you the boost you need to get an interview.

YMMV.

this is what I was trying to get at, it does give you some kind of boost...but obviously you gotta prove your worthy...

 

[ANF1986]

Too bad you didn't get your facts straight even though if it had been true it still would not support your contention that "connections" (nepotism) are more important than merit.

Although there are allegations that he tried to get his daughter admitted through nefarious means, evidently his daughter was NOT admitted to UMDNJ. He was fired for various acts of malfeasance per news reports I found on the interweb - sounds like a real swell guy...google him.

Oh, and his title was "Dean" and not "President."

I dont need to google him, I know the circumstances surrounding the incident, I know his Democratic running mate for county Freeholder. The point was not that she did not ultimately get in, it was that people who are in influential positions have the ability to affect admissions decisions. It just so happened that during the time he pulled the strings for his daughter, he was being investigated by the FBI for a lot of questionable financial activities. This was how the activity was discovered. The point of this being, that in other circumstances where there is not an investigation, this sort of thing does happen, and knowing people does HELP.

You are seriously misrepresenting my words to suit your own argument here. I never said that nepotism was more IMPORTANT than merit, I simply stated in a joking manner that nepotism was "better." While I dont believe that merits are unimportant, I do believe that knowing the right people certainly opens more doors than it closes. I was by no means advocating that you could get into programs being completely unqualified and solely on the back of nepotism, as you implied.

 

[flip26]

I dont need to google him, I know the circumstances surrounding the incident, I know his Democratic running mate for county Freeholder. The point was not that she did not ultimately get in, it was that people who are in influential positions have the ability to affect admissions decisions. It just so happened that during the time he pulled the strings for his daughter, he was being investigated by the FBI for a lot of questionable financial activities. This was how the activity was discovered. The point of this being, that in other circumstances where there is not an investigation, this sort of thing does happen, and knowing people does HELP.

You are seriously misrepresenting my words to suit your own argument here. I never said that nepotism was more IMPORTANT than merit, I simply stated in a joking manner that nepotism was "better." While I dont believe that merits are unimportant, I do believe that knowing the right people certainly opens more doors than it closes. I was by no means advocating that you could get into programs being completely unqualified and solely on the back of nepotism, as you implied.

What a joke! You continue to claim that you personally know the circumstances surrounding the incident, yet your version is out of sync with the facts.

How was your point you made in a prior post NOT the point you made?

You claimed to personally know the circumstances where someone was ADMITTED to med school via nepotism.

And I exposed your anecdote as a mistatement of facts easily found via google; the system worked - she was NOT ADMITTED.

Thank goodness you "don't believe that merits are unimportant." We are all relieved to know that you think merit plays at least a small part in this process...your opinions are so highly valued here on SDN!

 

[pietachok]

I think your type of connections can be really hard to predict, and in my opinion they have a downside.

I did not get interviews where I've been employed; although I was offered a *courtesy interview* (and yes, those are the words in the email from the dean) at one, I declined after acceptance to USC b/c I didn't want to go to school w/ the favor hanging over my head. If I turn out to be a mediocre med student, I don't want to feel like I owe my bosses better and feel awkward.

I believe my mom's alma mater also gave me a courtesy interview, which was more frustrating than useful, b/c I don't think I stood a chance as an OOS applicant in a year they were *decreasing* their class size. My dad's alma mater (a top tier school where he used to be on the adcom) sent me a 2ndary I shouldn't have gotten as an OOS applicant w/ my GPA; then they ignored me. IMHO, both were a waste of time, energy, hopes, and $, and I would rather have saved all of them for places where I had a chance.

I guess my point is that while connections can push you over the edge, when your connections are tenuous, and you are otherwise a long shot, you might want to consider the full picture of what they can bring you. Most "connections" don't have the desire and/or ability to pull strings hard enough to get you admitted, but do you really want connections to get a "courtesy interview" or 2ndary (fee) from a school that would otherwise not have granted it to you?

Even my father in law didn't think he couldn't pull enough strings to guarantee my acceptance to his school (I didn't apply b/c of the conflict of interest), b/c of the structures built-in to prevent such nepotism--and he's the dean of admissions. Decades of nepotistic admissions created some pretty crappy physicians who got through with "gentlemen's C's," so there are a lot more checks & balances to prevent that now.