How much does a masters help?

[dradams]

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My background from another post:

I'm 32 years old (almost 33) and have been a high school AP Biology teacher and an adjunct instructor in Biology at a nearby community college for the past 5 years. I have two undergrad degrees, the first in Business from the University of Florida (not a very good GPA) and the second in Biology from Florida Atlantic University (graduated with Honors). I also have a Masters in Biology from Columbia University.

Overall undergrad GPA 3.0
Science GPA 3.84
Graduate GPA 3.0
Extensive research experience and teaching experience.

I'm planning on taking the MCAT in April and applying for the 2005 entering class.

My next question. How much does a masters degree, and the reputation of the school it comes from, help getting into med school? I'm hoping that the reputation of Columbia will help a lot.

What does everyone think?

Thanks.

 

[meanderson]

Having a masters degree helps to some extent with some schools, but in your case I'd actually say it hurts you. Yes, Columbia is a good school and have no idea how the curve is set for grad classes there.......but a 3.0 in grad school?? That's one of the lowest grad gpa's I've ever seen

 

[pathdr2b]

I have to concur with the previous poster, having a 3.0 Grad GPA is going to very hard to overcome. The average GPA for graduate students is 3.7 and for those applying to medical school, 3.8. Also, there's the general attitude of adcoms that graduate grades are "inflated. But as a fellow Gator alum, I wish you all the best.

 

[dradams]

Which grad schools have you looked at? A program in molecular and cellular biology at an Ivy League school is surely not typical of most.

 

[pathdr2b]

Originally posted by dradams
Which grad schools have you looked at? A program in molecular and cellular biology at an Ivy League school is surely not typical of most.

I understand what you're trying to say but try not to get too defensive. I am in essentially the same boat as you with a low GPA from UF and an MS degree (In Chemistry from UNC-Chapel Hill which was ranked in the top 5 of chemistry programs when I finished).

When I ran my info by the folks a Hopkins a few years ago they couldn't have cared less about my grad GPA, what I got my MS in, or what school I went to. Other schools like Harvard and UPenn did notice. So it depends. However, because your grad GPA is I'm sure less than others in your Ivy league program, adcoms will take notice as well they should. A 3.0 is barely getting by in graduate school because as you know, a "B" is the lowest passing grade. I think if I were in your situation, I would do a post-bacc with a med school curriculum to prove I could handle the work. I'm sure this is not what you want to here, but I think a 4.0 grad GPA from Pudunk U would serve you better in the admissions game than a 3.0 grad GPA from Harvard. Now if you had extenuating circumstances during your graduate program that's a different story although I think it will still be a strep mountain to climb. Not impossible, but steep.

 

[dradams]

I appreciate the honest advice. Didn't mean to sound too defensive.

 

[pathdr2b]

Originally posted by dradams
I appreciate the honest advice. Didn't mean to sound too defensive.

No problem. I noticed that the response to this question was very different in the DO forum. Overall, I think DO schools tend to: 1) Favor nontraditional applicants and 2) Forgive past academic "mistakes" more than MD programs. As a matter of fact, I had a ton of success shopping around my credentials at DO schools but decided to focus on MD only progarms family reasons (There are no DO schools in the area where I live). At any rate, good luck with whatever you decide to do!

 

[dradams]

Thanks. I think you are definitely right about the DO schools.

 

[exmike]

Several schools list average graduate GPA. It ranges from 3.7-3.8. I cant remember off the top of my head which schools they were though, so 3.8 sounds about right. I had a 3.7 in a MPH program, and it has DEFINITELY help me in getting in med school.

 

[pathdr2b]

Originally posted by exmike
Several schools list average graduate GPA. It ranges from 3.7-3.8. I cant remember off the top of my head which schools they were though, so 3.8 sounds about right. I had a 3.7 in a MPH program, and it has DEFINITELY help me in getting in med school.

Thanks Exmike and congratulations!!! ! I got the info from AMCAS but I don't remember if it was something I read or if they gave it too me by phone.

 

[pathdr2b]

Originally posted by Alleria
I was under the impression that so few applied with an MS or above degree that no one bothered to compile statistics.
Thanks.

This is why I so strenously encourage folks to go this route. (see my thread about getting an MS degreee if not admitted). Invariably, acdcoms "group" students together so why not be a part of a smaller "group" ,is what I always say.

 

[svalenzuela02p]

I don't think a grad degree makes a lick of difference. The Adcom Committe still looks at your undergrad grades with evil eyes and well if I had spent the last two years getting a super high mcat my chances might have been better at getting into med school. For instance, Univ of Miami rejected me from a secondary based on my undergrad grades (3.2). However, my grad school grades are very high!


My advice.

1) work your hardest to get a 30+ mcat
2) If you don't do that well, go DO and don't waste your time. After two years. I might end up going DO becuase of the MCAT. Looking back I just feel like two years went down the drain. I could have been going into my third year of DO or Off Shore med school. That is something to seriously consider. I have also talked with other grad school students who ended up in my same boat. They also wish they never wasted the time trying to go MD.

 

[exmike]

I beg to differ. Maybe my low ugrad gpa was attenuated by my high MCAT, but let me paraphrase the adcom member that interviewed me at a school I was accepted at:

"let see, you didnt do too well in undergrad, raised your grades at the end. You did great at public health school. I dont see any reason why your poor undergrad grades will affect your admissions to this school, your graduate school grades show that you can obviously do the work"

They can matter. They might not, but they can.

Bottom line is that it really depends on the school. It would be hard to find out which schools weight grad heavily or not at all. That would be interesting to know.

Originally posted by svalenzuela02p
I don't think a grad degree makes a lick of difference. The Adcom Committe still looks at your undergrad grades with evil eyes and well if I had spent the last two years getting a super high mcat my chances might have been better at getting into med school. For instance, Univ of Miami rejected me from a secondary based on my undergrad grades (3.2). However, my grad school grades are very high!


My advice.

1) work your hardest to get a 30+ mcat
2) If you don't do that well, go DO and don't waste your time. After two years. I might end up going DO becuase of the MCAT. Looking back I just feel like two years went down the drain. I could have been going into my third year of DO or Off Shore med school. That is something to seriously consider. I have also talked with other grad school students who ended up in my same boat. They also wish they never wasted the time trying to go MD.

 

[Megalofyia]

Originally posted by svalenzuela02p
I don't think a grad degree makes a lick of difference. The Adcom Committe still looks at your undergrad grades with evil eyes and well if I had spent the last two years getting a super high mcat my chances might have been better at getting into med school. For instance, Univ of Miami rejected me from a secondary based on my undergrad grades (3.2). However, my grad school grades are very high!


My advice.

1) work your hardest to get a 30+ mcat
2) If you don't do that well, go DO and don't waste your time. After two years. I might end up going DO becuase of the MCAT. Looking back I just feel like two years went down the drain. I could have been going into my third year of DO or Off Shore med school. That is something to seriously consider. I have also talked with other grad school students who ended up in my same boat. They also wish they never wasted the time trying to go MD.

I feel the same about my masters. I made a high GPA in my masters and it really seems to have had minimal difference to the schools. They look first at undergrad grades.

I'm sure Trauma_junky would be willing to back this up too.

 

[pathdr2b]

Originally posted by Megalofyia
I made a high GPA in my masters and it really seems to have had minimal difference to the schools.

Just curious, what did you get your Master's in? Epidemiology, Molecular Biology and Chemistry appear to be highly valued. I also tend to think that where you went to school makes a difference as well. Finally, I took classes with medical students in graduate school and although it wasn't required, I knew it would help me prove that I could handle a medical school curriculum. I also took more courses than was required for the degree.

As has been stated, MS degrees are NOT a sure thing and you have to be very smart about how you plan your MS program. You can't just go to grad school thinking everything is going to fall into place because you have an MS degree. It's also a must to apply to schools in ALL 3 tiers.

 

[exmike]

Path got it right.

Your masters has to be geared towards your career path. If you have a low ugrad GPA, a 4.0 from a MBA program isnt going to help your cause much. If you have a marginal GPA, but a 4.0 and publications in a MS in biomedical engineering, I'd think that you'd have a good chance at MD/PhD programs.

I spun my MPH to tell the med schools why I was interested in primary care, and it makes perfect sense. and it worked for me.

Like path said, if you want to use a master to boost your med school chances, you have to plan it well and plan it right.

 

[Megalofyia]

I did EXACTLY what a medical school told me to do. I went to the grad school that was suggested to me and majored in what was suggested.

There weren't any opportunities for me to be able to take classes with medical students. I looked into this.

 

[pathdr2b]

Originally posted by Megalofyia
I did EXACTLY what a medical school told me to do.

I hope the MS you earned was at the same school as the meidcal advice you got. Otherwise, it would likely be a moot point depending of course on oterh factors.

You could also pursue a postbacc program that WILL allow you to take med school classes. I know this sounds like a lot to do, but if you really want the MD, you do what you have to do.

PS- I also did a post bacc, pre-Master's degree

 

[shawred]

I am an applicant with a miserable 3.09 gpa as an undergrad. I opted to get a masters degree in gerontology. I also took upper level undergraduate science courses postbacc to show that i could handle the work. So far my interviewers have been very impressed with the gerontology degree. My advice for masters students is to select a program outside of the usual sciences (geriatrics is a very underserved sub-specialty in medicine). Moreover, many students opt for a degree in public health. Be creative and different.

GPA:3.09
MCAT:35N

 

[Megalofyia]

Originally posted by pathdr2b
I hope the MS you earned was at the same school as the meidcal advice you got. Otherwise, it would likely be a moot point depending of course on oterh factors.

You could also pursue a postbacc program that WILL allow you to take med school classes. I know this sounds like a lot to do, but if you really want the MD, you do what you have to do.

PS- I also did a post bacc, pre-Master's degree

Yeah at this point I don't plan on doing a post bacc. The school I did the master is associated with the medical school that had been my first choice and they share classes, but this medical school will not let anyone other than medical students take medical school classes...
I do wish that this medical school had not made doing a post bacc not seem like a good idea.

I applied this year to a larger variety of school and have had much more luck.

I am also of the feeling that if I dont get in somewhere this year I'm going to finish getting a degree in EE. (something I've already started and enjoy)

 

[Jet915]

I think a Master's degree helps. Especially if you are a borderline candidate, having the extra graduate experience can put you over the top. Especially if the degree involved a thesis and publications. It also gives you something to talk about during the interviews. Almost all the schools I interviewed at specifically asked me about my master's so it must have been somewhat important to them.

Jetson