How much does going to a good undergrad count?

[chips]

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thank you, SMW.

Originally posted by TheSkywalker
I contend, ?what it takes? to get into an undergrad like Harvard has more to do with how much money your parents have than natural talent. (Honestly, I think most people who grew up with my background would have a hard time not gaining admission to a prestigious university)

if i didn't read on after that initial statement (which i still take slight offense to, by the way), i would have thought you were accusing ivy-league parents of bribery. even as such, your argument is far from the truth. i have neither money nor background, and most importantly, i have every reason to believe i'm in the majority (i worked in the financial aid office). and just so you know, i'm the first in a few generations to have gone to college at all. so please refrain from implying that i didn't get in on my own merit.

and while i'm an advocate for the idea that good grades are good grades regardless of the undergrad, will everyone stop assuming that just because one attends a good university that one is guaranteed to graduate with honors or get straight As! this is not true! i was a bio major at princeton and all our classes were curved around a C+/B-. and yes, people failed!

having said that, i don't really think med school consider undergrad prestige to be as important as many think. Tragan, i think you were the one who told the story about Dartmouth rep. this is pretty much what i've heard from our premed advisor. your undergrad will get you a secondary, and possibly an interview at the lower tier schools, but if you don't have good stats/qualifications to back them up, it doesn't mean anything.

 

[Random Access]

Originally posted by chips
if i didn't read on after that initial statement (which i still take slight offense to, by the way), i would have thought you were implicating ivy-league parents with bribery. even as such, your argument is far from the truth. i have neither money nor background, and most importantly, i have every reason to believe i'm in the majority (i worked in the financial aid office). and just so you know, i'm the first in a few generations to have gone to college at all. so please refrain from implying that i didn't get in on my own merit.

and while i'm an advocate for the idea that good grades are good grades regardless of the undergrad, will everyone stop assuming that just because one attends a good university that one is guaranteed to graduate with honors or get straight As! this is not true! i was a bio major at princeton and all our classes were curved around a C+/B-. and yes, people failed!

I also whole-heartedly disagree with Gibbson's gross overgeneralization (have no money, sure as hell no background). Sure it helps to have cash, but that's not a given by any means. It's true that money gives you privileges such that Gibbson mentioned, but that's not the only way to get into an Ivy League school.

I would say that there is more grade inflation in many humanities classes, but maybe not as much in science class than the rest. The one exception would be Freshman Orgo, where the average is a B+ just shy of an A-. Of course, I didn't do anywhere close to that average. 😉 In other science classes, you're going to have to work pretty seriously for that B+.

-RA

 

[MedApp2003]

(1) 91% graduated with honors. fine. that's true and annoying, but they just changed the policy this year. also, this is NOT because grades were so high but because the cut-off for honors was too low. anyone with over like a b average got it. also the honors was just general honors. it is still very hard to get honors in your field or magna or summa. in fact, only 5% of the class graduates summa.

(2) Grade inflation is NOT particularly rampant in science classes. yes, it is fairly hard to get C's but it is also fairly hard to get an A. there are just a lot of people getting in the B range. an A in a harvard science class is still very impressive. especially considering the exceptional company.

(3) Harvards kids do very well on the MCAT. in fact, i still don't believe that only like 180 or so people get a 40+ each administration. if that is true, then seriously like 20% of them are at harvard. there are lots of students with 40+ at harvard. what this says to me is that harvard pre meds are fairly smart.

 

[clittle1981]

OK, let me just say that everyone seems to have something to complain about on this thread. Unless you went to a community college all the way and did not take steps to complete a BS at an accredited school I don't see why you shouldn't apply. And no, you don't have to be a URM with super stats like the famous Jessica. I go to a large top 50 school that is known as a bit of a laid-back party school, and so far I have been invited on 14 interviews. granted, I am an NJ resident, not CA, and this is my second time applying. The problem was that I took the August MCAT (was studying abroad in Mexico during the April administration) last time and only applied to 5 schools, and didn't get my first interview until February. I don't think that my undergrad has hurt me at all, and I am very comfortable with my 3.73, 31 (good, but not fantastic stats). I was able to have great experiences in undergrad b/c I took advantage of everything that was available to me (jobs, grants, loans, scholarships, you name it) on campus during my 4 years here and worked hard and partied hard. Although my father is a physician in another state, he is an internist and never brought home huge amounts of money. While I know that there may be grade deflation at some undergrad schools and some people may come out of backgrounds that are very hard to overcome; I believe that you have to take advantage of what IS available to you and make the most of it. Complaining about grade deflation or the lousy reputation of your state school (BTW, what the hell is wrong with ASU; my cousin goes there and says they send huge #'s of people to UA for med school every year?) does not get you anywhere. I whined and complained that I didn't get in anywhere last year before I decided to suck it up and reapply to 26 schools b/c medicine was what I really wanted. It was not the reputation of Lehigh U that kept me out the first time, but the fact that I wasn't on top of the application process. Hopefully some good news will come my way Tuesday from the Jersey schools or GW (UMN, Rochester, Penn State, and Iowa will not decide on my app til later); we'll see🙂 I will be happy to attend any US allopathic school, believe me. take care,
erin

 

[SMW]

Originally posted by clittle1981
And no, you don't have to be a URM with super stats like the famous Jessica.

Uh, where did you get the idea that Jessica was URM? 😕

 

[DW]

chips,

Is this your first SERIOUS post in your brief SDN career? Good work man, although I'm used to your normally hysterical posts 🙂

ok, the two overriding themes of this discussion

1. although you might be at a slight disadvantage, going to a noname school does NOT preclude you from getting into med school and being competitve at a variety of schools if you are a stellar applicant

2. as evidenced by communication with pre med advisors, visits from med school reps, and documents such as the infamous "stanford memo", some schools with give you some consideration for the undergrad you went to, but it most likely wont be the trump card in your application

Originally posted by chips
thank you, SMW.



if i didn't read on after that initial statement (which i still take slight offense to, by the way), i would have thought you were implicating ivy-league parents with bribery. even as such, your argument is far from the truth. i have neither money nor background, and most importantly, i have every reason to believe i'm in the majority (i worked in the financial aid office). and just so you know, i'm the first in a few generations to have gone to college at all. so please refrain from implying that i didn't get in on my own merit.

and while i'm an advocate for the idea that good grades are good grades regardless of the undergrad, will everyone stop assuming that just because one attends a good university that one is guaranteed to graduate with honors or get straight As! this is not true! i was a bio major at princeton and all our classes were curved around a C+/B-. and yes, people failed!

having said that, i don't really think med school consider undergrad prestige to be as important as many think. Tragan, i think you were the one who told the story about Dartmouth rep. this is pretty much what i've heard from our premed advisor. your undergrad will get you a secondary, and possibly an interview at the lower tier schools, but if you don't have good stats/qualifications to back them up, it doesn't mean anything.

 

[poloace]

i would like to add my two pennies-
i went to a very solid undergrad at a small liberal arts school in southern cali. before i got in, i had taken a few classes at a community college (eg- intro to physics). now, looking at my amcas, that intro to physics course is weighted just as heavily as my classes from my undergrad which were extrememly more rigorous... and it makes me wonder... i could have gone to an easier school and left with a 4.0- no doubt in my mind. but, instead- i sacked up and went to an undergrad where i no longer felt like the 'bright' one... so, i'd like to think that my gpa will be looked at as competitive- although if i told you what it was, most of you here would scoff.... SDN as*holes.

what i was told from a dean of admissions was that a 3.0 from this small liberal arts school would be more competitive than a 3.5 from UC Santa Cruz (he really had fun picking on them) - his rationale was that there were more people in my class capable of offsetting my curves and that the caliber of my fellow colleagues was similar to a medical school environment.

honestly though- if i could do it again... i would have worked sooo much harder my first two years and discovered the library much sooner. good luck to all... and don't let these SDN ***** get you down.-

p

 

[poloace]

erin-
i agree with you.... if you want to get in, do something about it- don't rely on people on this board to get you in. sack up and get your shiz together-
p

 

[poloace]

my question is how much adcoms look at trends in GPA- anyone have an idea?
p

 

[Philism]

Adcoms take GPA trends into a consideration: meaning that those who struggle in their first year, or for a semester, or whatever, still may have a fighting chance. A lot of the SDN people will tell you that having a rough first year and recovering from it by pulling all Bs and/or As will actually show how much you really have improved - that you are the kind of people who will not give up. I haven't been through the process so I can't personally say whether this is true or not, but medical school is open to any who want it.

But what it boils down to is how badly you want it. I recommend picking up the book Becomming a Physician or checking it out from a local library. Podunk U won't be looked upon the same way as the top undergrads (obviously), but it doesn't mean you are at a total disadvantage. Remember that there are sections on that application other than school(s) attended, GPA, and MCAT.

I'm in a similiar situation as I will most likely have to take most of my req. classes at a community college so I can transfer to a better school. I don't know if you have the option of transfering to a better school, but being disadvantaged because of geography shouldn't put you out of the race already.

 

[chips]

Originally posted by DW
chips,

Is this your first SERIOUS post in your brief SDN career? Good work man, although I'm used to your normally hysterical posts 🙂

thanks. but just between you and me i had to get my sister (she's in first grade and uses exam crackers) to write most of it for me. i couldn't spell alot of the hard words.

 

[poloace]

dude- is your sister THAT smart??? i bet she gets into med school before i do -
p