How much does having a great PS help?

[Revolver1045]

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Hey guys,

Every one talks about the value of the PS, and I was just curious about how much a great personal statement actually helps. I understand that some schools may not even get to your PS given your stats compared to the "acceptable" stats at that particular school. That being said, say an applicant has good enough (not great) stats (solely GPA and MCAT) for the given school that they are applying to so that they are not screened out. At that point how much will their personal statement actually help them if they wrote a great PS? Also, compared to an applicant with exceptional stats and a so-so PS does the person with the great PS stand a chance?

I know a great PS can be written in a number of different ways, and I'm not trying to start a thread on what goes into a great PS.

 

[Thego2guy]

Hey guys,

Every one talks about the value of the PS, and I was just curious about how much a great personal statement actually helps. I understand that some schools may not even get to your PS given your stats compared to the "acceptable" stats at that particular school. That being said, say an applicant has good enough (not great) stats (solely GPA and MCAT) for the given school that they are applying to so that they are not screened out. At that point how much will their personal statement actually help them if they wrote a great PS? Also, compared to an applicant with exceptional stats and a so-so PS does the person with the great PS stand a chance?

I know a great PS can be written in a number of different ways, and I'm not trying to start a thread on what goes into a great PS.

It can make or break an applicant. Many schools really do look at the whole picture, and PS weighs a lot. They want to see that you have a genuine passion for medicine and that you are fit for their school. Don't ever underestimate the power of the PS.

Many applicants get screened out, but those who won't, get looked at from head to toe.

 

[EBTrailRunner]

I think a great PS can be the difference between having your application passed over and receiving an interview invite.

 

[NightGod]

It can make or break an applicant. Many schools really do look at the whole picture, and PS weighs a lot. They want to see that you have a genuine passion for medicine and that you are fit for their school. Don't ever underestimate the power of the PS.

Many applicants get screened out, but those who won't, get looked at from head to toe.

This. A great PS isn't going to save you from the automatic reject pile if your stats suck, but if you make it through that initial screening, it can be invaluable.

 

[LostInPreMed]

I think a great PS can be the difference between having your application passed over and receiving an interview invite.

I certainly agree with this 100%! An PS is one of the few chances an applicant has to make themselves stand out and show WHO they actually are. You still have to prove that you belong there and prove that you deserve for a person to read your PS, but if you can show yourself to be an endearing applicant that the reader just CAN'T pass up, you are gonna be in great shape!


Onwards!

 

[DOCTAfoHIRE]

Threads like this always make me think about how important secondaries are in comparison. What if an applicant has an average PS but amazing secondaries? Or vice versa? It seems like at a certain point there has to be aspects of the application that are not as important as SDN makes them seem. Because if everything is really that important how they hell do they truly do a full evaluation of 5-10k applicants? Either certain aspects get skimmed over or they just have a ton of people putting in a lot of time. And if its the latter than Im a bit concerned that there may be people looking at my application who really shouldnt be looking at my application. But since there is no way of knowing I guess trying your best in everything is the only option

 

[RedSox10]

Threads like this always make me think about how important secondaries are in comparison. What if an applicant has an average PS but amazing secondaries? Or vice versa? It seems like at a certain point there has to be aspects of the application that are not as important as SDN makes them seem. Because if everything is really that important how they hell do they truly do a full evaluation of 5-10k applicants? Either certain aspects get skimmed over or they just have a ton of people putting in a lot of time. And if its the latter than Im a bit concerned that there may be people looking at my application who really shouldnt be looking at my application. But since there is no way of knowing I guess trying your best in everything is the only option

My guess is that first there is an initial skim so they dont ever have to look at all 5-10K applications in full.

 

[Barcu]

It can make or break an applicant. .

Meh. It can certainly break you, but I don't think it could make you.

It's a writing piece, so everyone will react differently to it, so while some like it, some may not.

More importantly, however, is that a good PS comes from a variety of experiences and an understanding of what a physician does and why you want to be one. Because of this, I would argue it's really the ECs that elevate a good PS more than the PS being good itself. Though some people are great story-tellers, and it could really help you in this case.

Certainly spend time on it and make it as good as you can. It is an important part of the app. But I think it is a piece that could hurt you much more than it can help you.

 

[NickNaylor]

I will disagree with most everyone and say that the PS is a relatively unimportant part of your application. Yes, you should take it seriously, but I don't agree that it can make or break you. Keep in mind that (as Barcu said) it's a writing piece: it's highly subjective, and it may not even be your work. It can provide some useful information, but if you're a weak applicant it almost certainly won't save you from a rejection. On the other hand, if you're a strong applicant and write a terrible PS, I think it can absolutely get you rejected even though you otherwise wouldn't have been with a mediocre PS.

In other words, the PS can't do much to help you (for 99% of applicants) but it can absolutely destroy you if done horribly.

 

[SnowyRox]

It can provide fodder for interviews. Totally depends on the school's style, but if it's an open-file interview then they may use bits of your PS to spark conversation. It's designed to give the adcom an insight into who you are as a person and why you want to pursue medicine. If someone has few clinical hours but they made a huge impact and she spun the inspiration into a great PS, then that can help. Conversely, if you have 1000s of hours of clinical experience and yet can't write a convincing reason why you should be a doctor, then it can hurt you.

It's the "touchy-feely" part of the application. You want to come across as a great person, honest and unique.

 

[Revolver1045]

Are there any adcom members or medical students that review applications that have an opinion on this?

 

[TheGloaming]

This thread I created last year may be of help: http://forums.sdn.net/showthread.php?t=798616

 

[theseeker4]

Are there any adcom members or medical students that review applications that have an opinion on this?

Nick Naylor already did ^^ and he fits that description.

 

[killinsound]

I agree with Nick Naylor. I used to sit on Adcom at my school and a great PS won't do much for you unless you have the ECs and grades to back it up. A terrible PS can sink you. Same thing goes for residency IVs. Hell, some programs didn't even read my personal statements. They are just another hoop you have to jump through to prove you can write adequately.

I also find it humorous that all pre-meds think it's top 5 in things adcom check for, but almost one of the lasts from a medical students' perspective.

 

[drizzt3117]

I think PS are not very important for run of the mill premeds. They're value for people with a compelling personal narrative. One of my friends had a former child soldier from Liberia in their class; I think that'd be an interesting PS to read.

Then again, there's always:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=285834

 

[NickNaylor]

Are there any adcom members or medical students that review applications that have an opinion on this?

I review applications and interview applicants. Very, very seldom does the PS actually produce anything useful that I would want to ask an applicant about. They are extremely formulaic, and despite what you might think/wish, your PS sounds pretty much exactly like the PS I read 10 minutes beforehand. They really do read like a Mad Lib:

1. Dramatic story in third-world country/childhood illness/clinical vignette

2. Reason #1 for interest in medicine with one or two activities supporting it

3. Reason #2

4. Reason #3

5. Return to anecdote in #1 with a fantastic zinger of a last sentence

 

[NickNaylor]

For instance: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=285834

Do you have any tips to catch your attention? Would a personal statement with a less formulaic structure catch your attention, or is it a lost cause? LizzyM has mentioned some personal statements that have really stuck with her, but they tend to be those that detail great personal struggle in the face of insurmountable odds. Is there any way to make an applicant with average stats stand out with the personal statement, without having gone through hell and back to have the experiences to fill it with?

Yes, an atypical structure or unusual/interesting content would be attention-grabbing. Unfortunately for applicants, there are two problems with this approach. First, most people likely haven't had experiences that would be truly interesting (and, by the way, that's ok). Not everyone has been through "hell and back," as you say. The second problem is that most people aren't effective enough writers to successfully pull off an unusual structure and/or writing style. The execution will likely be terrible and you'll end up worse off than if you had simply stuck with a formulaic PS.

For 99% of applicants, a well-executed but bland and boring PS is the goal (remember, a PS will almost certainly not help you but has the potential to completely sink you). You run a huge risk by trying to do something usual, and it will almost certainly fail. Keep in mind that this is just one opinion - it's your application and you should do what you think is most effective. I'm sure there are other people that will have opinions that differ from my own. Just make sure they have real experience reading statements OR have succeeded with an atypical PS. If you're in the 1% of applicants that have had some truly unusual experiences and/or are an especially adept writer, then you might be able to do something cool and interesting. Remember, though, that despite what you might think, you probably aren't that person. If you want to try it, have many, many people "in the know" read over your PS and get candid feedback.

 

[Revolver1045]

Thanks for the input Nick and everyone else. I appreciate it.

Changing gears a bit here. If the PS is mostly just another hoop to jump through and can mostly hinder instead of help, then how are LOR viewed. Are they more important than the PS? Or are they like the PS in that if you have good ones then good for you, but if you have bad ones/average ones you're sunk?

 

[NickNaylor]

Thanks for the good advice. I started reading and began thinking "Oh, I'm the kind of person that could pull this off" until I read "despite what you might think, you probably aren't that person." 😛 I'll have to shop my statement around with a few qualified readers to determine whether I really am that kind of person. I've got a few good ideas, but I don't want to become the example I provided above.

Well, you may very well be. I add that in because everyone thinks they're good at everything, but in reality they aren't. Again, if you want to go the more creative/unusual route that's fine, but make sure your PS is reviewed several times by people that know what a PS is supposed to be, you trust, and will give you candid, non-sugar-coated advice.

 

[theseeker4]

Thanks for the input Nick and everyone else. I appreciate it.

Changing gears a bit here. If the PS is mostly just another hoop to jump through and can mostly hinder instead of help, then how are LOR viewed. Are they more important than the PS? Or are they like the PS in that if you have good ones then good for you, but if you have bad ones/average ones you're sunk?

Basically. Some applicants have a very meaningful relationship with a professor with whom they have been involved in something extraordinary that the professor then writes about as a reason the person would make a good doctor. The majority of applicants have the standard "so and so is a great student and would make a great doctor based on my having them as a student in one or more of my classes" LOR. A LOR that is luke-warm is toxic, as the default position of LORs is describing how wonderful of a person the applicant is.

 

[LizzyM]

The PS should tell me something about you and why you want to be a doctor and how you've tested this initial interest in doctoring and how you came to know that it is the right choice for you. It should make me say, " I'd like to meet this person and have a conversation."

Keep in mind that there are three things we want to know:

Do you have the academic talent, time management skills and work ethic to do well in medical school and rise to the challenge of life long learning as a physician?

Do you have a passion for the care of patients and the practice of medicine?

Is your personalilty such that we could not only stand having you around for 4 years but would be delighted to have you here?

 

[TheShaker]

I review applications and interview applicants. Very, very seldom does the PS actually produce anything useful that I would want to ask an applicant about. They are extremely formulaic, and despite what you might think/wish, your PS sounds pretty much exactly like the PS I read 10 minutes beforehand. They really do read like a Mad Lib:

1. Dramatic story in third-world country/childhood illness/clinical vignette

2. Reason #1 for interest in medicine with one or two activities supporting it

3. Reason #2

4. Reason #3

5. Return to anecdote in #1 with a fantastic zinger of a last sentence

Oh god, you're looking into my soul!

 

[JFK90787]

Is it wrong to mention research/advocacy/etc as significant reasons for wanting to be a physician? Or should the PS focus almost 100% on patient care? I ask because in my PS's current form I dedicate a paragraph talking about research. I mention bench to bedside to give it some clinical significance, but is it seen as a bad thing to spend a paragraph on research in an MD only essay? I've been working as a research assistant for 2 years and it's something I have enjoyed, so I felt it would be kind of weird to not mention it. I spent the rest of the essay talking about clinical things. 5 paragraphs total.

 

[NickNaylor]

Is it wrong to mention research/advocacy/etc as significant reasons for wanting to be a physician? Or should the PS focus almost 100% on patient care? I ask because in my PS's current form I dedicate a paragraph talking about research. I mention bench to bedside to give it some clinical significance, but is it seen as a bad thing to spend a paragraph on research in an MD only essay? I've been working as a research assistant for 2 years and it's something I have enjoyed, so I felt it would be kind of weird to not mention it. I spent the rest of the essay talking about clinical things. 5 paragraphs total.

No, but keep in mind that (most) medical schools want to train practicing physicians. Unless you're applying MSTP, that should be your stated goal, at least nominally, and your other interests should be directly related to that goal.

It's perfectly fine to mention an interest in research, advocacy, etc., but those interests should be backed up by experiences during undergrad and, in most cases, secondary to patient care. You shouldn't mention out of the blue that you want to be involved in ____ activity without having done it thus far. You'll have no credibility.

 

[galaxyx]

I've read some conflicting information that maybe some of you that read PS's frequently could comment on.
Some say your PS should answer "Why Medicine?" and "What skills do I have that would make me good at medicine?" While others say that you shouldn't include a "I would make a good doctor because..." because you're not a doctor and don't know what makes a good one. Obviously using those exact words would be silly, but is it ok to make a large section of your PS be about the skills in leadership/teamwork/education you have developed since these are directly related to how you will perform as a physician?

 

[LizzyM]

I've read some conflicting information that maybe some of you that read PS's frequently could comment on.
Some say your PS should answer "Why Medicine?" and "What skills do I have that would make me good at medicine?" While others say that you shouldn't include a "I would make a good doctor because..." because you're not a doctor and don't know what makes a good one. Obviously using those exact words would be silly, but is it ok to make a large section of your PS be about the skills in leadership/teamwork/education you have developed since these are directly related to how you will perform as a physician?

This one can work if you set it up as something like, "my friends say that you can describe me with one letter: C. Not for my grades, but for my curiosity, compassion and ...." Then go on to give examples of how you have demonstrated each of these characteristics and why you are choosing to bring these characteristics to a career in medicine.

 

[NickNaylor]

I've read some conflicting information that maybe some of you that read PS's frequently could comment on.
Some say your PS should answer "Why Medicine?" and "What skills do I have that would make me good at medicine?" While others say that you shouldn't include a "I would make a good doctor because..." because you're not a doctor and don't know what makes a good one. Obviously using those exact words would be silly, but is it ok to make a large section of your PS be about the skills in leadership/teamwork/education you have developed since these are directly related to how you will perform as a physician?

Just be careful about not dictating what being a physician entails/requires as you will probably come across as arrogant. I agree with Lizzy in that you could describe personal attributes that you think would be useful as a physician, but I would avoid justifying those attributes with a statement like "these are the attributes that make a good physician." Unless you have some pretty extraordinary experiences in your past, you're not in a position to tell the committee (which likely contains a fair share of physicians) what does and does not make a good physician. In other words, let those reading your PS make that connection.

 

[galaxyx]

This one can work if you set it up as something like, "my friends say that you can describe me with one letter: C. Not for my grades, but for my curiosity, compassion and ...." Then go on to give examples of how you have demonstrated each of these characteristics and why you are choosing to bring these characteristics to a career in medicine.

I wonder how many PS's are going to start with that line this year...

 

[tenndoc]

several of my interviewers said that it was memorable and really helped them connect with me and who i was. if you can do that, then great. if not, i think that having even an average one suffices. a poor one will haunt you

 

[tenndoc]

i do actually lol. there are some things in there that i do not wish to share. pm me and ill give you a basic layout when i have the time

 

[Shmemifly]

I'm fairly sure my PS bumped up my interviews a solid tier from what my numbers predicted... but come acceptance time my list of offers followed the numbers just like everyone else's. It is, in my experience, a foot in the door or a foot out of the door, but little more.