How much does it really cost?

[Miniwheat]

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So I have the choice of going to University of Washington in-state, or to Wake Forest. I got really lucky and still have no idea how I pulled this off.
I'm equally impressed with both schools and they both have strong draw points. I decided that since I could not find a good reason to choose one over the other, I would pick the cheaper option
I thought this would be a no brainer, look at the total average debt and pick the lowest (naturally the IS option), but when I started looking more closely I realized the numbers the schools provide to applicants and U.S news are questionable at best.
For example, how is it possible that the cost of living in Western North Carolina is higher than the cost of living in a notoriously expensive city like Seattle?
If these numbers are doctored (not trying to be funny) whose to say the total debts are not also fudged a little.
Is there a good way to evaluate this stuff without actually doing the financial aid dance with both schools?
I really don't want to keep two seats for myself if I can help it because up until last week I was a nervous wreck and would hate to cause anyone else that kind of strife.
Any advice would be appreciated. I need to decide soon if I'm going to decline one offer.😕

 

[hp540]

Hold on to the seat until the last minute and stop worrying about 'opening up a slot for someone else'. You earned both of them so take the time and think it through (esp when fin.aid comes through later.)

 

[LadyWolverine]

I personally will kick you if you don't go to U Dub. I would have killed for an acceptance there a few years ago. What do you mean, "a notoriously expensive city like Seattle?" Are you crazy? Seattle is one of the few affordable cities left in the country. It's like an undiscovered gem. I only lived there for 3 years, yet I miss it more than anything. Alki in the summer, Crystal/Baker/Whistler in the winter. I'm sure the cost of living in North Carolina seems amazing, but have you ever been to WNC? There's nothing to do there! Outside of Asheville, you couldn't get me to move anywhere in NC.

Good luck to you. I'm sure you'll hear lots of differing opinions on this. Keep in mind - mine is the only one that counts. Stick with U Dub, you can't go wrong.

 

[Miniwheat]

Appreciate the input.
Just checking out craigslist it seems you pay about 400 bucks for a place in WNC and more than a thousand for anything near the U. Since I'm borrowing this money and adding interest and such, doesn't that make a huge difference?
Where are you going to school BTW?

 

[Miniwheat]

I live in Seattle right now and I do love it. I'm just getting really freaked out about how to pay for stuff once I quit my job.

 

[AlexMorph]

If you can't decide without first looking at money, just wait for that fin. aid packet. Don't make a hasty decision you might regret.

And I'm thinking LadyWolverine goes to Maryland, but that's just a random guess...

 

[Miniwheat]

So when does that generally happen?

 

[0Complications]

If you can't decide without first looking at money, just wait for that fin. aid packet. Don't make a hasty decision you might regret.

And I'm thinking LadyWolverine goes to Maryland, but that's just a random guess...

👍

 

[AlexMorph]

So when does that generally happen?

I've heard springtime. March perhaps? It might also be school dependent. Anyone wanna input his/her opinion?

 

[LadyWolverine]

And I'm thinking LadyWolverine goes to Maryland, but that's just a random guess...

LOL....for god's sake, come on.

And why on earth would you live anywhere near the U? I lived in a huge apartment on Alki Beach for 3 years and paid $600/month when I worked at the U. Try doing that in WNC. Wait, you can't. They don't have beaches there.

For what it's worth, the OP is talking about going to a top-ranking state school (I'm not sure what in-state tuition is these days, but when I was living in Seattle, it was an extremely compelling reason for going there) vs. a private school. Honestly, you're more likely to be paying more in the long run to attend ANY private school (scholarships aside) then you would at UW, even after you factor in cost-of-living. Why is this even a question?

 

[Miniwheat]

Point taken. On some level I'm a little scared of U-dub though and maybe thats why i'm trying to find a reason to go to wake. its kind of hard to explain. my impression on interview day was that everyone was way smarter than me. They would proably have figured out that if I just clicked on someones screen name their profile and where they go to school would come up. way sooner than I did. The interview day was intimidating. Do you know anyone who goes to school there?Are they happy?

 

[AlexMorph]

LOL....for god's sake, come on.

And why on earth would you live anywhere near the U? I lived in a huge apartment on Alki Beach for 3 years and paid $600/month. Try doing that in WNC. Wait, you can't. They don't have beaches there.

For what it's worth, the OP is talking about going to a top-ranking state school (I'm not sure what in-state tuition is these days, but when I was living in Seattle, it was an extremely compelling reason for going there) vs. a private school. Honestly, you're more likely to be paying more in the long run to attend ANY private school (scholarships aside) then you would at UW, even after you factor in cost-of-living. Why is this even a question?

I guess he really is unsure. Chances are he will end up paying less at a state school regardless.

 

[LadyWolverine]

Point taken. On some level I'm a little scared of U-dub though and maybe thats why i'm trying to find a reason to go to wake. its kind of hard to explain. my impression on interview day was that everyone was way smarter than me. They would proably have figured out that if I just clicked on someones screen name their profile and where they go to school would come up. way sooner than I did. The interview day was intimidating. Do you know anyone who goes to school there?Are they happy?

One of my friends from undergrad did attend UW; she ended up doing very well for herself (matched into a competitive specialty and is now over here on the East Coast doing what she loves). Anywhere you go, medical school is full of ridiculously smart people. I opted to go to my state school, and I am constantly humbled by the people around me. Listen - if you got in, then you are "good enough." As I said before, I would have killed to go to UW. I remember how stressful the interview was. My advice is to not look a gift horse in the mouth. Take the state school acceptance. I have nothing against wake, but UW can offer you something that they can't - in-state tuition.
I'm not saying that it won't be difficult. There will be douchebags. There will be people you dislike. There will be gunners. My point is, these people will exist, no matter where you go. Just be comfortable in your own skin, and you will be fine.

 

[Miniwheat]

Good advice. I actually printed it out to keep. Thank you.

 

[Mayday]

You might consider moving somewhere further away from Seattle. The further south you go, the cheaper the rent is. I live in Tacoma and pay $750 for a really nice 2 bedroom apartment with all the amenities in a great neighborhood. If I can manage to get into UW, I plan on taking the sounder up, or light rail if they have it finished by that time. I figure I can get an ipod to listen to music and use the commute time for studying.

Another thing to look at is what specialty you might be interested in, then look at what the residency program for that specialty is like at the hospitals served by both schools. Look at the number of slots they have open, try and find articles about it, or see if you can contact anyone that is currently in the program to see what it is like. I don't know for certain, but I would assume that one would have a "home field advantage" if they spent their med school years where they want to do their residency and can make themselves known to the people in charge of the program before it comes time to apply for residencies.

 

[Miniwheat]

I'm not sure just yet but I'm really interested in CT surgery. My research is almost entirely in this field and I really enjoy it. These residencies are so competitive that i think the odds of matching at first choice are slim to none even though U-dub has a strong program.
So are you suggesting federal way or something like that. Is that commutable with the really long hours at school we can expect?

 

[TexasTriathlete]

I know someone who turned down an acceptance to UT-Southwestern (in-state tuition $6500/year) to go to, I think, Pittsburgh. Or somewhere in the Northeast. At any rate, she has **** for brains for doing that.

This would be similar.

 

[Mayday]

I'm not sure just yet but I'm really interested in CT surgery. My research is almost entirely in this field and I really enjoy it. These residencies are so competitive that i think the odds of matching at first choice are slim to none even though U-dub has a strong program.
So are you suggesting federal way or something like that. Is that commutable with the really long hours at school we can expect?

Depending on the time of day and how I got there (I learned the back ways REALLY well), my commute (driving) to Seattle when I was working there was anywhere between 45 minutes to an hour and a half. That's with traffic. The sounder is an hour no matter how bad the traffic is. If you take the sounder and you plan that time to be study time or breakfast time or time for something else that you need to do anyways then you aren't losing any time to the commute.

I just checked the bus times, taking the bus from the Tacoma dome station to the door of UW takes an hour and a half.

I guess it all depends on if you don't mind some of your study time being somewhere other than at a desk or if you have other tasks that can be done while on the bus. With the wireless cards now available for laptops, you can even have internet access on the bus.

 

[Miniwheat]

yeah that makes sense. Multitasking is an important skill anyway.

So how does the person who went to pitt feel about their decision now?

 

[TexasTriathlete]

You can get a good education anywhere if you work hard, so I'm sure she's doing fine. But there are only a handful of places comparable to ut-southwestern when it comes to rotations, and at that price, its a no-brainer. I haven't talked to her since she left.

 

[Miniwheat]

so what would you look for when you are choosing? I know that this is an enviable position and i'm sure this post is pissing some people off but I really don't know how to make this decision.
in case it matters, I'm really interested in CT surgery which would require a Gen Surg residency first anyway. I'm not closed to the possibility of something else grabbing me but right now this is where I am.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

The point is that U-dub is a great school and you'll get in-state tuition. I don't know what that is, but I have no doubt that its a lot cheaper than Wake.

What you want to go into is irrelevant. You'll use your elective rotations to get face time at facilities where you might want to do residency. As long as you take care of business there, and do well on your boards, then you'll put yourself in a great position to match whatever residency you want. It really doesn't matter where you go to school, as long as you work hard while you're there.

For CT surgery, as you said, you'll need a general surgery residency, and then fellowship. By that time, nobody will care where you went to school, as long as its in the US (and not Rocky Vista).

This really isn't a tough decision. Think of it like this... you've got two girls you have the option of dating. One of them is your hometown sweetheart, cheerleader, all-american girl. She's as hot as anyone, but you see her all the time, so you don't really think of her like that. The other girl is Britney Spears. She looks hot from a distance, and she seems exotic.

If you choose Britney Spears, it won't be long before you regret the decision, because she's really not as hot as she looks on TV, and nowhere near as hot as your hometown girl. But by the time you figure all this out, its too late. You're stuck with Britney, she's your baby's mama, and you've got herpes now too.

 

[Barfalamule]

And she's just run over you with her car.

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

This is a wonderful accomplishment. Way to go.

Tuition and fees at UW for in-staters are $17,425 and tuition and fees at Wake Forest are $39,486 per the AMCAS website. I would estimate that your total budget at UW would be $40,500 which brings you right in at the Stafford maximum of $8,500 subsidized and $32,000 in unsubsidized. I would bet that you’d spend $60,000 at Wake which means that you would borrow $8,500 under the subsidized Stafford, $32,000 in unsubsidized Stafford and $19,500 in Grad Plus per year.

Interest on subsidized Staffords doesn’t accrue until you are done with residency but does accrue at 6.5% upon disbursement on the unsubsidized Staffords. Grad Plus loans are at 8.5% and start accruing upon disbursement.

At the end of a four year residency you would owe $34,000 on the subsidized Stafford and $186,240 on the unsubsidized Stafford (5.82 times annual borrowing) and you would owe this total of $220,240 at UW or Wake. However, you would owe an additional $128,115 in Grad Plus loans (6.57 times annual borrowing) if you went to Wake for a total of $348,355.

I don’t have a dog in this fight because my daughter is not applying this year, so my advice is unbiased. Wake is a fine med school but I would say, “Go Huskies”.

 

[Law2Doc]

I'm not sure just yet but I'm really interested in CT surgery. My research is almost entirely in this field and I really enjoy it. These residencies are so competitive that i think the odds of matching at first choice are slim to none even though U-dub has a strong program.

Well, the consensus of every surgeon who has spoken on the subject at my med school the past few years is that CT surgery is actually a dying specialty, with an average age of surgeons in that field currently in the late 60s and rising, and that if they don't infuse some new young blood fast and soon, and/or figure a way to streamline the training, the entire field will quite literally die off and be snatched up by cardiology and various surgical specialties. So I wouldn't expect it to remain all that competitive down the road -- it is going to be in a rebuilding phase. For a more optimistic view, suggesting the field might learn to adapt, see http://www.aats.org/TSR/Cardiothoracic-Surgeon/The-Future-of-Cardiothoracic-Surgery.html

At any rate I wouldn't use your desired specialty to dictate your choice of school. Most med students will change their mind at least once during the course of med school. Odds are pretty good that you won't be as interested in CT surgery when you get closer to the decision point.

 

[MDRus]

I cannot get past the point that anyone would even consider going to Wake over UW. And you are IS??? Unless Wake gives you crazy financial aid -- like full ride -- there is no choice here.

 

[LizzyM]

With all due respect to "Dad", you can't know the cost to you of the schools until you see the financial aid packages. Depending on how much a school wants you there, they can sweeten the pot to make it an attractive option for you.


Also, consider the cost of traveling back & forth for holidays or family events. Even 2 or 3 transcontinental trips per year can add $$$$ to your annual budget. Likewise, consider the cost of commuting between school and home, both in time (your most valuable resource in med school) and cost of operating a vehicle (or using public transportation, if available).

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

With all due respect to "Dad", you can't know the cost to you of the schools until you see the financial aid packages. Depending on how much a school wants you there, they can sweeten the pot to make it an attractive option for you.


Also, consider the cost of traveling back & forth for holidays or family events. Even 2 or 3 transcontinental trips per year can add $$$$ to your annual budget. Likewise, consider the cost of commuting between school and home, both in time (your most valuable resource in med school) and cost of operating a vehicle (or using public transportation, if available).

Lizzy is absolutely correct about financial aid. This will be a key factor and I am absolutely clueless about Wake and UW's propensity to hand out cash. A neighbor of ours got multiple acceptances and dickered between schools over aid and got a chunk knocked off the list price at a very well heeled school. I would not overplay your hand, however.

 

[TelMesMetMyel]

I'm from Winston-Salem and it is actually a very nice place to live but even for me there is no way I would pick Wake over your state school, especially when it is the University of Washington.

 

[Miniwheat]

I have submitted my FAFSA already. Can Anyone tell me when it would be reasonable to expect to hear about Fin-Aid packages from the schools?

 

[Miniwheat]

What exactly do you mean by overplay my hand BTW?

 

[Mayday]

At any rate I wouldn't use your desired specialty to dictate your choice of school. Most med students will change their mind at least once during the course of med school. Odds are pretty good that you won't be as interested in CT surgery when you get closer to the decision point.

I wasn't suggesting that - but if everything else doesn't decide him, it's another thing to look at to help make a decision.

 

[Miniwheat]

Dya get some good sleep Mayday?

 

[Mayday]

Dya get some good sleep Mayday?

Yeah, but not enough dammit LOL - woke up at 9:30 and couldn't get back to sleep. So here I am, obsessively checking SDN again 🙄

 

[Miniwheat]

So does anyone have advice on on the acceptable etiquete of withdrawing?

 

[etf]

this is just one lowly pre-med's opinion, but you'd have to be a ***** to pick wake over UW. especially getting in-state tuition.

 

[Mayday]

So does anyone have advice on on the acceptable etiquete of withdrawing?

Not really, but I'd still wait to see the fin aid packages 🙂

 

[LadyWolverine]

Advice on places to live if going to UW:
- Don't live anywhere too far away. Tacoma and Federal Way both come with enticing price stickers, but the commute is murderous. I lived in Federal Way for a few months before moving to the city. I hated the commute.
- Don't live in the U-District. Everything there is overpriced. Same goes for Queen Anne Hill and the Waterfront.
- Look at places relatively close to the U, like Ravenna, Capital Hill, First Hill. My sister had a sweet setup with a 2-br, 2-ba, hugh kitchen, and an awesome roommate, right by the Cathedral at 9th and Madison. She had a parking spot in the garage and the apartment complex had a gym and pool. Her rent was around $500/mo. Another friend of mine had a similar setup over by Swedish Hospital.
- Madison Park, Washington Park, Lakeview/Volunteer Park are all due south of the U. I would also look at housing options around there - it's an easy commute by bus to school.
- Ballard or Fremont are also pretty close options, and Fremont (used to be, not sure about now) is pretty affordable and safe.
- Green Lake area is nice and also very close to the U.
- If you don't mind a bit further of a commute, look at West Seattle. As I mentioned before, I lived on Alki while I worked at the U - 54th and Alki Ave. I was directly across the street from the beach (SO NICE), within walking distance of all the great shops/restaurants, and the area was ridiculously safe. I had many options for getting to the U - usually, I'd take the W Seattle Bridge to 99; but I-5 was always an option; so was taking the bus. When the water taxi was running, I would rollerblade down the path to the water taxi stand, take that over to the city, and then pick up the bus on 2nd or 3rd ave that took me directly to the U.

These options should be a good place to start to look for affordable, off-campus housing. Listing them made me realize that I miss Seattle so much. Congrats on your acceptance there, and best of luck. Hopefully, I'll be back in the area for residency. You just can't beat the mix of mountains, coastline, and trees, proximity to some amazing national parks, world-class skiing close by in the wintertime, and the most beautiful summers of any place on earth! It's even worth the rainy season. 🙂

 

[chr123]

I have submitted my FAFSA already. Can Anyone tell me when it would be reasonable to expect to hear about Fin-Aid packages from the schools?

you may have to submit a new one in a few months once you get all the tax infomation from this year.

 

[Miniwheat]

I thought the form was asking for 2006 tax info.