How much of a negative is a medical school with grades?

[ChrisMack390]

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At all of the pass/fail schools I have interviewed at, they have stressed how great it is that there are no grades because no one competes with each other. At the schools I have interviewed at that use honors/highpass/etc, they have also stressed a non-competitive atmosphere and said that their students like having the grades for various reasons (usually related to residency letters).

Is this a thing that actually matters? Pass/fail obvious sounds appealing, but I am going to want to get the highest score I can anyway, and I know these things are usually ranked, even if they keep the rank from the students.

 

[absolutelynot]

I would imagine that P/F schools without internal rankings are much lower stress and more collaborative environments than other curricular models. Also, I am pretty sure grades for preclinical are much less important than STEP 1, clerkship evaluations, faculty letters ...etc.

 

[ChrisMack390]

Sure. I guess my question is whether this should this be a factor in deciding where to go or is it not that important.

 

[SydSing]

Sure. I guess my question is whether this should this be a factor in deciding where to go or is it not that important.

I would think it's definitely a factor. Yet, if a more collaborative and lower stress environment means little to you (assuming you think this is unique to P/F schools), then who cares? This is really a personal question that only you can answer.

 

[ChrisMack390]

I would think it's definitely a factor. Yet, if a more collaborative and lower stress environment means little to you (assuming you think this is unique to P/F schools), then who cares? This is really a personal question that only you can answer.

A more collaborative and lower stress environment is definitely important to me. I am not sure that simply making a school pass/fall instills that, and I am equally unsure that having grades destroys it.

 

[WedgeDawg]

I think in the grand scheme of things it won't make a difference. That being said, I've had a great, collaborative, and relatively stress-free preclinical period at my unranked P/F school. I think I would have been more stressed if I had grades.

 

[SydSing]

A more collaborative and lower stress environment is definitely important to me. I am not sure that simply making a school pass/fall instills that, and I am equally unsure that having grades destroys it.

Yeah, that's why I edited my response to include that caveat. P/F doesn't ensure stress reduction, especially if you are going to be someone that wants to score really high on exams regardless of the grading system. I am personally focusing on if I felt my personality fit from what I saw from the students on interview day and if I can see myself being part of a 'family'. Support and camaraderie really matter to me so that's what I am looking at now.

 

[efle]

I've repeatedly been told this doesn't matter and focus on other things for school selection.

When it's PF it usually isn't really PF, because the dean's letter will still rank you or at least place you in something like quartiles. There are a few exceptions though.
Regardless even if it is graded, it doesn't really matter because preclinical grading is just not a big factor for residency apps. Step 1 is what matters.

This is also what the survey of residency programs shows - it's just not a big deal to anybody.

Things like location, cost, etc >> grading for first 1.5 or 2 years

 

[Goro]

It's not.

We have grades and my students are really altruistic.

At all of the pass/fail schools I have interviewed at, they have stressed how great it is that there are no grades because no one competes with each other. At the schools I have interviewed at that use honors/highpass/etc, they have also stressed a non-competitive atmosphere and said that their students like having the grades for various reasons (usually related to residency letters).

Is this a thing that actually matters? Pass/fail obvious sounds appealing, but I am going to want to get the highest score I can anyway, and I know these things are usually ranked, even if they keep the rank from the students.

 

[redferrari]

Anyone who says P/F reduces competition is full of excrement. Anywhere you go, there will be gunners. Anywhere you go, there will be people who aren't a**holes. Do not choose solely on P/F curriculum.

 

[Cawolf]

My school is graded but not curved, so everyone is working towards the same cutoffs. It definitely does not foster competition any more than a P/F school would.

If the grades were curved against the class, that would be a negative for me.

 

[mcatjelly]

I'm at an Honors/HP/Pass/Fail school and everyone is super collaborative. Lots of information sharing. So in my experience, it doesn't make a huge difference.

 

[aldol16]

I think your happiness/level of stress in your pre-clinical years will be determined more by your own personality than by the grading scheme used by the school you end up at. Part of the idea behind pass/fail is that you're an adult now and you have to take responsibility for your own learning. In your career, you're going to have to take a large learning responsibility and there won't always be someone there who will make you go to an 8 AM class. The idea is that you'll study as much as you know you need and spend the rest of your time achieving balance in your life. So whether you end up at a pass/fail or more standard grading curriculum, I think your personality is what determines whether you'll study a lot or a little - if you're the type who really wants to know every single little detail, then even at a P/F place, you probably would still be studying hard to get high scores on the exams because it makes you feel better (it's not like most places don't actually have scores - they give you scores and a pass is above a certain cutoff).

 

[piii]

I will say that the nice thing about unranked PF for me at least is that my motivation for doing well is purely out of self ambition and desire to learn and master the material, to be as knowledgeable as possibly. My preclinical grades play no weight in my future residency app, and without that factor pressuring me, the success I've had on my exams has been more rewarding, personally.

 

[DokterMom]

How do YOU operate? Would you tend to slack off a bit if your school were unranked pass/fail? Would you push harder if the school had letter grades?

As has been noted, pre-clinical academics don't count for much when it comes to securing preferred residency slots, however pre-clinical academics HAVE been shown to be strongly correlated with high STEP 1 scores, which is probably one of the most important factors.

So grading schema and testing practices ARE a factor to consider, but consider them from the perspective of what will motivate you most effectively.