How much research is generally needed?

[Jorje286]

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I understand one of the necessities for acceptance in an MD/PHD program is undergraduate research.

I'm currently in Fairleigh Dickinson University, and there are not a lot of research oppourtunities.

However, I'm working this summer with a Doctor in my uni on a microbiology program. I will basically be an assisstant, so it's not an independant project.

Supposing that I will get accepted into a summer research program next year, do you think that the following supposed research experiences would be enough to make my application competitive?

- research and lab assisstant (for one summer, and probably one full year)
- summer undergraduate research program (conducting independant research with the help of a mentor)
- honors research thesis

Thanks a lot in advance.

 

[shortyganoush]

You might have enough with great grades and MCAT, but it would probably be really helpful to research for another year after school. Try applying for a research position at a larger university near you.

 

[MrMunkily]

Western NJ also has tons of big Pharma in the area. Look into an internship at one of those if you're interested. It really helps to know someone inside the organization, though.

 

[tbo]

I'd suggest starting with academic research first (in support of what shortyganoush stated). Princeton, Rutgers, or some of the universities in Manhattan (Columbia, Cornell, NYU, Mt Sinai, Sloan Kettering). Independent research will always trump research assistant - although that's tough to measure. Ultimately, if you can contribute to good research, it will be noted. It's also tough to get publishable studies done independantly, so for a higher probability of success, you may want to be a low-on-the-totem pole guy at an established, reputable research lab over independent research with questionable mentorship.

Short of that, yes, there are a number of big pharmas in New Jersey. Merck, Schering Plough, Novartis, GlaxoSmithKline, Bristol-Myers Squibb to name a few. Most all of them have paid summer internships.

 

[Jorje286]

Thanks a lot guys for your help.

Just for info, I'm currently a sophomore, and after this semester I will be a rising junior, and I am yet to have any research experience. I guess that means that I should amass as much lab and research experience as much as I can.

Like I said, my first experience is going to be this summer, though I still don't know how much I'd involved in the actual research.

Would it be a good idea to ask professors in universities next to me, such as Princeton, Columbia, NYU..etc, for volunteer opportunities in their labs?

 

[tbo]

Jorje,
Your experience (or "lack of", as you seem to be unsure of) as an undergraduate will not go overlooked and you need not over-compensate for it. Professors/PIs are certainly aware of what an undergraduate can and cannot provide to their lab. I'd look at it in a different way. Show your interest in research and your willingness to work hard. Whether or not you have 'research experience' becomes secondary. I have pre-med students working for me and I'd instantly take someone that has 0 research experience but is motivated to do research and wants to think through problems (because I can teach them some of the mechanics of research) - over someone with 2 years of ho-hum research, trying to get a free-ride into med school by getting on an author-list but doing basically no intellectual work and doesn't want to learn how to do research. Short answer - don't undercut your ability.

As a side point to that, don't start talking about volunteer vs paid upfront. Just go in with a lot of sincere and honest interest and excitement. Who knows. Some labs have grant money to throw around, or allocations within their grants for research assistants like you. In the end you want to find an opportunity that not only helps you learn how to do good research, but something that hopefully advances you towards your goal (whatever that may be).

Good luck.

 

[Jorje286]

I just want to thank people who helped me in this thread, especially tbo, cause after his suggestions, I sent emails to labs in universities around me, and I got a project for the summer in a cognitive neuroscience lab in Rutgers. 😀

 

[tbo]

I just want to thank people who helped me in this thread, especially tbo, cause after his suggestions, I sent emails to labs in universities around me, and I got a project for the summer in a cognitive neuroscience lab in Rutgers. 😀

Glad I could help Jorje. I'm impressed at the turnaround time - nice work. Now kick ass in that lab, enjoy doing some interesting research, ask lots of questions, and shoot for getting into Eric Kandel's neuro lab at Columbia next summer 😉

tbo

 

[thos]

Here's what I had:

1. Two semesters of undergrad research course with the same mentor (one semester was required for the degree).

2. Worked as a student assistant in four different settings, everything from lab set up to dishes. While my university was pretty good sized, my department was small, so I worked for just about everyone.

3. Taught a non-majors micro lab as an undergrad.

4. When I was applying for MSTPs I was a grad student in the MS program, but I was just taking courses and teaching labs (my program knew I would be applying; I was late because of taking MCAT as a senior).

None of these were major research experiences, but I think they all added up to something larger. What the programs need to see is that you understand the grind of lab work, and you won't head back to med school after one tough month in lab. You also need to demonstrate a good understanding of the lab work you did. My research project was, frankly, pretty simple, I just helped with a PCR technique. But I was able to give the overall picture of what the lab was doing, and how my part of the project fit in. That, plus I was able to get very supportive letters from several profs and the department chairman.

 

[Flare]

Hey guys

I am in similar situation. I am going to be applying to MD/PhD schools for entrance in 2007. I go to Penn State University and have a 3.94 GPA with a 37 on the MCATs.

As far as research goes, I managed to research a semester during my sophomore year. I worked more as an assistant than actually having my own project. I couldn’t research the next semester because of lack of time. However, I did begin my honor’s undergraduate thesis in the same lab for my junior year. It’s much more independent and I will be continuing the research into my senior year. So that would total 2.5 years of undergraduate research. Additionally, I did some clinical research last summer for an internship.

As far as research is concerned, do you guys think this would be adequate for competing effectively at top tier schools from your personal experiences and of other people you have heard of? Or would I have to have greater experience to even try? I’d appreciate any input you can give.

Thanks a bunch

 

[Maebea]

Your GPA & MCAT are fine, and the duration of your research experience is OK. The critical factors will be how you write about your research and how your research mentor writes about you. If you have not displayed much independence, motivation or critical thought in your research, your chances for a top program are diminished significantly. You do not have to be the next Vadar or Habari 😉 but you do need to be a hard-working, thoughtful, and creative experimentalist.

Every year there are perhaps 15 to 20 applicants who receive acceptances from nearly all of the most-sought-after MSTPs (Columbia, Cornell, Duke, Harvard, Hopkins, Stanford. UCSF, Penn, Wash U & Yale). These are the walks-on-water type applicants that everyone wants in their program. But these individuals take up only a small fraction of the ~600 MD-PhD entering class spots available nationally. In fact, the 10 schools listed above collectively matricualted 132 students last year, so there are places for a large number of excellent applicants who fall outside of the group of "lottery picks".

Bottom line: your undergrad performance & MCAT scores will not be a problem for the top programs. You will almost certainly be interviewed by nearly all these programs if you have done good work and your mentor says things like "top 5% of undergrads who have worked in my lab" or "functioning at the level of a 2nd-year grad student". Your acceptance will depend on how well you do in your interviews.

Good luck.