How much research? When?

[montessori2md]

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How are you all trying to fit in research with the prereqs, MCAT, and life in general? How serious have you been about research?

I was a humanities major in my past life, now I'm teaching and have a toddler. I could theoretically quit my job to take a position as a research assistant (I live near DC, I'm sure I could find "something"!), but then I'd be stuck actually paying for childcare : ) which would probably be equivalent to whatever I'd be paid as a research assistant, given the position would be part time so I can take classes.

I've done research, I've written papers, it's just that my research was on 17th century Peru, rather than, say, childhood asthma. I've also researched and designed classrooms and materials for children 3months-6 years.

It would be easier for me to wait to dive into any serious research until after I've taken the MCAT (say, summer 2007), replacing the time I was spending on classes and the test with lab time. By then, I should also have located a faculty member to work with, or an internship I find appealing. But will that be too late for ADCOMs to take seriously?

What are you doing?

FYI I'm hoping to stay in/around DC for school, my school of choice is GWU, with Georgetown as a close second, then VCU and UMD after that. My GPA in what little science I have is 3.4 (2 geology classes, 1 bio, 1 chem), but those classes were honors classes, not the standard "101" which I hope will help. My understanding is that G-dub and Georgetown are both schools that emphasize medical practice, rather than research, so I'm hoping my background will appeal to them.

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

FYI I'm hoping to stay in/around DC for school, my school of choice is GWU, with Georgetown as a close second, then VCU and UMD after that. My GPA in what little science I have is 3.4 (2 geology classes, 1 bio, 1 chem), but those classes were honors classes, not the standard "101" which I hope will help. My understanding is that G-dub and Georgetown are both schools that emphasize medical practice, rather than research, so I'm hoping my background will appeal to them.

I don't think that fact that they are honors classes makes much difference. Just get a 4.0 in all the classes that you take from now on, and you'll be fine. If your overall GPA is about the same, then you will need a good score on the MCAT to make up for the low GPA (I am in the same boat -- overall undergraduate GPA of 3.4, boosted to 3.5 by getting a 4.0 in all of my post-bac. work, but still lower than the 3.65 average GPA of med. school acceptees in my state. I guess my science GPA is much higher than that, but I'm still not sure to what extent medical schools look at Science vs. Overall, and this probably varies from school to school.)

As far as research goes, I don't think you really need to have any research unless you plan on applying for an MD/PhD program. What med. schools like to see is clinical experience, usually obtained by volunteering at a hospital or "shadowing" a doctor. Maybe some people can make up for a lack of clinical experience by having good research experience (?) but I don't think that research experience is necessary in and of itself. Of course, if you are planning on applying for an MD/PhD program, your research experience may be one of the most important parts of your application. Therefore, I wouldn't stress out too much about research, unless it is something that you really want to do, and you don't think that you will be able to get a lot of other clinical experience.

Good Luck,

Jota

 

[relentless11]

In regards to the value of research, jota_jota said it all. Research experience can't hurt you unless you use up studying time to do research resulting in poor grades. In terms of research experience, do you mean by writing papers as getting publications? Publications are the "currency" of research. They provide proof of your contribution to a research project. Your contribution to the publication/project is shown by the order you name is listed in the author list. First-authors essentially had the most contribution, and last authors had less. However, if you didn't get a publication, then a letter of rec from the research professor stating your contribution may suffice. Really, you can be published in anything (science or nonscience). They'll always see it in a positive light since it shows your committment to any type of research.

As for me, I did some bench research, but mainly clinical research as an undergrad for about 4 years. Mainly in the realm of cardiac biomarker testing for early detection of MI, or CHF. Anyway, I am now continuing that research as a PhD student in the same lab. Get to see patients on my own, and recruit them into my project. Over the past 6 years I've had numerous first-author/second author publications in books, peer-reviewed journals, and national/presentations. Really...at this point in time, I don't even think my publications even matter. Aslong as I pop out a PhD, med schools will know I did research..haha.

In my opinion, I'd focus on the MCAT. Time is important for that. I couldn't stop doing research because I had a paid research position. However every free moment I had, I was at Princeton Review or at home studying for the MCAT. A 40 on the MCAT looks a lot better than research experiencne. I ended getting a 36S on my MCAT, but by the time I got that score, I was older, knew how to study for it, and taken many science classes beyond the normal pre-reqs to help my science knowledge big time. (Verbal Reasoning is a pain still a pain though).

I agree with the previous poster in regards to honors classes. Ultimately I don't think they mean much in the whole grand scheme of things. In my opinion, I don't think there are any standardizations for honors classes between schools. So med schools can take it as a grain of salt. Of course it can't hurt you to take an honors class. But the med schools will probably just look at your grade, and then correlate how well you did on the MCAT (standardized). You will need to push hard to get good grades in ALL courses, especially science classes. A B in honors class will still look less impressive than an A in the non-honors equivilent, not to mention reduce your GPA by the same amount (assuming same units).

 

[montessori2md]

If that's the case (honors classes don't matter), then why do universities push premeds into the most advanced classes possible? I suppose a more advanced class could help you prepare for the MCAT and med school more than an introductory course, but is it just as possible you could ace say, the basic, non-calc physics and catch whatever else you need for the MCAT elsewhere?

 

[blee]

If that's the case (honors classes don't matter), then why do universities push premeds into the most advanced classes possible? I suppose a more advanced class could help you prepare for the MCAT and med school more than an introductory course, but is it just as possible you could ace say, the basic, non-calc physics and catch whatever else you need for the MCAT elsewhere?

Actually, pre-meds are not pushed into the most advanced classes. For example, at both my regular and post-bacc schools, there were three different intro-level chemistry classes. One was for non-majors ("chemistry in everyday life"), one was for majors and pre-meds, and one was an honors-level course for majors. The most basic course does not offer enough hard science to prepare the student for the MCAT, but the honors level course offers more or presents the existing material to unnecessarily great depth.

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

Actually, pre-meds are not pushed into the most advanced classes. For example, at both my regular and post-bacc schools, there were three different intro-level chemistry classes. One was for non-majors ("chemistry in everyday life"), one was for majors and pre-meds, and one was an honors-level course for majors. The most basic course does not offer enough hard science to prepare the student for the MCAT, but the honors level course offers more or presents the existing material to unnecessarily great depth.

That is pretty much my experience at the schools that I attended, as well. The only other benefit that I saw from Honors classes at my current school is that Honors Intro. to Genetics and Honors Genetics (2 semesters) replaces Intro. Bio. 1, Intro. Bio. 2, and Genetics (3 semesters.) Therefore, the honors classes are faster paced and let you get those intro. classes (Genetics is a prerequistie for EVERY upper-division Bio. class at my school, is it is kind of like an intro. class in that respect) done more quickly.

All other things equal, I think that a 3.5 GPA in "Regular" classes would probably always be preferable to a 3.4 GPA in "Honors" classes as far as ADCOMs are concerned, but in Med. school applications, there's really no such thing as "all other things equal."

Jota

 

[relentless11]

If that's the case (honors classes don't matter), then why do universities push premeds into the most advanced classes possible? I suppose a more advanced class could help you prepare for the MCAT and med school more than an introductory course, but is it just as possible you could ace say, the basic, non-calc physics and catch whatever else you need for the MCAT elsewhere?

For the most part, advanced classes means upper division vs. lower division. In general, honors classes are mainly lower division courses. Despite all the hype, honors classes will have to teach you the same amount of material as the standard course. As Jota_jota said, i might be faster paced, but alas it is a lower division class.

On my end, we have honors general chem, and standard general chem. Both are lower division. Fine, getting an A in the honors one sounds great. But again, everyone has the chem requirement. If you then get an A in physical chemistry, then you are standing out. PChem is usually a upper division course. In another example, my school offers two OChem courses. Lower division and upper division. Our med school advises applicants to take "the more rigorous option"..which is the upper division course. Thus an A in upper division course is always worth a lot more than any of the pre-req courses.

I have to agree with Jota_jota in regards to having a higher grade in normal, vanilla classes, vs. a lower GPA in honors classes. In fact that might be worse because it shows you can't handle the workload under "honors" conditions or in upper division courses.

Take home message is, upper division courses > lower division courses. In regards to getting into med school, the question isn't about taking "impressive" courses, the question IS DOING WELL in those impressive courses. It is not a legit reason to say one has a lower grade because the class was harder. Because, it only gets harder in med school, and thus the more rigorous option is emphasized since it prepares you in terms of the subject, and in terms of your ability to handle a harder workload and do well at the same time.

 

[blee]

Getting back to research, I found it rather difficult to do "undergrad style" research as a post-bacc students. The problem was mostly one of funding; the science departments were strong but small, and there wasn't a whole lot of money available for undergrad researchers...which meant that the positions typically went to regular undergrads, who had four years (potentially) to work, among other things. That said, a couple of professors I approached were okay with having me on board on a volunteer basis. I just wasn't so sure that I would have had the chance to do meaningful research work in only two semesters as an unpaid volunteer.

My solution was to shadow a physician and use my new-but-small network after the end of my post-bacc year to land a job around his practice. It wasn't perfect, but I think it totally strengthened my application anyway.