How Political is the Admissons Process?

[russellang]

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Recently a girl came in to shadow the vet at our clinic. She was a very nice girl, asked alot of questions and was willing to help. She did say that she had almost no veterinary experience but she did have an extensive amount of animal experience. We then got to talking and we are both applying to vet school this year and both applying to our IS school.

Later that day after she left I was talking to the vet because he said that she will definetly be getting into our IS school. He then elaborated and said that one of her immediate family members is a professor at our IS vet school and is a prominent one at that.

I was just wondering if you guys have heard of any unwritten behind-the-scenes trends if someone who applies with family connections at the school that they will get into the school, regardless of their background.

Thank you

 

[that redhead]

Later that day after she left I was talking to the vet because he said that she will definetly be getting into our IS school. He then elaborated and said that one of her immediate family members is a professor at our IS vet school and is a prominent one at that.

I was just wondering if you guys have heard of any unwritten behind-the-scenes trends if someone who applies with family connections at the school that they will get into the school, regardless of their background.

I don't know. But I imagine there isn't enough data to create a "trend" since I think very few people who are prominent vet school professors have children who necessarily want to go to vet school in the first place. And I doubt that even with family connections any random kid would be accepted - I would imagine they'd need competitive grades/GREs/experience, etc like everyone else, as well as a good interview with their non-family member. So while I'm sure it can happen, I don't think it's a crazy unfair conspiracy going on.

 

[Robdude]

*Everything* in life is political.

The people who decide who to take are....people. People aren't known for being fair or rational. Of course they pull strings for their friends, family, people they like.

This doesn't end when you get out of vet school. Getting jobs, getting promotions, heck, even getting customers/clients is more about perception and connections than any fair and balanced assessment of your objective abilities.

 

[Minnerbelle]

*Everything* in life is political.

The people who decide who to take are....people. People aren't known for being fair or rational. Of course they pull strings for their friends, family, people they like.

This doesn't end when you get out of vet school. Getting jobs, getting promotions, heck, even getting customers/clients is more about perception and connections than any fair and balanced assessment of your objective abilities.

👍 I think the key to getting what you want (admissions, jobs, etc...) is to maximize your credentials for WHO YOU ARE, and hope for the best. No sense in worrying about other people with different life circumstances. There will be one point in time or another during your life where your particular life circumstances will be in your favor over someone else.

 

[Dsmoody23]

This is not much different than any LOR included in your application.

If one of your recommendations comes from an alumni, you're probably going to get a certain degree of preference. Or a faculty member from the undergrad side of a vet school is going to be more valuable as a reference than Professor Whoosit from nowhere.

Networking and who you know is part of any competitive process, unless it's a foot race.

 

[LetItSnow]

I was just wondering if you guys have heard of any unwritten behind-the-scenes trends if someone who applies with family connections at the school that they will get into the school, regardless of their background.

Keep in mind that the perception of 'fairness' depends on which player you are in the situation. If you're someone who got aced out because an insider influenced the situation to get someone else selected, yeah, it will feel unfair. But if you're on the inside, selecting someone who is more of a known quantity is a good thing.

I don't see this as much different than when I hire someone at work ... I'll always give some preference to people that were referred and vouched for by my team members. After all, they know the person and will have to work with them, which will weigh heavily in my decision. Should I ignore the inside advice from my team members just to treat every applicant 100% equally by looking only at their application? That would be ludicrous: I'm not in it to treat every applicant fairly (other than as required by law). I'm in it to hire someone I think has the highest chance of being successful on my team.

Vet schools really aren't much different. They are "hiring" students in a sense, and they want to do the best they can to get students they think have the highest chance of succeeding. Relying on in-house opinions makes sense (until they cross the line into nepotism).

This can work against you, though. I had one employee who was the kiss of death for an applicant ... I didn't care much for his work ethic, so I wasn't about to take his advice hiring someone else. 🙂

 

[Chinola]

I met a girl whose mom is a vet that works for her IS vet school. She was wait listed and never got called for a spot. She ended up going to a different vet school where she was accepted out of state. So even though maybe it helped a bit that her mom worked for the vet school, it still didn't get her in.

 

[CountThePetals]

The vet that I work with currently has told me that it was extremely political when he went to school. He became very close with one of his undergrad professors who knew someone from admissions, I guess? Anyway, he told me that the only thing that he was asked during his interview was who he thought the next president was going to be and what he thought about OSU football and then they said he could go. He got his acceptance notice a little while after that. It's been a while sine he went to school, but still... that's crazy.

 

[Robdude]

The vet that I work with currently has told me that it was extremely political when he went to school. He became very close with one of his undergrad professors who knew someone from admissions, I guess? Anyway, he told me that the only thing that he was asked during his interview was who he thought the next president was going to be and what he thought about OSU football and then they said he could go. He got his acceptance notice a little while after that. It's been a while sine he went to school, but still... that's crazy.

I can't say the same thing about vet school; but I had a similar experience with a Master's program. I had a professor that I got along with really well and did a project without, outside of class. He eventually asked me if I were planning on attending grad school, I said I was 'thinking about it'. He set up a meeting between myself and the head of the department.

Essentially, I was accepted before I even applied. I hadn't even taken the GRE yet and was told I had to take it before some particular date, but was told 'not to worry about it'.

I don't think it was fair, but it did happen.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Essentially, I was accepted before I even applied. I hadn't even taken the GRE yet and was told I had to take it before some particular date, but was told 'not to worry about it'.

I don't think it was fair, but it did happen.

I think that's pretty common for grad schools. I know a few friends who were pretty much invited to grad programs through endorsements from professors/PI's, where they were told that the application process would be just a matter of formality. My sister was rejected from Harvard for her PhD program, and I think a single phone call from her favorite professor with connections corrected that "mistake."

Fair or not, good networking is a really really important asset in most careers. And while it may not be as big of a deal for vet school admissions, it plays a huge role in residency match (and I'd imagine getting hired for GP work) so we might as well get used to it.

 

[Nechochwen]

👍 for what LetItSnow said.

I try to look at it as not so much as "who you know", but rather "who knows you". You obviously try to show to try to show (and have) work ethic, responsiblity, professionalism, etc to those you work for. If they can use their connections to vouch for you, then I don't see anything wrong with that. As long as these connections are based upon trust and respect, and not power and influence, people of higher qualifications should end up where they belong.

Does that mean it's unfair that some applicants have these connections while others don't, sure; but the same can be said for economic and educational disparities. Good or bad, we just play the cards dealt.

 

[twelvetigers]

I would kinda think that it would be easier to pull some strings for grad school (e.g. someone knows the PI and talks to them personally) than it would be for vet school. But, yanno. I guess, if you know someone... lucky you! If not, I suppose you'll have to make sure you're a great applicant and count on that.

Networking is definitely important for internships, residencies, and employment, so definitely make some good impressions during vet school. No doubts there.

 

[alliecat44]

Everything about veterinary school is political--from admissions to the administration to faculty hiring/firing/promotions to the match program. Same as with everything else in life. It can be disappointing to consider, but I think others have made very valid points about why you might want to take someone who is a known quantity over an unknown....There was a guy in my class who was rejected the first time he applied and accepted the second time. Lo and behold, three months into school the administration announced that his father had conveniently donated $1,000,000 to the school...go figure. 🙄 (No comment on subsequent academic worthiness/performance since all I know is secondhand.)

It sucks, but you can also play it to your advantage, too. For my part, I try to meet and get to know as many people as I can, be as nice and genuine as possible, not push for anything and hope for the best. If you put your best foot forward in front of as many people as possible, then the only associations with your name can be good ones! 🙂 (Well, in most circumstances!)

 

[breenie]

I spent a lot of time shadowing an alumnus of one of the schools I applied to. He wrote me a letter of recommendation, and my interviewers brought him up during the interview. They mentioned that he was an alumnus and that I should say hi when I went home. He still takes on externs from the school.

Did it make a difference in my acceptance? I don't know. But they seemed to care on some level, even if it was just to say hi.

*shrug* I would agree with everyone who says that most things are political, and it's hard to ignore people's connections. We read reviews online for products and ask our friends about things before we buy, I think it's hard not to want to indulge in a similar practice for school admissions.

 

[twelvetigers]

I got the same "say 'hi' for me" thing, but from an interviewer that was classmates with the vet I had most hours with and a LoR from. Did that get me in? Lol... definitely not. Don't suppose it hurt, either.

 

[LetItSnow]

I got the same "say 'hi' for me" thing, but from an interviewer that was classmates with the vet I had most hours with and a LoR from. Did that get me in? Lol... definitely not. Don't suppose it hurt, either.

Heh. I had almost the opposite experience: I had a real "oh ****" moment in my interview when they asked me one of those "tell me about a time you've had difficulty working with someone" or some such behavioral question.

I picked someone that one of my interviewers, as it turned out, knew. Even though I didn't name the person, the circumstances made it clear enough to the interviewer.

I was kicking myself mentally for my stupidity, thinking "oh well, there's always next year," when the interviewer laughed and said, "she can be difficult to work with."

Phew.

 

[twelvetigers]

See, everyone runs the risk of an accidental good (or bad!) association. Stuff just happens sometimes. Be careful not to call anyone a poo-poo head, and it'll probably be okay either way.

 

[nyanko]

I think that's pretty common for grad schools. I know a few friends who were pretty much invited to grad programs through endorsements from professors/PI's, where they were told that the application process would be just a matter of formality.

I was invited to interview for a Ph.D. fellowship on a school's dime before my application was even fully submitted - in fact, I was wavering on whether I was going to even submit it or not when the program director and a professor that I had spoken to previously both emailed me and nudged me along a little. But that's pretty standard for graduate schools, for sure.

It's not quite THAT caliber of influence for veterinary school - at most schools you've still got (1) more competition and (2) more people making the decision which adds up to less each person's personal biases/agenda will play into the collective decision-making process. But I will say that I'm sure my own application was helped by the fact that I did research for a Masters with a professor in the UCDSVM.