How should the resume of a DO student looking to get into Mid-tier IM look like?

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DrStephenStrange

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Right now, as an incoming OMS2, I'm really interested in Cardiovascular diseases. So I wanna keep my options open as I work towards getting a good board score later this academic year. I know one should always try to get into an IM residency program with fellowships in-house, but as a DO we all know how hard it can be to even get into a Mid-tier IM programs. So what should the board scores and general resume of a DO student look like to land a good IM program? It would probably be better if I get the point of view of an IM PD since they are the gate keepers who will eventually review my applications 3 years from now.
Thank you already!!!
 
There’s a bunch of threads about this on here. Same stuff as always. As good as you can get in terms of boards, research, grades, etc. If you bust your butt it won’t matter what you go into
Research for IM?
 
Research is king in mid top tier IM. I would definitely try to have a first author publication (accepted or in press) by the time ERAS opens, along with some posters/presentations etc. While first author may seem like overkill to some, it can definitely guarantee you a chance at a great IM program. They tend to really value research, on par with board scores/pedigree.
 
Why do you say that? I was under the impression that they were hard to land at least for DOs.
I mean it's Primary Care, so unless you're gunning for a academic IM outfit, I feel like you can get Internal somewhere with a 220+
 
Define mid tier to some it’s a state university to others it’s anything less than top ten and I’ll respond
 
Define mid tier to some it’s a state university to others it’s anything less than top ten and I’ll respond
Mid tier IM meaning one that keeps your options open for a Cardiovascular diseases fellowship.
 
You need to be top 10% in the class, with 10+ pubs, and 260 on step 1 and 2, and have all the graders in COMLEX PE come out and shake your hands after you finish with each encounter. good luck
Lol.
 
You need to be top 10% in the class, with 10+ pubs, and 260 on step 1 and 2, and have all the graders in COMLEX PE come out and shake your hands after you finish with each encounter. good luck

How do we prove they shook our hand though... mini cam in our white coat buttons?
 
Mid tier IM meaning one that keeps your options open for a Cardiovascular diseases fellowship.

Fellowships (esp cards and GI) still look at Step 1/2 to seriously consider candidates, so you want to take USMLE Steps in addition to comlex
Start research in cards now, because residency will be busier than med school and you will have only around 2 years to prep for fellowship apps if you don't do a chief year. I thought it was crazy when some of my classmates started research in GI/cards as an MS2/MS3 after deciding on IM->fellowship plan, but I can see how it will benefit them immensely!
Consider doing a chief year... in some programs it's pretty competitive to be nominated as chief, so come in to intern year ready to work hard and more importantly network and impress your PD/chiefs/peers and to act like a leader

As a med student, do an away rotation or two at academic IM programs that you're considering... IM aways usually don't help much, but they also can't really hurt... if you flop, oh well it's just one program and there is plenty of them, but if you shine, it can really help you match there
 
Fellowships (esp cards and GI) still look at Step 1/2 to seriously consider candidates, so you want to take USMLE Steps in addition to comlex
Start research in cards now, because residency will be busier than med school and you will have only around 2 years to prep for fellowship apps if you don't do a chief year. I thought it was crazy when some of my classmates started research in GI/cards as an MS2/MS3 after deciding on IM->fellowship plan, but I can see how it will benefit them immensely!
Consider doing a chief year... in some programs it's pretty competitive to be nominated as chief, so come in to intern year ready to work hard and more importantly network and impress your PD/chiefs/peers and to act like a leader

As a med student, do an away rotation or two at academic IM programs that you're considering... IM aways usually don't help much, but they also can't really hurt... if you flop, oh well it's just one program and there is plenty of them, but if you shine, it can really help you match there
Thanks, that's great advice. I already started doing Cards research although it's bench research. Do you think it matters which one you do, bench vs clinical research? I will keep everything else you said in mind going forward.
 
Thanks, that's great advice. I already started doing Cards research although it's bench research. Do you think it matters which one you do, bench vs clinical research? I will keep everything else you said in mind going forward.

Bench is always very impressive, but mostly valued by programs that can support it when you're a fellow (ie top tier). It's hard to obtain pub quality results in bench as a med student (I did a summer and it didn't yield much lol). I'd try to get involved in a clinical project. but bench is always impressive and PDs like seeing it. however, there are a lot of MD/PhDs applying to mid tiers in IM who will definitely have more impressive and impactful bench publications than pure MD/DOs like us ever will... so I would focus on clinical research more as a non-dual degree student and market yourself as someone who is interested in clinical excellence and outcomes/clinical research.
 
If you are interested in an academic IM residency, then having some research or presentations help since your fellow applicants (e.g., MD students) will also have those in addition to good board scores. Remember, a lot of MD students are at large research universities where they have plenty of opportunities to get bench research, or even clinical research (since these universities have attached large teaching hospitals where the attendings are doing either bench research, clinical research, or QA/QI projects) as well as residencies where residents could also use an eager medical student to help with the grunt work (in exchange for having your name on the poster/publications). Most DO schools don't have readily access to those resources (esp the newer ones with barely any clinical affiliation, no strong academic affiliation, and not near any medical research hub/centers)

Another thing to keep in mind - Cardiology participates in the Summer Match - which means application (ERAS) opens up in July (end of 2nd year of residency). So while you have 2 years to get your applications in order ... you really don't. It takes time to get IRB approval (if starting a fresh project), time to collect data, or review data. It takes time to submit for publications, wait for feedback, make changes, wait for more feedback, until it gets accepted. And poster presentations at conferences (whether regional or national ACP, ACC, etc) only occurs once a year. And this is on top of your clinical duties as an intern (and junior resident), putting in 80+ hrs/week on wards/ICU/cardiology, etc (and create a strong impression to get those strong LORs for fellowship)

That's why some take a chief year - in addition to the prestige, it also gives more time to polish one's resume.

Audition rotations outside your home institution during residency is also very difficult (and limited, subject to your residency scheduling and approval of your PD). If you are doing it in a different state, there's state licensing issues. There's medical malpractice insurance to also deal with (will your home institution cover you?). And you don't have home field advantage. You're an outsider. And you're only there for a 4 weeks -1 month - you don't know the EMR and how to order stuff or do stuff (discharge, admit, place consults). You don't even know where the bathrooms are. And you don't know the residents there, the nurses there, etc. And yet you're suppose to "stand out". You're no longer a student - you're a resident. And they expect you to function as a resident. It's a whole different level of expectations (why do you think July/August intern year is so hard?)

TL;DR: It's hard. It's possible - plenty of DO do it every year. But you need a game plan and you need to bring your best game. Planning on getting an academic IM residency is a start. It's a marathon, not a sprint.


Just my perspective as someone who did an academic residency and fellowship, and participated in the interviews and ranking of potential residents/fellows.
 
Looking to match at an academic IM program myself like OP. I am a rising M2 DO student as well and havent done any research this summer and dont plan on it considering I only have 6 weeks of summer left. since it sounds like general concensus is “research is important” when do you start? M2-M3 summer? during M3 rotations? Am I supposed to have started already?
 
I just feel like that research would come during your residency years - not during medical school years

Doing research as a resident where you have even less time and resources available can be difficult. In order to get into a programme with the research in place during residency you need to have enough research on your CV as a medical student for them to actually want to interview and rank you.
 
only have 6 weeks of summer left

Only? Seems like plenty of time to connect with a clinical mentor who can guide you on a project. Summer between MS2 & MS3 is usually spent on dedicated so don't plan too much around it. Beginning of MS3 is also a good time to start but will be really hard to publish before ERAS submissions are due. I'd try to hustle this summer so you are not trying to balance boards, rotations with research later on
 
Only? Seems like plenty of time to connect with a clinical mentor who can guide you on a project. Summer between MS2 & MS3 is usually spent on dedicated so don't plan too much around it. Beginning of MS3 is also a good time to start but will be really hard to publish before ERAS submissions are due. I'd try to hustle this summer so you are not trying to balance boards, rotations with research later on
So start Reaching out to people about researchnow? because I don’t know if I’ll have time to start nd finish research this summer Especially since I haven’t reached out to anyone yet. And I actually have five weeks left
 
So start Reaching out to people about researchnow? because I don’t know if I’ll have time to start nd finish research this summer Especially since I haven’t reached out to anyone yet. And I actually have five weeks left

reach out now at least you'll start something you can likely finish before end of MS2 and dedicated! Definitely don't need to finish in the 5 weeks. At least you can get an IRB started before the end of your summer vacation.
 
You need to be top 10% in the class, with 10+ pubs, and 260 on step 1 and 2, and have all the graders in COMLEX PE come out and shake your hands after you finish with each encounter. good luck

You say that jokingly but these are the kinds of apps the DOs have that match to places like UT Southwestern IM....
Mid tier IM meaning one that keeps your options open for a Cardiovascular diseases fellowship.

You likely don't need mid-tier for that. Just a solid university (hell even a solid community) program with an in-house fellowship will likely set you up decent. A true academic mid-tier residency will likely need a 240+, solid research outcomes, etc.
So start Reaching out to people about researchnow? because I don’t know if I’ll have time to start nd finish research this summer Especially since I haven’t reached out to anyone yet. And I actually have five weeks left

There are lots of medical students that do research during the school year...
 
You say that jokingly but these are the kinds of apps the DOs have that match to places like UT Southwestern IM....


You likely don't need mid-tier for that. Just a solid university (hell even a solid community) program with an in-house fellowship will likely set you up decent. A true academic mid-tier residency will likely need a 240+, solid research outcomes, etc.


There are lots of medical students that do research during the school year...
Out of curiosity how do you know what is considered mid tier vs low tier uni program? I know whats considered “good” by lay public doesnt always line up with what is good in the medical world (ie UW seattle IM vs Dartmouth IM- the former is way better but dartmouth has the nametag).
 
Out of curiosity how do you know what is considered mid tier vs low tier uni program? I know whats considered “good” by lay public doesnt always line up with what is good in the medical world (ie UW seattle IM vs Dartmouth IM- the former is way better but dartmouth has the nametag).
Word of mouth from people in the field basically. Doximity is far from perfect but could likely give someone a very broad general idea.
 
You say that jokingly but these are the kinds of apps the DOs have that match to places like UT Southwestern IM....

Really? I thought a CV like that would be good enough for specialties such as ortho, derm, etc.
 
Really? I thought a CV like that would be good enough for specialties such as ortho, derm, etc.

They are. Top tier IM is just as competitive as any of those. Just because someone has a superstar app doesn't mean they have to want to be a plastic surgeon....
 
They are. Top tier IM is just as competitive as any of those. Just because someone has a superstar app doesn't mean they have to want to be a plastic surgeon....

oh my bad, didn't know top tier IM is as competitive as those specialties!
 
They are. Top tier IM is just as competitive as any of those. Just because someone has a superstar app doesn't mean they have to want to be a plastic surgeon....
Would getting into a low tier IM program exlude me from applying to Cards?
 
Thats fair. What about hem/onc?
Although that was 4 years ago, but the attached picture pretty much sums it up.
Are there any university programs that are low tier or are most of them at least mid tier?
There's not really a ranking system for residency programs. The term top, mid, low tiers are arbitrary terms solely based on how competitive a program is to land, availability of resources and research, and maybe also availability of fellowship in-house. Basically, University programs almost always will fall in the top or mid tier categories because they have the resources available to them, and the bottom of the barrel are probably rural/middle of nowhere community IM programs with less emphasis on research. The latter will have you either stuck in IM or one of the other least competitive subspecialties.
7fac1c9f-9e6b-4830-b48e-4e6e4786ba22.jpeg
 
Although that was 4 years ago, but the attached picture pretty much sums it up.There's not really a ranking system for residency programs. The term top, mid, low tiers are arbitrary terms solely based on how competitive a program is to land, availability of resources and research, and maybe also availability of fellowship in-house. Basically, University programs almost always will fall in the top or mid tier categories because they have the resources available to them, and the bottom of the barrel are probably rural/middle of nowhere community IM programs with less emphasis on research. The latter will have you either stuck in IM or one of the other least competitive subspecialties. View attachment 267880
Holy nephro lol i dont think ive heard a single good thing about it ever since ive been in med school. Thank God we have some people that still want to do it. Anyways, awesome chart thanks! I am however shocked that some people on SDN are saying 240+ for university IM (mid tier)-seems a little high
 
Holy nephro lol i dont think ive heard a single good thing about it ever since ive been in med school. Thank God we have some people that still want to do it. Anyways, awesome chart thanks! I am however shocked that some people on SDN are saying 240+ for university IM (mid tier)-seems a little high
From what I've seen a 220+ should still be able to land you a decent program. I started this thread basically to know what other things I should be doing besides research.
 
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Low reimbursement. They both make less than outpatient or hospitalists. This means the people going into those subspecialties will take on more years training for lower earning potential.
Heard similar about Endo lol is endo actually just as bad in a similar sense?
 
Nephrology used to print money, but that isn't how it works anymore.
Makes sense lol my buddies dad was a nephrologist (passed away from cancer unfortunately) but the guy had lambos/yacht all the good stuff and I always wondered how being a nephro that was possible when he was living like a plastic surgeon. Must have been the times (1980s-90s)
 
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