how to deal with people asking for help with a take home exam

[ilovelanguages]

Recently, in one of my 400 level Bio classes, the class was relieved to hear that the professor was making the exam a take home exam, where exam questions would be answered in essay form. She proceeded to make a speech about people getting credit for the work they put in, and how people used to ask her for answers to questions she put her hard work in for in college, to which she said "why should other people reap the benefits of my work? if you assist someone in cheating on this exam you are also cheating".

A few days later - i've been contacted by five people asking for help on the 'hard' problem on the exam. Nobody can find the answer. The irony is that it's stated plainly in the book and nobody seems to do the readings.

I told the first person "dude, do the relevant readings..." but since then have just ignored everyone else.

Two questions:
1. Am I OK with what i said to person A? Feeling kind of paranoid
2. The other people asking me for help - they are people I study with, people going to my state med school next year, people I work in labs with in school. It's tough for me to just ignore them completely (don't want to be a dbag). Of course I will not cheat on the other hand. Your advice?

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[Barcu]

Recently, in one of my 400 level Bio classes, the class was relieved to hear that the professor was making the exam a take home exam, where exam questions would be answered in essay form. She proceeded to make a speech about people getting credit for the work they put in, and how people used to ask her for answers to questions she put her hard work in for in college, to which she said "why should other people reap the benefits of my work? if you assist someone in cheating on this exam you are also cheating".

A few days later - i've been contacted by five people asking for help on the 'hard' problem on the exam. Nobody can find the answer. The irony is that it's stated plainly in the book and nobody seems to do the readings.

I told the first person "dude, do the relevant readings..." but since then have just ignored everyone else.

Two questions:
1. Am I OK with what i said to person A? Feeling kind of paranoid
2. The other people asking me for help - they are people I study with, people going to my state med school next year, people I work in labs with in school. It's tough for me to just ignore them completely (don't want to be a dbag). Of course I will not cheat on the other hand. Your advice?

1) You are ok.
2) Find a new people to associate with. If they need to cheat, they won't last long. (Hopefully).

 

[Overmjnd]

throw out some red herrings. since they're your friends, no need to blow them off, just every time it comes up change the subject. When they say they want to work together, tell them you want to work on it alone for a bit just to buy some time. Most likely they'll be stressed and just resort to asking each other and forget about you.

If they end up cornering you into a wall about it, just pretend like you have no idea what's going on and don't know how to answer it. Win win.

 

[JustMeditate]

Just tell them the truth: You aren't allowed to collaborate on this assignment, and you will comply with the requirements set forth by your instructor.

Don't "pretend" you plan on helping them later, once you've worked on the problem yourself. That's not fair to your friends, who may very well hold off on doing their work, thinking you'll rescue them a day or two before the exam is due. Let them know exactly what you intend to do---complete the assignment on your own---so that they can plan a strategy for themselves accordingly.

It may feel like you are being rude, but you aren't. You have your own reputation, and grade, to defend and unless your friends are d-bags, they'll understand. You can't risk an "Academic Misconduct" notation on your transcript. A mark like that pretty much guarantees that you'll never get into med school.

Part of being a professional is being honest with those around you and not being ashamed to both 1) Stick to the academic fairness rules of your discipline and 2) Defend your application! In life, there will always be those who will try to get you to violate plagiarism laws, ethical experimentation regulations, ethical patient conduct regulations, etc. You need to learn to deal with it now. And once you've established that you follow the rules, people will stop asking you to break them.

 

[enTropeeeeeeeee]

Recently, in one of my 400 level Bio classes, the class was relieved to hear that the professor was making the exam a take home exam, where exam questions would be answered in essay form. She proceeded to make a speech about people getting credit for the work they put in, and how people used to ask her for answers to questions she put her hard work in for in college, to which she said "why should other people reap the benefits of my work? if you assist someone in cheating on this exam you are also cheating".

A few days later - i've been contacted by five people asking for help on the 'hard' problem on the exam. Nobody can find the answer. The irony is that it's stated plainly in the book and nobody seems to do the readings.

I told the first person "dude, do the relevant readings..." but since then have just ignored everyone else.

Two questions:
1. Am I OK with what i said to person A? Feeling kind of paranoid
2. The other people asking me for help - they are people I study with, people going to my state med school next year, people I work in labs with in school. It's tough for me to just ignore them completely (don't want to be a dbag). Of course I will not cheat on the other hand. Your advice?

If these people were truly your friends, they would respect that you do not feel comfortable helping them on their take-home exam. In the situation that I asked a friend for help on a take-home exam, I would not be offended that they refused. In fact, I would feel ashamed to put them in such a tough situation. If they get mad at you, well they aren't your friends. Period.

 

[Malice]

I've been in this same position before. Just don't think of it as cheating. It's more like helping your fellow man. I mean when you're a doctor and someone comes to you with an illness, what are you gonna do? Tell them to man up and have their immune system do the work or are you going to help them and give them a prescription?

 

[ILikeDrugs]

Give them bad answers. After they receive their grade, they will never ask you for help ever again and will make them not trust anyone. They'll be more motivated to do their won work.

 

[apumic]

I've been in this same position before. Just don't think of it as cheating. It's more like helping your fellow man. I mean when you're a doctor and someone comes to you with an illness, what are you gonna do? Tell them to man up and have their immune system do the work or are you going to help them and give them a prescription?

I hope this was sarcasm and you have some ethics....


OP, I'd be honest w/ them. If they continue to harass you for answers, they're not your friends. Find new ones. Actually, if they asked you for answers on an exam to begin with, I'd go find new friends now. They're not going to last long.

 

[Danlee07]

you're asking a whole forum who are in the same boat as you... of course everyone's going to say hide your answers.

just tell the people up front that you don't deal with that junk and get lost. they'll clearly realize you don't like to cheat. whatever way you make this sound, nice or harsh, in the end, you will still be the guy who won't cheat or let anyone cheat off of... you might as well tell them bluntly and truthfully.

 

[Malice]

Do any of you have real friends? Friends are people you help no matter what. Honestly, this is for a class. For a grade. It's just a number. It means nothing. If this is how you treat your friends about something that matters as little as this, I can't imagine how you would "help" them when they have a real problem.

 

[LEUNIT]

Do any of you have real friends? Friends are people you help no matter what. Honestly, this is for a class. For a grade. It's just a number. It means nothing. If this is how you treat your friends about something that matters as little as this, I can't imagine how you would "help" them when they have a real problem.

You'd put your future at stake for a friend? If my friends were of any worth, they would never even think of asking me to throw my life away for something as trivial as a number.

Your post deserves a "Come on, man!"

 

[Astarael]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but teaching someone how to get the answer on their own is not the same as giving them the answer. You said that the answers are essay questions, and without more information, I have to assume that means that you need to understand the problem well in order to answer it. Under those circumstances, telling someone to read the book isn't cheating-you're not giving them the answer. You might be telling them how to get the answer for themselves, but still, that's different than saying something along the lines of, "Well, the answer is X."

 

[texahn]

i was about to write something trollish

 

[raltima07]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but teaching someone how to get the answer on their own is not the same as giving them the answer. You said that the answers are essay questions, and without more information, I have to assume that means that you need to understand the problem well in order to answer it. Under those circumstances, telling someone to read the book isn't cheating-you're not giving them the answer. You might be telling them how to get the answer for themselves, but still, that's different than saying something along the lines of, "Well, the answer is X."

Agreed - ask them to read the TB and then you can help them, not give them the answer

 

[orthomyxo]

Do any of you have real friends? Friends are people you help no matter what. Honestly, this is for a class. For a grade. It's just a number. It means nothing. If this is how you treat your friends about something that matters as little as this, I can't imagine how you would "help" them when they have a real problem.

This. Just help them for ****s sake. Nobody says you need to be a saint if you want to be a doctor.

 

[BenjaminT]

Two questions:
1. Am I OK with what i said to person A? Feeling kind of paranoid
2. The other people asking me for help - they are people I study with, people going to my state med school next year, people I work in labs with in school. It's tough for me to just ignore them completely (don't want to be a dbag). Of course I will not cheat on the other hand. Your advice?

What you said to person A is fine, it's not cheating to say, "go read your damn book."

You shouldn't ignore your friends. I disagree with many of the other posters here. People who ask you for help are not necessarily cheating, leaching scumbags. With that being said, if you feel like they are trying to ride off of the gravy train that is your massive intellect, just tell them where to find the answers, in the damn book and stop bothering you.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Other than the fact that it's a bigger part of your grade, I don't see how this scenario is any different from a friend asking you to help him with his homework. You don't have to straight give away the answer to help someone learn. After a few years at SDN, it doesn't surprise me how many people in here have told you not to help and to get new friends, but it sure as hell is disappointing.

 

[getright]

I would just tell them that I don't know the answer.

 

[fishsticks2629]

Honestly, this is for a class. For a grade. It's just a number. It means nothing.

+1

The other ppl just need to relax and make some friends.. Who cares if you help point people in the right direction? Its not like you are helping them cheat on the USMLE or a test that really matters.

 

[eli20]

I think what you did was perfect. Great option between "get new friends" and "cheat more". The amount of people arguing that you should cheat for friends is shocking. Especially since people here are planning on going into a field with so many ethical questions. You gave them a sufficient hint.

I've been in the same situation and acted similarly. Don't know about your school but mine has an honor code that is taken pretty seriously by students.

 

[motomed]

if you feel what they are asking you to do isn't right, then just say "no, i don't think that's the right thing to do." If there's some way you can offer them help that you would feel perfectly comfortable with the prof knowing about, go ahead and do it.

those of you advocating for drawing a little line of integrity in the sand really don't understand integrity much at all. if you can't do the right thing when **** doesn't really matter, why on earth do you think you'll be capable of doing the right thing when it does actually matter?

 

[Negrodamus]

You've already cheated by talking about it with the other student. What moral or technical difference does it make to give them the right answer now?

 

[apumic]

Pointing them back to the book is one thing. Telling them "look on page 546 and write down figure 6-2 for the drawing on question 3" is completely different. I agree that helping someone (in a general sense) is a good thing; however, giving specific advice about a given question is most likely a direct violation of your school's academic integrity policy. If you can't follow ethical rules now, what makes you think you've got it in you to do so in 10 yrs? Stuff like this is going to keep coming up throughout life. How you deal with a minor issue now speaks to how you'll deal with similar (but more major) ones in the future.

 

[Spin]

There's nothing wrong with telling your friends that you don't feel comfortable working on the exam together. No one that I know judges anyone else for saying things like this, and if they do, they're not really your friends.

That said, I would tell everyone what you told the first guy, and then say that that's all the help they're gonna get from you because you really don't feel comfortable working on exams together. Just stay consistent. Don't give them any more help later on take-home exams, and don't ask them for help later if you want to continue to not give it, otherwise you'll look like a hypocrite (or even worse, someone who will eventually help if they nag the heck out of you).

 

[SilverBvllet]

The most important rule in life is to do things to further your goals and to make yourself happy; not to make OTHER people happy. With the former attitude you will go far. With the latter attitude you're basically living the life as other people's doormat, taking crap and stress for problems that are not yours. Let me take you on a journey...

Let's consider the worst case scenario. You help your lazy leecher friends and they get caught. They turn you in. You're screwed. You get academic dishonesty put on your conduct record. You struggle answering this red flag during interviews. You do not go to med school. You are now flipping burgers. You have deep regret...if only you could relive your life and just told your cheating friends to f off. You sob...tears dripping on the grill. It sizzles and evaporates like your dreams just did.

You look up with teary eyes. You're actually not flipping burgers. You're sitting in your chair in your room. Reading SDN. You realize what an obvious question you posted. Your friends come back and try to get your answers again. This time you know better. With renewed confidence you say, "sorry, we're not allowed to work together on this exam. I'd really love to help, but the prof says this is not allowed."

If they say "if you were REALLY our friend you'd help us." You say "If you were really MY friend you wouldn't be putting me in this situation right now." Then you walk off into the sunset.

 

[enTropeeeeeeeee]

The most important rule in life is to do things to further your goals and to make yourself happy; not to make OTHER people happy. With the former attitude you will go far. With the latter attitude you're basically living the life as other people's doormat, taking crap and stress for problems that are not yours. Let me take you on a journey...

Let's consider the worst case scenario. You help your lazy leecher friends and they get caught. They turn you in. You're screwed. You get academic dishonesty put on your conduct record. You struggle answering this red flag during interviews. You do not go to med school. You are now flipping burgers. You have deep regret...if only you could relive your life and just told your cheating friends to f off. You sob...tears dripping on the grill. It sizzles and evaporates like your dreams just did.

You look up with teary eyes. You're actually not flipping burgers. You're sitting in your chair in your room. Reading SDN. You realize what an obvious question you posted. Your friends come back and try to get your answers again. This time you know better. With renewed confidence you say, "sorry, we're not allowed to work together on this exam. I'd really love to help, but the prof says this is not allowed."

If they say "if you were REALLY our friend you'd help us." You say "If you were really MY friend you wouldn't be putting me in this situation right now." Then you walk off into the sunset.

Beast post.

 

[g2daizh]

Some of these posts are pretty silly. I agree with the poster who said its not different than helping them on their homework. Its in essay format, so I'm assuming you cant just "tell them the answer".

If I was you I'd tell them what page its stated clearly on, and if they need clarification on certain details, I'd help them out. No one is asking to copy your essay, so everyone should quit acting like they are. They're having trouble understanding a problem. I don't see whats wrong with clarifying issues on it.

The ultimate goal of education is to spread knowledge, not to prove how much smarter you are than everyone else. God forbid you ever have trouble on a problem in the future.

 

[eli20]

The difference is it's a test, although that difference doesn't matter. If a professor clearly lays out what collaboration is and isn't allowed than you have no room to rationalize your cheating. Cheat all you want, but recognize what you're doing for what it is.

 

[g2daizh]

The difference is it's a test, although that difference doesn't matter. If a professor clearly lays out what collaboration is and isn't allowed than you have no room to rationalize your cheating. Cheat all you want, but recognize what you're doing for what it is.

IDK what his teacher said about what is considered cheating and what isn't. All they said was how they should get credit for the work the put in. It doesn't seem to me like his friends are trying to get by without doing any work, they're having trouble understanding a concept.

A lot of people throw around the "cheating" word a little too much.

 

[eli20]

Actually it sounds like they can't answer a question because they haven't done the readings. It usually is hard to understand concepts you haven't engaged with at all.

And really there are just as many in this thread who are apologetic to cheating as there are who call it out.

 

[g2daizh]

Actually it sounds like they can't answer a question because they haven't done the readings. It usually is hard to understand concepts you haven't engaged with at all.

And really there are just as many in this thread who are apologetic to cheating as there are who call it out.

I'm under the assumption that they've done the readings after hearing his first advice. I said he should tell them to read, and if they are still having trouble, help them understand it. He's not giving them the answer, he's giving them the ability to look at the problem a different way, so that they can understand it.

And there that word is again. Giving others the answer = cheating. Helping close friends understand concepts and questions != cheating.

 

[AsianPersuasion]

that happens to me all the time in school, apparently being asian they think you have all the answer. I just say to them "well this is the answer, but im not sure if their right.." usually they back off after I say that.

again, these people are my friend so I don't wanna be like "NO" but alot of the time I just say do your own work and walk away. lol

 

[eli20]

I agree with helping friends understand concepts but really this should happen before an exam You couldn't stop and explain a concept during a class room test and you shouldn't do it just because something is take home either. It all really depends on the guidelines given.

 

[Astarael]

This entire thread is the reason why I think take home exams are ridiculous-there's no transparency in what is considered academic honesty vs. dishonesty. The assumption with an in-class test is that you have already learned the concepts by the time you get there, but the assumption with a take home test has to be that you get the points for the concepts that you are willing to do the work to understand. If the class is allowed time to do the test and is allowed to use the book, then all the exam is testing is your ability to learn a concept and either apply it or regurgitate it in different words. Given that the textbook is allowed, it doesn't make sense that other resources should be off limits, including a classmate. The OP definitely shouldn't give others the answer, but telling them to look in the book is just reiterating what they should already know on their own. And trying to explain a concept is just teaching. Not everyone understands things the way that a professor or an author does, and if the OP were to explain a concept in simpler terms, who cares? The exam is testing what you are capable of understanding by the time that it is due, not what you already know, so as long as the OP isn't doing another person's work for them, it isn't cheating.

 

[g2daizh]

This entire thread is the reason why I think take home exams are ridiculous-there's no transparency in what is considered academic honesty vs. dishonesty. The assumption with an in-class test is that you have already learned the concepts by the time you get there, but the assumption with a take home test has to be that you get the points for the concepts that you are willing to do the work to understand. If the class is allowed time to do the test and is allowed to use the book, then all the exam is testing is your ability to learn a concept and either apply it or regurgitate it in different words. Given that the textbook is allowed, it doesn't make sense that other resources should be off limits, including a classmate. The OP definitely shouldn't give others the answer, but telling them to look in the book is just reiterating what they should already know on their own. And trying to explain a concept is just teaching. Not everyone understands things the way that a professor or an author does, and if the OP were to explain a concept in simpler terms, who cares? The exam is testing what you are capable of understanding by the time that it is due, not what you already know, so as long as the OP isn't doing another person's work for them, it isn't cheating.

👍 sentiments exactly. If the teacher doesn't want any outside communication, they shouldn't give a take home test. And if having someone else explain a concept to you is cheating, using google to get more information on something is as well.

 

[Lil Mick]

Do not do it. I've caught people doing this in the classes I've taught. Someone does it every semester. Don't do it. We don't like people cheating, and we will punish everyone associated with cheating... Just how it is in academia. And that will be on your permanent record when you apply to grad/med school. Don't.

 

[ISUBird100]

For one of my upper level psych classes, we were given take home exams. Our professor wanted us to work together and collaborate! She said something along the lines that that's how grad students/professors work; they collaborate and get ideas off of one another. Now, while we did collaborate and get the main points down, none of us copied verbatim off of one another. We figured out the main points, then we each elaborated on the answers in our own words.

With that being said, every professor has different policies on that kind of stuff, so you should read the syllabus to see what it says. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with collaborating on getting some of the main points down, but if they want you to give them the entire answer and/or look at your exam, that's completely different. Just my opinion, though!

 

[circulus vitios]

Other than the fact that it's a bigger part of your grade, I don't see how this scenario is any different from a friend asking you to help him with his homework. You don't have to straight give away the answer to help someone learn. After a few years at SDN, it doesn't surprise me how many people in here have told you not to help and to get new friends, but it sure as hell is disappointing.

Exactly what I wanted to say. SDN = a bunch of Melvins.

 

[Poliscidoc]

Help them and make a few bucks for yourself

 

[YouNeverKnow22]

Other than the fact that it's a bigger part of your grade, I don't see how this scenario is any different from a friend asking you to help him with his homework. You don't have to straight give away the answer to help someone learn. After a few years at SDN, it doesn't surprise me how many people in here have told you not to help and to get new friends, but it sure as hell is disappointing.

👍👍👍

 

[Malice]

If you aren't cheating, you aren't giving it 100%.

In reality, the field of medicine is fundamentally based on cheating. Our purpose is to exploit loopholes in the human body to effect positive change. By not dabbling in cheating during your undergrad, you are depriving yourself of an important learning experience that can teach you to think in different ways and refine your mind. By not cheating, you are only cheating yourself.

 

[eli20]

If you aren't cheating, you aren't giving it 100%.

In reality, the field of medicine is fundamentally based on cheating. Our purpose is to exploit loopholes in the human body to effect positive change. By not dabbling in cheating during your undergrad, you are depriving yourself of an important learning experience that can teach you to think in different ways and refine your mind. By not cheating, you are only cheating yourself.

Don't waste this gold on SDN, put it in your PS 🙂

 

[Malice]

I brought it up in interviews, too. They were happy to learn that not only was I proficient at cheating, but also that I don't get caught. Unless you're lucky enough to get one of those academic integrity violations, there's just no way the adcoms can find out if you are prepared for medicine or not.

 

[ilovelanguages]

Alright guys I responded promptly after posting this thread so i only had the first few responses - i went with the cop out as suggested by Overmjnd. [i stated i haven't started yet] As suggested by someone else, they have all continued to contact me. One girl was asking "can you just tell me the answer really quick when u get it", which made it really easy for me to say "can i just tell you the answer to an exam problem? are you serious?" in a "you crazy" way that didn't make me come off too anal.

Other people are contacting me. I'm going to send them a message saying something like "ten people are asking me for help and i just want to stay out of it", but i'm not finding the right words. 🙁

 

[HK35]

give them the wrong answer...curve booster.. and than be like *shrug* i thought i had it right...

 

[apumic]

Alright guys I responded promptly after posting this thread so i only had the first few responses - i went with the cop out as suggested by Overmjnd. [i stated i haven't started yet] As suggested by someone else, they have all continued to contact me. One girl was asking "can you just tell me the answer really quick when u get it", which made it really easy for me to say "can i just tell you the answer to an exam problem? are you serious?" in a "you crazy" way that didn't make me come off too anal.

Other people are contacting me. I'm going to send them a message saying something like "ten people are asking me for help and i just want to stay out of it", but i'm not finding the right words. 🙁

Com'on, man. Think through consequences before you act. Of course people will continue to hound them if you imply you'll them later (i.e., once you know the answer). You need to be open with them and tell them if you are or are not going to help them.

 

[wanderer]

Other than the fact that it's a bigger part of your grade, I don't see how this scenario is any different from a friend asking you to help him with his homework. You don't have to straight give away the answer to help someone learn. After a few years at SDN, it doesn't surprise me how many people in here have told you not to help and to get new friends, but it sure as hell is disappointing.

👍

 

[ilovelanguages]

Com'on, man. Think through consequences before you act. Of course people will continue to hound them if you imply you'll them later (i.e., once you know the answer). You need to be open with them and tell them if you are or are not going to help them.

Yeah i certainly didn't think it through before i reacted that first time - the cop out seemed like the easy thing at the time and i wanted to react and get it over with. a couple close friends are suggesting the "ignore everyone" method. i wish i didn't have to deal with this so i could focus more on my other exams...

 

[apumic]

Yeah i certainly didn't think it through before i reacted that first time - the cop out seemed like the easy thing at the time and i wanted to react and get it over with. a couple close friends are suggesting the "ignore everyone" method. i wish i didn't have to deal with this so i could focus more on my other exams...

Honestly, if you would have just said "No, sorry. I can't help you cheat," and left it at that, they probably would have left you alone. It's a lot easier to stand on your principles 100% and stay away from the grey zone than it is to live in the gray. (Of course, oftentimes there is not black and white but with something like a take-home test, it really is quite black and white: no working with others unless the instructor explicitly states otherwise; at least that's how the honor code has read at every university I've attended.)

 

[SilverBvllet]

One girl was asking "can you just tell me the answer really quick when u get it"

This has confirmed what I assumed all along: your "friends" are lazy freeloaders/leeches.

Grab your balls (figuratively) and the next time they ask you just be like, "no, I can't help you. And stop asking, it's getting really annoying. Seriously I'd rather smash my face against a rock than hear you ask me again."

Also if you need confidence just refer to my BEAST POST a few posts above. And as for the advice people are giving saying it's "not a big deal." Guess what OP, this isn't their life we're talking about. They are anonymous people on a forum and if something DOES go wrong you are the only one to suffer the consequences. Think about it, do what's best for yourself. The power of indifference to what other people think is invaluable.