How to determine which program is the "best," and does it even matter?

[CatsFan]

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As decision making time approaches, I'm wondering if anyone can give me a little advice. Earlier this year, I had a family member tell me that "I had to go to the best program I got into." I know there are so many factors that go into this decision, and research match is a big one. I guess my question for anyone who is already in a graduate program is, how big of a factor was the program's reputation in your decision making? Did you go to the best program you got into? Would you still make the same decision now? Also, how much does your program's reputation matter for things like internship, post-doc, and eventually finding a job? I'm trying to decide between two schools that are both good, fully-funded Ph.D. programs, but neither of them are "brand name" schools that everyone would recognize. At one of the interviews, a professor called the school a "B+" university. Coming from a top 20 undergrad university, I'm probably thinking about this way more than I should be. Any advice would be appreciated 🙂!

 

[DynamicDidactic]

It depends on what you are most interested in. If it is clinical practice then look over match rates and EPPP pass rates. I have attached EPPP pass rates documents. Look at match rates, particular APA match rates.

If it is academia, you will want someone who is actively publishing and getting grants (this is what search committees will care about a)whether you publish b) whether you can bring in money). All things being equal reputation may make a difference but I doubt that everything will be equal.

 

[ClinicalABA]

It depends on what you are most interested in. If it is clinical practice then look over match rates and EPPP pass rates. I have attached EPPP pass rates documents. Look at match rates, particular APA match rates.

If it is academia, you will want someone who is actively publishing and getting grants (this is what search committees will care about a)whether you publish b) whether you can bring in money). All things being equal reputation may make a difference but I doubt that everything will be equal.

In general order of importance (IMHO, of course)

• Full funding guaranteed up to going on internship
• average time to completion around 6 years
• Good internship match rates
• Boulder model Ph.D. program
• Cohort <10
• Mentor model
• University based (ideally a bigger univ., as this generally means more resources for training, clinical work, and research)
• Good match between you and your mentor
• Mentor who is well know in research area and has many contacts (look for pubs with researchers from other schools). The reputation of your mentor is more important than that of your school.
• Good reputation of program in area you want to study (note that there is often not much correspondence between rep. of undergrad and rep. of grad programs, at least where clinical psych is concerned.
• Good overall reputation of program (somewhere in top 50)
• Good quality/quantity/variety of practicum options
• Located in a place that you won't be miserable living in for 4-5 years.

 

[lava12345]

In general order of importance (IMHO, of course)

• Full funding guaranteed up to going on internship
• average time to completion around 6 years
• Good internship match rates
• Boulder model Ph.D. program
• Cohort <10
• Mentor model
• University based (ideally a bigger univ., as this generally means more resources for training, clinical work, and research)
• Good match between you and your mentor
• Mentor who is well know in research area and has many contacts (look for pubs with researchers from other schools). The reputation of your mentor is more important than that of your school.
• Good reputation of program in area you want to study (note that there is often not much correspondence between rep. of undergrad and rep. of grad programs, at least where clinical psych is concerned.
• Good overall reputation of program (somewhere in top 50)
• Good quality/quantity/variety of practicum options
• Located in a place that you won't be miserable living in for 4-5 years.

This times a thousand!

I would not listen to your family in regards to what is a "name brand" school, especially if they are not in the field. Many state universities that have lower reputations as undergrad institutions are powerhouses in research. Also, many of the fancy liberal arts private schools that 18 year olds obsess over going to don't even have doctoral programs.

 

[PsychPhDone]

I only applied to fully-funded programs that had at least 2 potential mentor matches. I then chose the program where I felt like I had the best mentor/program-wide fit. There were a few places where I loved the mentor but not the program as a while, and vice versa. Luckily, there were 2 programs where I liked both, and I picked the one that felt right in my gut. 🙂

 

[CatsFan]

In general order of importance (IMHO, of course)

• Full funding guaranteed up to going on internship
• average time to completion around 6 years
• Good internship match rates
• Boulder model Ph.D. program
• Cohort <10
• Mentor model
• University based (ideally a bigger univ., as this generally means more resources for training, clinical work, and research)
• Good match between you and your mentor
• Mentor who is well know in research area and has many contacts (look for pubs with researchers from other schools). The reputation of your mentor is more important than that of your school.
• Good reputation of program in area you want to study (note that there is often not much correspondence between rep. of undergrad and rep. of grad programs, at least where clinical psych is concerned.
• Good overall reputation of program (somewhere in top 50)
• Good quality/quantity/variety of practicum options
• Located in a place that you won't be miserable living in for 4-5 years.

Thanks for the responses! I have a question about the program rankings. Are you referring to U.S. News & World Report? Because the methodology for those rankings doesn't seem all that great to me...from what I can tell, they just had faculty from universities around the country rank programs on a 1-5 scale, based on their feelings about the program's quality. What do you think of that? The two programs I'm trying to decide between are pretty close in rank, around 70-80 on U.S. News. Is it terrible that they're not top 50?

 

[busybusybusy]

Thanks for the responses! I have a question about the program rankings. Are you referring to U.S. News & World Report? Because the methodology for those rankings doesn't seem all that great to me...from what I can tell, they just had faculty from universities around the country rank programs on a 1-5 scale, based on their feelings about the program's quality. What do you think of that? The two programs I'm trying to decide between are pretty close in rank, around 70-80 on U.S. News. Is it terrible that they're not top 50?

No it's not bad. It's really more about who you're studying under and what they can do for you.

 

[lava12345]

Thanks for the responses! I have a question about the program rankings. Are you referring to U.S. News & World Report? Because the methodology for those rankings doesn't seem all that great to me...from what I can tell, they just had faculty from universities around the country rank programs on a 1-5 scale, based on their feelings about the program's quality. What do you think of that? The two programs I'm trying to decide between are pretty close in rank, around 70-80 on U.S. News. Is it terrible that they're not top 50?

I honestly would not even look at the US News and World Report. I think it is completely useless in ranking clinical psychology graduate programs. As mentioned before, look at the student admissions/outcome information on the programs' websites.

Some suggestions of things to look up:
1) Internship match rate to APA accredited internships only (ignore non-accredited statistics). This is big!!!
2) Practicum opportunitities
3) Current research productivity of your potential mentor. They may have done alot of research in the past, but if they are now DCT or department head, it may be less currently.
4) Look at how many publications students coming out of that lab have/the quality of those publications (look up impact factors for journals)
5) Opportunities to do your own research (example, do all the students work only on the POI's large grant, or do they formulate their own projects/get training grants?)

 

[syzergy]

If you're looking at numbers you can also look up a POI's h-index. It looks at citations and publications and assigns a number based on productivity and impact. The higher number, the better. Obviously, don't use this as your only method to make a decision as someone who is super productive but a new faculty may not have a high number. I learned about h-indexes when I went on interviews this year. I had never heard of them before.
http://code.google.com/p/citations-gadget/

It might be helpful to also ask someone at your undergrad university. I can make decisions based on my impressions of the school, faculty, and students but I'm just getting into the field and obviously don't know as much as someone who has been around for years. I talked to my undergrad mentor (a tenured faculty) and she helped me figure out which schools would be the best options to achieve my goals.

 

[wigflip]

I learned about h-indexes when I went on interviews this year. I had never heard of them before.
http://code.google.com/p/citations-gadget/

I just tried this link and, while I'm grateful for its inclusion here, I'm not sure it's really operating properly. My highly productive advisor only has four articles cited? No, I know that's not true. For me, it's showing that I only have 1 article cited, which I'd believe if it was a different article which I know has been cited! But of course that one's not showing up as having been cited. 🙁

Also, be sure to put in the person's institutional affiliation, otherwise you will get ridiculous numbers as they combine every Jeffery Jones or whoever you're looking up (initially, before I put in my institution, I had 68 publications and 2117 cites--if only!).

 

[paramour]

I just tried this link and, while I'm grateful for its inclusion here, I'm not sure it's really operating properly. My highly productive advisor only has four articles cited? No, I know that's not true. For me, it's showing that I only have 1 article cited, which I'd believe if it was a different article which I know has been cited! But of course that one's not showing up as having been cited. 🙁

Also, be sure to put in the person's institutional affiliation, otherwise you will get ridiculous numbers as they combine every Jeffery Jones or whoever you're looking up (initially, before I put in my institution, I had 68 publications and 2117 cites--if only!).

Sshhh! If I type in my name, I am super-awesome! 😛 You just burst my bubble. 🙁

 

[syzergy]

Haha ok so maybe it's not very reliable. But it is fun to play with!

 

[PsychMode]

Actually this isn't that bad if your searches are refined. I only have six, in-print publications, but they were all there. It helps if you use it like Google, putting quotation marks around your institutional affiliation and, for some users, your name and other search terms.

Admittedly, there seems to be a lot wrong with the h index, based on the little that I read on Wikipedia. But it's really cool to have some sort of guage, even if it's flawed.

 

[wigflip]

Actually this isn't that bad if your searches are refined. I only have six, in-print publications, but they were all there. It helps if you use it like Google, putting quotation marks around your institutional affiliation and, for some users, your name and other search terms.

Admittedly, there seems to be a lot wrong with the h index, based on the little that I read on Wikipedia. But it's really cool to have some sort of guage, even if it's flawed.

huh. maybe I'm just a techno-clunker. were all your pubs journal articles? the first time i did it, it only picked up one pub, the second time, three. both times it missed a book chapter (peer-reviewed) and a review essay (plus assorted other gobbledgook which I didn't expect to see there).

 

[Sanman]

Reading the OP,

I think the question is what do you want to do? Are you interested in academic or academic clinical positions. If you only want clinical positions and less in the way of research in the future, tremendous pressure to publish can lead to burnout and less time for externships. If you want more of an academic career, make sure that you are in a place that can allow you to publish. In the end, whichever program is a better fit will likely be the better prpgram for your career goals.

 

[PsychMode]

huh. maybe I'm just a techno-clunker. were all your pubs journal articles? the first time i did it, it only picked up one pub, the second time, three. both times it missed a book chapter (peer-reviewed) and a review essay (plus assorted other gobbledgook which I didn't expect to see there).

Yes, they were all peer-reviewed journal articles. Perhaps, as you suggest, some things are more search-able (in Google Scholar) than others...