How to get into medical school from someone who did it

[yanky5]

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I'm a second yr at NYCOM and I decided to throw you pre-DO's a rope and teach you what I learned in going through the admissions process:

How to achieve the maximum success rate for acceptance (from one guy's perspective):

1. Apply Early

2. Achieve a high GPA at all costs even if it means majoring in a garbage subject. It used to be that really hard science majors were a step up from other applicants in applying to medical school. I thought this was still the case and was proven wrong. It is not worth dropping your GPA and working your ass off if most Medical schools do not care (which they don't) and would pass you over for a psycology major with a 3.9 GPA. Take the required pre med courses and achieve that high GPA by not being tempted to take those really difficult calculous advanced chemistry and biochemistry corses.

3. Apply to as many schools as possible (MD and DO) and UNDERestimate yourself. According to my experience, the pre med books that list the avg GPAs and MCAT scores of applicants to different schools were much lower than they actually were (personally I think by 2 MCAT pts and 0.2 GPA). In other words, apply to the majority of schools BELOW your level. Don't bother applying to more than a few long shots. From my experience those friends who only applied to schools "on their level" did not get in anywhere.

4. Do well on the MCAT and volunteer in a hospital or something (duh). DO applicants apparently have a plus if they do shaddowing or something

5. If you are doing lousy and want to send out your application to more schools, do so even if you are the last one applying to that school. There is still hope and it is never too late. I got in to the last school I applied to.

6. Figure out what you are going to do if you have to reapply for the next cycle so you won't go crazy if you didn't get accepted

7. The interview means crap. How well you did at the interview has nothing to do with an acceptance Trust me on this one. I had six interviews. The interview's sole purpose is to weed out crazy people and to cover up the underhanded tactics that go on at some schools. They have already decided if you are accepted before you were interviewed. [You'll see I am not crazy when you yourself go through the process and discover it for yourself]

 

[Megalofyia]

2. Achieve a high GPA at all costs even if it means majoring in a garbage subject. It used to be that really hard science majors were a step up from other applicants in applying to medical school. I thought this was still the case and was proven wrong. It is not worth dropping your GPA and working your ass off if most Medical schools do not care (which they don't) and would pass you over for a psycology major with a 3.9 GPA. Take the required pre med courses and achieve that high GPA by not being tempted to take those really difficult calculous advanced chemistry and biochemistry corses.

This is one of the biggest things I stress when I talk to high school students who want to become doctors. I wish I had realized HOW much this would affect my application. The med schools I applied to didn't seem to care that I'd taken all the hardest math or chemistry classes. They only wanted to know the numbers.
Also unless your going to an ivy league school they dont care which school you got your degree from. While the schools may not want to see you did all your courses at a jr college, if you find out that a local CC has organic chemistry and it's easier than the school your at take it at the CC. (Caveat - make sure the credits transfer to your university for your degree purposes)
Bottom line: Its all about the GPA

5. If you are doing lousy and want to send out your application to more schools, do so even if you are the last one applying to that school. There is still hope and it is never too late. I got in to the last school I applied to.

I didn't send in the primary for the school I go to till late Decemeber. While being early is very important you cant say it's over till it is over.

6. Figure out what you are going to do if you have to reapply for the next cycle so you won't go crazy if you didn't get accepted

Dont be shy to talk to the admissions directors - do keep in mind that many are like politicians and take what they say with a grain of salt. However endearing yoruself to them is not going to hurt in any way.

7. The interview means crap. How well you did at the interview has nothing to do with an acceptance Trust me on this one. I had six interviews. The interview's sole purpose is to weed out crazy people and to cover up the underhanded tactics that go on at some schools. They have already decided if you are accepted before you were interviewed. [You'll see I am not crazy when you yourself go through the process and discover it for yourself]

I found this to be true at many schools.

However, be nice at the interview. Dont assume that the students have no influence with admissions.

 

[toothless rufus]

I have heard about the weed-out thing before. Do a lot of crazy people actually apply to med school? What are their underhanded admissions tactics? How do you know the interview is BS? I would love to know what's really going on. It's kind of a letdown though if true.

 

[cee]

2. Achieve a high GPA at all costs even if it means majoring in a garbage subject.

sad, but true. in retrospect, i wish i would have gone to Florida State, partied with some ridiculously hot chicks, saved money going to a public school, and majored in Basket Weaving-- knocking out the prereqs over the summer, when no one was in town and when I could have concentrated. then again, hindsight is always 20/20

 

[cee]

I have heard about the weed-out thing before. Do a lot of crazy people actually apply to med school? What are their underhanded admissions tactics? How do you know the interview is BS? I would love to know what's really going on. It's kind of a letdown though if true.

yea yanky5, could you expand on this? i'm trying to prepare myself for cold shoulders at interviews

 

[SensAsian]

I'd also like to know why you think interviews are only to filter out the nutjobs and is this for all medical schools or just osteopathic ones?

 

[It'sElectric]

I personally disagree with yanky5's opinion on the interview being completely useless. While the committee definitely has an idea of whether they're thinking of accepting you before the interview, I would never say that it has already been decided. A great or terrible interview can either positively or negatively affect the entire outcome. Thus, the interview clearly does matter.

I just want to make sure that everyone reading this thread doesn't take the interview lightly. It is very important, so treat it as such.

 

[jonb12997]

2. Achieve a high GPA at all costs even if it means majoring in a garbage subject. It used to be that really hard science majors were a step up from other applicants in applying to medical school. I thought this was still the case and was proven wrong. It is not worth dropping your GPA and working your ass off if most Medical schools do not care (which they don't) and would pass you over for a psycology major with a 3.9 GPA. Take the required pre med courses and achieve that high GPA by not being tempted to take those really difficult calculous advanced chemistry and biochemistry corses.

GREAT stuff! It's great to see people that have been through it add in some thoughts. Overall, I couldn't agree more with what you said. Just to give another opinion on the GPA issue, I would like to add a few thoughts though that I helped with some interviewing last year and I did look at the types of courses and the grades they got when I was making my admissions recommendation. (which played a very crucial role in the decision of the committee). accomas does give a big sheet that lists all the courses in the order you took them and the grades you got. So if you're taking all "easy" intro courses that you pull A's in, and then your few science pre-med courses are all by themselves and you only get B's and C's, I'm going to look a little less favorably on this.

Basically, what I'm saying, is from my standpoint at the school I go to, you need to make sure that you show the admissions committee not only that you can get a good GPA, but that you can do it with courses that are academically rigourous. i.e. prove to me that you can succeed in medical school. However, some people did a post-bac pre-med course and took like all their required science courses in like 12 months and pulled all A's and B's. I'm not going to be as concerned with the undergrad GPA, this would show me that they can do medical school...

Also, with the interview. Basically it's just about getting to know you. Can you communicate in a live person-to-person discussion is really what I'm trying to get out of it. Once you've got an interview, if you're fairly normal and be yourself, you should get in.

Great advice. We need more stuff like this on here. Thanks yanky and everyone else for the advice!

 

[theraball]

I personally disagree with yanky5's opinion on the interview being completely useless. While the committee definitely has an idea of whether they're thinking of accepting you before the interview, I would never say that it has already been decided. A great or terrible interview can either positively or negatively affect the entire outcome. Thus, the interview clearly does matter.

I just want to make sure that everyone reading this thread doesn't take the interview lightly. It is very important, so treat it as such.

Yes. There are about 149 medical/osteopathic schools in the U.S. and each one is unique. You can't simply assume that all schools behave the same. At some schools, the interview is make-or-break, and at other schools it seems to be a mere formality.

People, especially premeds, are extremely clever about putting their best foot forward and getting into highly competitive programs even if they're not really qualified or appropriate for the profession. Many if not most candidates seem incredibly well qualified ON PAPER but once you meet them in person you may very well say (of a tiny minority, I hope), "I'd never want this weirdo for my doctor!" or "I'd never want this creep touching me on the examination table!"

Obviously the system isn't perfect because some questionable people do get in and make it all the way through, but it would be foolish to become cavalier about the interview process. I would advise taking the interview very seriously. Learn something about the school, call up some graduates and talk to them, and go in prepared.

 

[yanky5]

yea yanky5, could you expand on this? i'm trying to prepare myself for cold shoulders at interviews

I am not a prophet so I can't say exactly what the schools are doing without actually sitting on their committe. I was just able to sense that something funny was going on based on several experiences. 1). I had a very high avg. and MCAT but did not even get an interview to most low tier schools I applied too (got interview in 6/34 MD schools I applied to 1/2 DO schools and I applied low). 2). I got an interview in downstate and the interviewer outright told me I was accepted to the school but I was not accepted. 3) My family actually knows someone on the Einstein medical committe and he told me that their school favors ivy leage or private college applicants over public universities and the interview is basically meaningless (seriously) 4) I did well on all my interviews but that did not help. In fact, the one where I thought I messed up (I told the guy that I like to throw knives as a hobby when he asked me "tell me something unique about yourself that I could remember you by over all the other applicants") I got in to that school. Go figure. 5) Well, the process is just messed up based on the randomness factor. Someone in my college with a lower GPA and MCAT was interviewed a few weeks earlier in a certain medical school and they got accepted.

Oh, and I think that DO schools are far less corrupt than MD schools but I am biased since I am in a DO school. Lol

 

[Kuba]

I am not a prophet so I can't say exactly what the schools are doing without actually sitting on their committe. I was just able to sense that something funny was going on based on several experiences. 1). I had a very high avg. and MCAT but did not even get an interview to most low tier schools I applied too (got interview in 6/34 MD schools I applied to 1/2 DO schools and I applied low). 2). I got an interview in downstate and the interviewer outright told me I was accepted to the school but I was not accepted. 3) My family actually knows someone on the Einstein medical committe and he told me that their school favors ivy leage or private college applicants over public universities and the interview is basically meaningless (seriously) 4) I did well on all my interviews but that did not help. In fact, the one where I thought I messed up (I told the guy that I like to throw knives as a hobby when he asked me "tell me something unique about yourself that I could remember you by over all the other applicants") I got in to that school. Go figure. 5) Well, the process is just messed up based on the randomness factor. Someone in my college with a lower GPA and MCAT was interviewed a few weeks earlier in a certain medical school and they got accepted.

Oh, and I think that DO schools are far less corrupt than MD schools but I am biased since I am in a DO school. Lol

I don't see how that supports your claim that interviews are meaningless. IF that was the case, wouldn't your higher numbers get in over your friend with lower numbers?😕

 

[cee]

I am not a prophet so I can't say exactly what the schools are doing without actually sitting on their committe. I was just able to sense that something funny was going on based on several experiences. 1). I had a very high avg. and MCAT but did not even get an interview to most low tier schools I applied too (got interview in 6/34 MD schools I applied to 1/2 DO schools and I applied low). 2). I got an interview in downstate and the interviewer outright told me I was accepted to the school but I was not accepted. 3) My family actually knows someone on the Einstein medical committe and he told me that their school favors ivy leage or private college applicants over public universities and the interview is basically meaningless (seriously) 4) I did well on all my interviews but that did not help. In fact, the one where I thought I messed up (I told the guy that I like to throw knives as a hobby when he asked me "tell me something unique about yourself that I could remember you by over all the other applicants") I got in to that school. Go figure. 5) Well, the process is just messed up based on the randomness factor. Someone in my college with a lower GPA and MCAT was interviewed a few weeks earlier in a certain medical school and they got accepted.

Oh, and I think that DO schools are far less corrupt than MD schools but I am biased since I am in a DO school. Lol

thanks for the response, yanky. i kind of had that sort of feeling about admissions committees based on the wide spectrum of schools and the somewhat random interviews i've been getting (albeit, i am VERY grateful for). however, this process seems more like admissions are casting for the Real World or handing out bids to their fraternity/sorority rather than sticking with a specific profile. I don't disagree with what they're doing, i think its great to ensure diversity in our classes, but it kind of comes at a surprise to me. Regardless, i'm taking my interview seriously, but i appreciate your down-to-earth opinion on the matter

 

[cee]

I don't see how that supports your claim that interviews are meaningless. IF that was the case, wouldn't your higher numbers get in over your friend with lower numbers?😕

i think yanky is more of trying to say that the admissions' opinion is more of, "well, you made it this far.. just dont screw it up"

 

[Cali2006]

So what exactly does all of this mean? Is the "underhandedness" that they interview you knowing that they are not going to accept you?? Does having an interview early in the process mean anything? I was told that interviews between August-November are on the early side, which I thought was a good sign. Anyway, let me know if you have answers. I am a little concerned now.

 

[GwinnettPreMed]

sad, but true. in retrospect, i wish i would have gone to Florida State, partied with some ridiculously hot chicks, saved money going to a public school, and majored in Basket Weaving-- knocking out the prereqs over the summer, when no one was in town and when I could have concentrated. then again, hindsight is always 20/20

I went to Florida State...wanna compare MCAT scores? Wouldn't exactly be apples-to-apples since I worked FT instead of getting my money from Mommy and Daddy, but I'm pretty sure I'd still win. Whaddya think - they just give out A's for showing up to class and not puking all over everything? Fla State's had 5 nobel laureates in Chem, Medicine, Physics. How many at Emory?...none that I could find.

Those ridiculously hot chicks...I'm thinkin' they wouldn't have had a whole lot to do with you. A tool is a tool is a tool, in Tallahassee or Atlanta.

Why don't you keep your opinions to yourself until you have a clue what you're talking about, pr*ck?

 

[Oculus Sinistra]

I went to Florida State...wanna compare MCAT scores? Wouldn't exactly be apples-to-apples since I worked FT instead of getting my money from Mommy and Daddy, but I'm pretty sure I'd still win. Whaddya think - they just give out A's for showing up to class and not puking all over everything? Fla State's had 5 nobel laureates in Chem, Medicine, Physics. How many at Emory?...none that I could find.

Those ridiculously hot chicks...I'm thinkin' they wouldn't have had a whole lot to do with you. A tool is a tool is a tool, in Tallahassee or Atlanta.

Why don't you keep your opinions to yourself until you have a clue what you're talking about, pr*ck?

Uhhh calm down. Cee wasn't insulting Florida State... just saying that they wish s/he HAD gone there and done that -- not that everyone goes there and does that.

 

[GwinnettPreMed]

Uhhh calm down. Cee wasn't insulting Florida State... just saying that they wish s/he HAD gone there and done that -- not that everyone goes there and does that.

Oh bullsh&t...if s/he were trying to say "I should have chosen an easy major and partied my way through school", then that's what s/he would have said. Cee read some ******ed "party school rankings" and repeated the ASSumption that there were no academic standards at Fla St. This perception affects me when I apply to medical schools and I have the right to challenge/correct it. Yes, it was a fun place to go to school, but that does not mean that standards didn't exist.

If cee wants to be an elitist, let her/him do it on the basis of personal, quantifiable merits...GPA...MCAT...volunteer hours...I don't care, but it can be done without denigrating/devaluing my education.

 

[Oculus Sinistra]

Oh bullsh&t...if s/he were trying to say "I should have chosen an easy major and partied my way through school", then that's what s/he would have said. Cee read some ******ed "party school rankings" and repeated the ASSumption that there were no academic standards at Fla St. This perception affects me when I apply to medical schools and I have the right to challenge/correct it. Yes, it was a fun place to go to school, but that does not mean that standards didn't exist.

If cee wants to be an elitist, let her/him do it on the basis of personal, quantifiable merits...GPA...MCAT...volunteer hours...I don't care, but it can be done without denigrating/devaluing my education.

Seriously.

You're making the assumption that cee said Florida State because it was a "lower school", not because it costs less than a private school. Regardless of rankings, the fact remains that it still COSTS LESS. Lots of people from Florida go to schools like Yale then come back after a year and say they'd rather get their education at a place like FSU or FAU where the material is roughly the same but at a fraction of the cost.

And yes, I'm assuming that's what cee meant, but I'm going to step out of this now and let him/her answer it.

 

[MiesVanDerMom]

Oh bullsh&t...if s/he were trying to say "I should have chosen an easy major and partied my way through school", then that's what s/he would have said. Cee read some ******ed "party school rankings" and repeated the ASSumption that there were no academic standards at Fla St. This perception affects me when I apply to medical schools and I have the right to challenge/correct it. Yes, it was a fun place to go to school, but that does not mean that standards didn't exist.

If cee wants to be an elitist, let her/him do it on the basis of personal, quantifiable merits...GPA...MCAT...volunteer hours...I don't care, but it can be done without denigrating/devaluing my education.

make sure you speak this way with your "******" patients. now who's being the elitist e-hole??

an ya know what? I went to a private elite type college for 2 years and then my state school for 2 years and there is a difference. I'm as anti-elitist as they come, but I'm sick of people acting like every school is equally difficult. reality check. I don't anything about this florida school you went to, but in general on SDN this bothers me.

 

[scpod]

Also, with the interview. Basically it's just about getting to know you. Can you communicate in a live person-to-person discussion is really what I'm trying to get out of it. Once you've got an interview, if you're fairly normal and be yourself, you should get in.

Ummm...that's a little naive, I think. Schools have like 800 interviews and give 300 acceptances to fill 150 spots. Where do you come up with that? If you really expect people to believe that the interview is just a formality and the "normal" people get in, then you're gonna see a lot of dissapointed pre-meds.

I keep hearing this argument that people say, "I did really well on that interview and didn't get in, but poorly on the other interview and got in." That's their basis for thinking interviews don't matter, but it's wrong. The fact that an interview went smoothly and you all had a good time does NOT mean it went well. You could laugh and joke and have a wonderful time during the interview, but that might NOT be what the interviewer is looking for. They look for a lot more than just to see if you are personable and can speak in complete sentences.

 

[MossPoh]

I went to Florida State...wanna compare MCAT scores? Wouldn't exactly be apples-to-apples since I worked FT instead of getting my money from Mommy and Daddy, but I'm pretty sure I'd still win. Whaddya think - they just give out A's for showing up to class and not puking all over everything? Fla State's had 5 nobel laureates in Chem, Medicine, Physics. How many at Emory?

Simmer down man. It wasn't ment to be a knock for one thing. Second, nobel laureates does not equal harder classes or earned grades. Third, yes there are some ridiculously easy majors at FSU just like about any other college where it is easy to get high marks...I've had friends transfer from one state school to FSU and all of a sudden they went from all Cs to a 3.9...I am not saying it was the school but rather the fact he changed from Engineering to Sociology that PROBABLY ment the change. If I'm going to knock FSU on one thing..it'll be losing to clemson and not having a rushing offense. Maybe I'll see you at the UF/FSU game......I intend to cheer for you guys but I'm not doing that stupid indian chant deal.

 

[cee]

I went to Florida State...wanna compare MCAT scores? Wouldn't exactly be apples-to-apples since I worked FT instead of getting my money from Mommy and Daddy, but I'm pretty sure I'd still win. Whaddya think - they just give out A's for showing up to class and not puking all over everything? Fla State's had 5 nobel laureates in Chem, Medicine, Physics. How many at Emory?...none that I could find.

Those ridiculously hot chicks...I'm thinkin' they wouldn't have had a whole lot to do with you. A tool is a tool is a tool, in Tallahassee or Atlanta.

Why don't you keep your opinions to yourself until you have a clue what you're talking about, pr*ck?

slow your roll, homie. if i offended you, i'm sorry. i think you're mistaken a bit. i was never putting down FSU. but at FSU (like ANY other public school), there are definitely a lot more majors (some easy) to pick from (i could have said UF/USF/UCF, etc). yes, i could have mentioned emory as well, but FSU is public, which means i wouldnt be in as much debt as i am in now. and no, i didn't read some rankings, i actually had a lot of friends at FSU that i visited and loved it over there (moreso than UF, but i'm not going to get in a bashfest). it's a great school, in retrospect i wish i would have gone there. but everything happens for a reason, i dont regret my college decision.

i think it's mentalities like these that propogate the "elitist" mentality of undergrad rankings. people tend to have chips on their shoulders about their school. for instance, i can tell GwinnettPreMed did his/her research on me, utilizing the search button to find which school i went to for undergrad. it shows that a misconception really got in his/her head, to the point where he/she wanted to craft up a cutdown so precisely. well to each his own, because i have a chip on my shoulder about paying out the ass for my education. 🙄

i dont think GwinnettPreMed will be responding after this. i think he/she was just trying to rattle the cage a bit.

 

[GwinnettPreMed]

make sure you speak this way with your "******" patients. now who's being the elitist e-hole??

an ya know what? I went to a private elite type college for 2 years and then my state school for 2 years and there is a difference. I'm as anti-elitist as they come, but I'm sick of people acting like every school is equally difficult. reality check. I don't anything about this florida school you went to, but in general on SDN this bothers me.

Well if I ever treat the people who publish those rankings I'll be sure to tell them what I think of their actions. Expressing an opinion about something someone does is judgmental, not elitist.

Yes there's a difference. And Emory, where cee did undergrad, is a fine school (based on rankings and working with a couple of their grads). That doesn't give him carte blanche to imply that he could have gone to my alma mater, "partied with hot chicks" the whole time, and left with a high GPA. I don't think that's accurate. If he has some evidence to the contrary, let him produce it. People in this field read these boards and form opinions, and if statements like cee's go unchallenged, over time they become "true". If he wants to criticize my school by name, I want him to back that criticism up.

After sleeping on it, though, perhaps the other poster was correct that cee's point was just that a state school was a bargain comparatively and he didn't gain as much as he'd hoped by attending Emory. I'll wait to see if he responds before making any further judgments.

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

I disagree with the weight you guys put on gpa.


MCAT>GPA.

 

[Kuba]

I disagree with the weight you guys put on gpa.


MCAT>GPA.

I wish this to be true, but it seems it is not. I am a good case study to determine that though.

 

[GwinnettPreMed]

slow your roll, homie. if i offended you, i'm sorry. i think you're mistaken a bit. i was never putting down FSU. but at FSU (like ANY other public school), there are definitely a lot more majors (some easy) to pick from (i could have said UF/USF/UCF, etc). yes, i could have mentioned emory as well, but FSU is public, which means i wouldnt be in as much debt as i am in now. and no, i didn't read some rankings, i actually had a lot of friends at FSU that i visited and loved it over there (moreso than UF, but i'm not going to get in a bashfest). it's a great school, in retrospect i wish i would have gone there. but everything happens for a reason, i dont regret my college decision.

i think it's mentalities like these that propogate the "elitist" mentality of undergrad rankings. people tend to have chips on their shoulders about their school. for instance, i can tell GwinnettPreMed did his/her research on me, utilizing the search button to find which school i went to for undergrad. it shows that a misconception really got in his/her head, to the point where he/she wanted to craft up a cutdown so precisely. well to each his own, because i have a chip on my shoulder about paying out the ass for my education. 🙄

i dont think GwinnettPreMed will be responding after this. i think he/she was just trying to rattle the cage a bit.

Cee, didn't see your post until after I responded to the other one. Completely understand now...sorry to get hot under the collar. Guess I've heard "Oh, that's a party school" one too many times...😳 Thanks for clarifying, and best of luck with apps.

 

[630670]

Great advice, I'm not too sure about the interviewing thing. I have heard that the school already knows who it's going to accept before the interview....but I'm hoping (for my sanity) that interviewing will increase my chances of getting in

 

[LINYKid]

Seriously.

You're making the assumption that cee said Florida State because it was a "lower school", not because it costs less than a private school. Regardless of rankings, the fact remains that it still COSTS LESS. Lots of people from Florida go to schools like Yale then come back after a year and say they'd rather get their education at a place like FSU or FAU where the material is roughly the same but at a fraction of the cost.

And yes, I'm assuming that's what cee meant, but I'm going to step out of this now and let him/her answer it.

I tend to disagree with you on that one. I think FSU is a good school and any school has a party facor to it or some easy majors but schools are wat yu make of it. You can major in ceramics or biochem theres a big difference regardless if the schooll is party school or not.
And if kids from ivies are transfering to FSU I think there is a multititude of reasons, maybe some financial espcially if they are planning on going to grad school but I really dont see an influx of ivy league kids from Florida ditching there respective schools to go to FSU, cmon.

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

I wish this to be true, but it seems it is not. I am a good case study to determine that though.

was for me. any of these suggestions are more or less anectdotal.

 

[Kuba]

was for me. any of these suggestions are more or less anectdotal.

yea, well i would say it is almost certainly not true for DMU, based on my experience and looking over MDapps.

 

[MiesVanDerMom]

Well if I ever treat the people who publish those rankings I'll be sure to tell them what I think of their actions. Expressing an opinion about something someone does is judgmental, not elitist.

Yes there's a difference. And Emory, where cee did undergrad, is a fine school (based on rankings and working with a couple of their grads). That doesn't give him carte blanche to imply that he could have gone to my alma mater, "partied with hot chicks" the whole time, and left with a high GPA. I don't think that's accurate. If he has some evidence to the contrary, let him produce it. People in this field read these boards and form opinions, and if statements like cee's go unchallenged, over time they become "true". If he wants to criticize my school by name, I want him to back that criticism up.

After sleeping on it, though, perhaps the other poster was correct that cee's point was just that a state school was a bargain comparatively and he didn't gain as much as he'd hoped by attending Emory. I'll wait to see if he responds before making any further judgments.

i was criticizing your use of the term "******ed". you shouldn't use it pejoritively like that considering you will one day work with mentally disabled patients who deserve your respect. my son is ******ed so it is my goal to kick the a$$ of every future doctor who speaks this way. See the quote in my sig please.