How to handle applying to grad school at the same time as medical school?

[DeadCactus]

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So given the unfortunate realities of my gpa (low 3s) and research experience (will be at 1 year and 1 summer by the fall of my app year), I'm faced with the unfortunate fact that there is a good chance I will not make it into a med school, let alone an MD/PhD.

While thinking about what to do if I don't make it, I've identified several programs/labs I would love to pursue a Master's in before trying another go at applications. I've been advised by my academic counselor to identify individuals I'd like to work under to get my MS and contact them. I'm now in a bit of a dilemma.

Clearly, from the viewpoint of personal interest, the best route is to never mention Medical School at all and to make it seem like the only thing I want to do is work under that individual. This seems dishonest though, and goes against what I believe is the right course of action.

Complicating the situation is that one or more of the individuals I'd love to work under know professors that I know relatively well. It's reasonable that I could have a good word put in for me, but it seems like backing out after that would make not only myself look bad, but the person who recommended me.

Would I really be shooting myself in the foot (or more accurately blowing off my leg), by clearly expressing that while my primary goal at the moment is to get into Medical School (since it is the major hurdle to being a physician-scientist), I am still very genuinely interested in pursuing a Master's under them?

Thank you for any input you can offer.

 

[solitude]

So given the unfortunate realities of my gpa (low 3s) and research experience (will be at 1 year and 1 summer by the fall of my app year), I'm faced with the unfortunate fact that there is a good chance I will not make it into a med school, let alone an MD/PhD.

While thinking about what to do if I don't make it, I've identified several programs/labs I would love to pursue a Master's in before trying another go at applications. I've been advised by my academic counselor to identify individuals I'd like to work under to get my MS and contact them. I'm now in a bit of a dilemma.

Clearly, from the viewpoint of personal interest, the best route is to never mention Medical School at all and to make it seem like the only thing I want to do is work under that individual. This seems dishonest though, and goes against what I believe is the right course of action.

Complicating the situation is that one or more of the individuals I'd love to work under know professors that I know relatively well. It's reasonable that I could have a good word put in for me, but it seems like backing out after that would make not only myself look bad, but the person who recommended me.

Would I really be shooting myself in the foot (or more accurately blowing off my leg), by clearly expressing that while my primary goal at the moment is to get into Medical School (since it is the major hurdle to being a physician-scientist), I am still very genuinely interested in pursuing a Master's under them?

Thank you for any input you can offer.

Delicate situation. I disagree that it would be "dishonest" (read: ethically impermissible) to not mention your applications to medical school. You are not ethically obligated to bring this fact up. Certainly if they ask you whether you're applying to graduate programs other than MS programs, etc., then you should answer honestly. But this type of thing is not likely to come up. I think I could have been simultaneously applying for all sorts of things and my interviewers would never have guessed that I was doing anything other than MSTP applications. It just doesn't often come up. The way I look at it is that they have two options: accept you, or accept somebody else instead. They certainly aren't going to be upfront with that information until they've made a decision. Similarly, you have two options: accept their program, or accept something else instead. There's no reason why you have to be upfront with that information either, until you've made a decision. Bottom line (of course, my opinion): it's not dishonest to withhold information from them if they don't prompt you for it.

Obviously the situation really gets delicate when you factor in the professors as references. I think you should be upfront with the professors: tell them what your situation is, and ask them whether they would be willing to put in a good word for you nonetheless. It's hard to predict what they'll say - especially whether they are willing to withhold the fact that you're simultaneously applying to medical school - but that seems like the right thing to do.

My understanding about MS programs is that they're not extremely hard to get into (because you pay your own way), so it shouldn't be impossible for you to get in. On the other hand, I do think you would be shooting yourself in the foot/blowing off your leg by volunteering that information in your application/interviews. Maybe your best bet is to apply to MS programs but if your professors aren't willing to recommend you without revealing your dual application to med school, then just forgo their recommendations and apply anyways?

I'm also curious as to why you want to do the MS. My personal advice - and I know you didn't ask - would be to just work as a tech for a year or more, while applying to med school. You get paid, work good hours, and if your PI is nice you can function as a grad student (i.e., get the same benefit for MSTP admissions that you would with the MS, in my estimation). Then if you don't get into med school on the first round or two, you can just apply to PhD programs, do the PhD and then apply to med school again. I know that sounds terribly onerous, but that's effectively what you're setting yourself up for by starting the MS in case med school doesn't pan out. I think that's probably the best option: after a couple years you'll have some money in the bank and 3+ years of research experience (perhaps some classes on the side to raise your GPA?) that will allow you to easily sell yourself to an MSTP, in case you don't get in on the first try.

 

[DeadCactus]

Thank you for the input. I am definately concidering simply working in a lab rather than being a student, but I wanted to explore the possibility of doing a Master's.

As for the dishonesty thing, my dillema is not so much in telling a University I want to pursue a Master's there, but telling specific PIs I would like to work in their labs as Master's students.

Simply applying to a University, it would seem like part of playing the game; but by directly approaching a PI, it seems like more of a commitment.

 

[QofQuimica]

Are you 100% set on completing the MS, or are you planning to bail halfway through if and when you can get a med school acceptance? If it's the former, I can't imagine any PI being upset about that. You tell him/her straight up that you're here to get your MS, you get your MS, and then you go to med school. You can apply during your last year of grad school; that's what I did while I was working on my PhD. If it's the latter, then yeah, that would be a pretty lousy thing for you to do, and you'd probably burn yourself some bridges in the process. So don't do it. An MS can be completed in two years. There's no reason why you couldn't wait one more year and finish what you started. You would get some research experience and a good research letter from your PI, and maybe even a pub while you're at it. Or, you could do the tech route like solitude suggested if you don't really want to get the MS. Either route (tech or full MS) would be reasonable; just don't go into an MS program knowing from the getgo that you don't intend to finish it.

 

[gbwillner]

Would I really be shooting myself in the foot (or more accurately blowing off my leg), by clearly expressing that while my primary goal at the moment is to get into Medical School (since it is the major hurdle to being a physician-scientist), I am still very genuinely interested in pursuing a Master's under them?

That doesn't sound very genuine... So I would say yes.

Getting a Master's isn't going to help you get into medical school, as far as I know. Maybe a Ph.D. will, assuming you make good connections at the place you'd like to train.

IMHO, it just isn't worth it to go through all this just for a chance of getting into medical school.

 

[DeadCactus]

I would definately intend to finish the MS program before beginning Medical School.

I do not want the MS to boost my medical school application. I do hope that the time spent (both in terms of graduate courses and research as well as extracurriculars) will result in an improved application, but as has been poitned out most of these ends could be met through more financially beneficial means.

My desire to work towards a Master's is related to wanting to improve my competetiveness for PhD programs (and just possibly shaving off some time) and employment in the fields that interest me as well as personal interest.

The way I am looking at it right now, I can either take two years and count on having something in hand at the end or spend one year and possibly find myself with only rejections but less debt.

It's a tough choice, but that choice is a bit off-topic to the question at hand which is how I should act if I decide on this option...

 

[gbwillner]

I would definately intend to finish the MS program before beginning Medical School.

I do not want the MS to boost my medical school application. I do hope that the time spent (both in terms of graduate courses and research as well as extracurriculars) will result in an improved application, but as has been poitned out most of these ends could be met through more financially beneficial means.

My desire to work towards a Master's is related to wanting to improve my competetiveness for PhD programs (and just possibly shaving off some time) and employment in the fields that interest me as well as personal interest.

The way I am looking at it right now, I can either take two years and count on having something in hand at the end or spend one year and possibly find myself with only rejections but less debt.

It's a tough choice, but that choice is a bit off-topic to the question at hand which is how I should act if I decide on this option...

??? Why not just apply for PhD programs? They are not very competitive. Even at the top places.

 

[DeadCactus]

A Master's program gives me two years to do work relevant to both getting into Med School and a career as a PhD researcher. I feel that after two years and a second or third round of apps, I will be in a good position to reevaluate my situation.

One of the main issues is there is a bit of a divergence in the research I would want to do as a pure PhD and what I would want to do as a physician scientist. It also seems that the middle of a PhD program is a worse place to apply to medical school than the end of a master's program.

I'm open to reasons to apply to a PhD program, though.

Also, thank you again everyone for the input. I appreciate all the feedback and the chance to sound off my thoughts and get advice here. It's a wonderful asset, especially in a world where most people look at you like your crazy if you express interest in doing something like an MD/PhD...

 

[gbwillner]

A Master's program gives me two years to do work relevant to both getting into Med School and a career as a PhD researcher. I feel that after two years and a second or third round of apps, I will be in a good position to reevaluate my situation.

One of the main issues is there is a bit of a divergence in the research I would want to do as a pure PhD and what I would want to do as a physician scientist. It also seems that the middle of a PhD program is a worse place to apply to medical school than the end of a master's program.

I'm open to reasons to apply to a PhD program, though.

Also, thank you again everyone for the input. I appreciate all the feedback and the chance to sound off my thoughts and get advice here. It's a wonderful asset, especially in a world where most people look at you like your crazy if you express interest in doing something like an MD/PhD...

Unless you plan on doing the MD/PhD in the same place you to your masters, your degree won't really A)help you get into med school or b)count towards your PhD. So basically you would be wasting 2 years. If you start a PhD, those extra years you would have wasted on a masters would have gotten you perhaps half-way through (if you are lucky); and having a PhD WOULD potentially help you get into med school.

Look, you need to get serious about what you want to do. A lot of what you write makes it seem that your priority is really getting into med school, not doing research. If this is so, then there are better ways of doing this than the masters. If this is NOT true, and you want the MD/PhD, then I don't understand why you wouldn't do the PhD since it is one of your goals.