how to improve my app?

[rngrl12]

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To make a long story short I'm a senior in bioengineering. The school I go to is year round and has 3 mandatory internships. Given this I haven't had summers off etc to pick up activities. I have also recently (ie 3 months ago) decided to pursue medical school.

Here's what I have so far:

-4 months at medical device company
-4 months at logistic engineering company
-~400 hours working as a CNA between senior year of HS and college
-~20 hours shadowing (OBGYN, Pediatric Surgeon, Orthopedic Surgeon)
-~20 hours volunteering at a hospital

I will be continuing the shadowing and the hospital volunteering. How many hours of each should I shoot for before I submit my AMCAS application?

I plan on picking up:
-volunteering as a big sister in big brother/big sister
-research in a lab

I am planning on getting my master's of engineering and continuing my volunteering/shadowing and research to round out my application. I'm taking the MCAT April 23. If I apply to AMCAS in June I should have somewhere around these hours:

-4 months logistic engineering
-4 months medical device engineering
- ~400 hours as CNA
- ~40 hours shadowing
- ~50/60 hours volunteering at the hospital
- ~40 hours volunteering as big sister
- ~600 hours in research lab (I'll be working there full time next semester)

What else can I do to improve the EC of my app? I have a lower gpa (3.4) with an upward trend so I want to make sure everything else on my app gives them a reason to say "YES "and overlook the GPA.

 

[Turkishking]

More clinical volunteering wouldn't hurt. That seems like it's lower than cookie cutter status.

 

[rngrl12]

I'm planning on continuing all of the volunteering, shadowing, and research through out the year so if I have to reapply for in 2017 my app will have improvement. My hesitation with picking up more hours is that I don't want it to affect my school. Currently I do one 4 hours shift at the hospital a week.

 

[WedgeDawg]

I think your projected hours will be okay, though I'm concerned about your GPA and your current lack of an MCAT. I think your decision to apply this upcoming cycle should be dependent upon your MCAT score. If you aren't hitting your target scores on practice tests, void your MCAT or don't take it and retake it at a later date and apply in 2017. With medical school admissions, you want to ideally apply once and put your strongest foot forward. Don't apply with a half completed app and less than ideal stats if you can help it. Here are the paths you should follow depending on your MCAT score:

1. You aren't hitting your target score on practice tests --> Take the MCAT at a later date and apply in 2017 while improving your app with more volunteering and research

2. You take your MCAT and get a subpar score (below 512) --> Do some postbac work while improving the rest of your app and apply in 2017

3. You take your MCAT and get a good score (512-517) --> Apply earliest possible 2016 and work on your app throughout the next year just in case you have to reapply in 2017

4. You take your MCAT and get a high score (518+) --> Apply earliest possible 2016

 

[rngrl12]

@WedgeDawg I've been told to shoot for a 512 and with that I should be able to get in my state school. My program has sent every kid we'vee who has wanted to go to med school to med school. I am not the first 3.3/3.4 that has wanted to go. The consensus is to kill the MCAT, do master's, and get involved in research. If I can't score where I need to on the MCAT I'll definitely wait. No sense rushing it but I'm hoping I'll get what I want. We'll see 🙂 thank you for the input

 

[WedgeDawg]

512 is not "killing" the MCAT, but it will probably be "okay". What state are you a resident of?

 

[rngrl12]

Kentucky. My program has a decent link with the med school so I'm hoping that coupled with a good master's gpa will get me in

 

[GrapesofRath]

Kentucky is one of the "luckier" states you'll find in the country. Having said that, the 10th percentile GPA's are right around the 3.4/3.3 range. While you still have a shot, you're starting to push it with your current GPA. Anything above 510 on the MCAT is ok, the biggest issue will be ace this year to at least have some kind of upward trend and be above a 3.4 when you apply.

 

[Turkishking]

Kentucky is one of the "luckier" states you'll find in the country. Having said that, the 10th percentile GPA's are right around the 3.4/3.3 range. While you still have a shot, you're starting to push it with your current GPA. Anything above 510 on the MCAT is ok, the biggest issue will be ace this year to at least have some kind of upward trend and be above a 3.4 when you apply.

What about New York?

 

[WedgeDawg]

What about New York?

New York is one of the least lucky states because most of the schools are either highly competitive or have an extremely high number of applicants.

 

[Turkishking]

New York is one of the least lucky states because most of the schools are either highly competitive or have an extremely high number of applicants.

So if I can get in any of my choices here, does that mean I have to go OOS? But then don't OOS schools favor in state applicants?

 

[WedgeDawg]

So if I can get in any of my choices here, does that mean I have to go OOS? But then don't OOS schools favor in state applicants?

Most state schools favor applicants from their own state. Most private schools do not. If you do not get into any NY state schools, there are a billion private OOS options for you to consider.

 

[GrapesofRath]

New York is one of the least lucky states because most of the schools are either highly competitive or have an extremely high number of applicants.

@Turkishking

https://www.aamc.org/download/321466/data/factstable5.pdf

This table can answer most of your questions. Pay attention to % of IS matriculants from a state. New York is around 29% which is a pretty solid number. The schools are competitive(and this number is going to get inflated by the Manhattan Titans) but there are far far worse states than NY. If your a pretty solid applicant NY is actually a good state because there are so many state programs.

 

[GrapesofRath]

So if I can get in any of my choices here, does that mean I have to go OOS? But then don't OOS schools favor in state applicants?

This table will give you a good idea as to which schools show real favoritism to IS and which don't. Obviously there are a good number that take alot of OOS applicants.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321442/data/factstable1.pdf

 

[WedgeDawg]

@Turkishking

https://www.aamc.org/download/321466/data/factstable5.pdf

This table can answer most of your questions. Pay attention to % of IS matriculants from a state. New York is around 29% which is a pretty solid number. The schools are competitive(and this number is going to get inflated by the Manhattan Titans) but there are far far worse states than NY. If your a pretty solid applicant NY is actually a good state because there are so many state programs.

I think for a lot of states, that's not a great chart to use. NY has the third highest number of applicants out of any state, surpassed only by Texas and California, meaning that although there are a lot of schools, your applicants:seat ratio might actually be lower than most other states, particularly if you're only looking at the state schools and ignoring the Manhattan 4, Rochester, and Einstein.

Additionally, the chart only shows where students matriculated, not where they were accepted. However, if you combine the matriculation stats with the "did not matriculate to any med school" (which can be used as a proxy for did not get accepted anywhere), it can help somewhat (though it's still incomplete). New York has 55.1% unmatriculated, which is decent (58.9% nationally, 53.9% for the northeast).

I think the second table that grapes posted is more useful in this situation.

 

[GrapesofRath]

I think for a lot of states, that's not a great chart to use. NY has the third highest number of applicants out of any state, surpassed only by Texas and California, meaning that although there are a lot of schools, your applicants:seat ratio might actually be lower than most other states, particularly if you're only looking at the state schools and ignoring the Manhattan 4, Rochester, and Einstein.

Additionally, the chart only shows where students matriculated, not where they were accepted. However, if you combine the matriculation stats with the "did not matriculate to any med school" (which can be used as a proxy for did not get accepted anywhere), it can help somewhat (though it's still incomplete). New York has 55.1% unmatriculated, which is decent (58.9% nationally, 53.9% for the northeast).

I think the second table that grapes posted is more useful in this situation.

Well we're looking at percentages not overall totals so the fact that NY has tons of applicants I don't think affects things as much with percentages/proportions.

The thing is it's not just state schools that show IS preference. Rochester or Einstein or NYMC or Albany can say whatever they want about zero IS preference, the proportion of applicants who get a II is far higher IS than OOS. I don't just chalk that up to the competition being that much higher in NY. This is the case for tons of states btw where there are schools with 35% or so IS matriculants despite proclaiming no IS bias. Some of them I know for a fact show some IS preference despite what they will proclaim publicly/on record. Obviously not all of them can use the argument "Oh our applicants are just much better IS".

For New York I think 29% of matriculants stayed IS, and 16% left the state. So overall, about 2/3 stay IS which is a solid number. It's not a perfect table but it's the best we really got. I would still consider NY a solid state overall. Now the thing here is that whether or not you are a resident of upstate vs around NYC I think affects things and that's not something you can obviously differentiate from that table.

 

[WedgeDawg]

Well we're looking at percentages not overall totals so the fact that NY has tons of applicants I don't think affects things as much with percentages/proportions.

The thing is it's not just state schools that show IS preference. Rochester or Einstein or NYMC or Albany can say whatever they want about zero IS preference, the proportion of applicants who get a II is far higher IS than OOS. I don't just chalk that up to the competition being that much higher in NY. This is the case for tons of states btw where there are schools with 35% or so IS matriculants despite proclaiming no IS bias. Some of them I know for a fact show some IS preference despite what they will proclaim publicly/on record. Obviously not all of them can use the argument "Oh our applicants are just much better IS".

For New York I think 29% of matriculants stayed IS, and 16% left the state. So overall, about 2/3 stay IS which is a solid number. It's not a perfect table but it's the best we really got. I would still consider NY a solid state overall. Now the thing here is that whether or not you are a resident of upstate vs around NYC I think affects things and that's not something you can obviously differentiate from that table.

Cornell has about 50% of matriculants come from NY state too, but again, we're talking matriculants, not acceptances, and it could be that people who might be choosing between NYMC and their state school will go to their state school. We just don't have enough information to give a definite answer.

Also I was reading that table wrong. I was under the impression that 29% of matriculating students matriculated in NY, but upon closer examination, that's 29% of applicants. It would be interesting to know average MCAT scores and GPA by state of residence, but I'm not sure that information is available.

I guess NY is not as bad as I originally thought, but I wouldn't call it one of the best. Maybe on the better side of average. The best seem to be a lot of southern/lower midwestern states.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Cornell has about 50% of matriculants come from NY state too, but again, we're talking matriculants, not acceptances, and it could be that people who might be choosing between NYMC and their state school will go to their state school. We just don't have enough information to give a definite answer.

Also I was reading that table wrong. I was under the impression that 29% of matriculating students matriculated in NY, but upon closer examination, that's 29% of applicants. It would be interesting to know average MCAT scores and GPA by state of residence, but I'm not sure that information is available.

I guess NY is not as bad as I originally thought, but I wouldn't call it one of the best. Maybe on the better side of average. The best seem to be a lot of southern/lower midwestern states.

It does in fact exist

https://www.aamc.org/download/321502/data/factstable21.pdf

New York matriculants on average had a 32 MCAT. I think that is in the top 20% of the country for all states. So yeah, the matriculants that get in are pretty good although the average GPA for New York matriculants I think is a hair below the national average for matriculants.

All in all I definitely wouldn't call New York the West Virginia of "lucky states". But I definitely wouldn't call it "one of the least lucky". Like you said "high average" sounds about right.

The best are the southern type states. WV, ND, SD, MS, ARK, AL, LA, KY come to mind immediately.

 

[WedgeDawg]

It does in fact exist

https://www.aamc.org/download/321502/data/factstable21.pdf

New York matriculants on average had a 32 MCAT. I think that is in the top 20% of the country for all states. So yeah, the matriculants that get in are pretty good although the average GPA for New York matriculants I think is a hair below the national average for matriculants.

All in all I definitely wouldn't call New York the West Virginia of "lucky states". But I definitely wouldn't call it "one of the least lucky". Like you said "high average" sounds about right.

The best are the southern type states. WV, ND, SD, MS, ARK, AL, LA, KY come to mind immediately.

Great chart! Though, I wish they gave us applicant medians rather than just matriculant medians. Oh well. Some of those medians are crazy high! Maine coming in #1 at 33.8 median, can you believe that? n only = 43 though lol. Massachusetts though, with 15x that number, has a median of 33.2 which is still insane. In the northeast region, no median is below 31.6.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Great chart! Though, I wish they gave us applicant medians rather than just matriculant medians. Oh well. Some of those medians are crazy high! Maine coming in #1 at 33.8 median, can you believe that? n only = 43 though lol. Massachusetts though, with 15x that number, has a median of 33.2 which is still insane. In the northeast region, no median is below 31.6.

Well we got that also here
https://www.aamc.org/download/321500/data/factstable20.pdf

Basically tells you the same thing, the best applicants come from the Northeast and California, to the surprise of absolutely nobody lol. The northeast goes hard man. It is kind of a joke though for how rich and populated that part of the country outside of New York there are maybe like 4 medical state schools in the entire northeast. As if northeast prices and cost of living weren't enough, tuition of all those schools is absolutely insane(Tufts is at over 60K!)

 

[WedgeDawg]

Well we got that also here
https://www.aamc.org/download/321500/data/factstable20.pdf

Basically tells you the same thing, the best applicants come from the Northeast and California, to the surprise of absolutely nobody lol. The northeast goes hard man. It is kind of a joke though for how rich and populated that part of the country outside of New York there are maybe like 4 medical state schools in the entire northeast. As if northeast prices and cost of living weren't enough, tuition of all those schools is absolutely insane(Tufts is at over 60K!)

I love how all this data exists lol.

And yes, no one is surprised by anything in there 😛

 

[rngrl12]

I'm in my last semester and I should have another decent semester. I've had an upward trend since my sophomore summer so for the past 2 years now. I can explain the low GPA though I know that doesn't make up for it. I'm going to stay for my master's and am getting a letter from one of my prof's who is very good friends with my school's SOM dean. My program has been able to send everyone who has wanted to go to med school including kids like me. I'm still planning on doing my best on the MCAT and continuing my volunteer activities. I know the GPA is hairy.