How to obtain a Ph-D? (specific questions)

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planetmillion

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Hi,

I have some questins about doing/getting a Ph-D, especially after getting a lot of mixed information when googling. The info I want to obtain is more specific, so I hope someone may help me, or give me another link if this forum doesn't help.

1. I heard, that one of the criteria to get accepted as a Ph-D is, that one needs to have written a couple of articles (research, etc). How many of them do I need to write during med-school to get a REAL chance of getting accepted? Is it more difficult to get a Ph-D in dermatology, than ex. in psychiatry, or is every direction equally competitive?
2. When writing those articles, is it better to write a few from different subject/areas, or do some research where I stick to one subject and delve into it properly?
3. I do prefer to do a Ph-D in a big city (like LA, for example), rather than a small town. Is it even harder to become accepted as a PH-D applicant there? What about 3rd world countries?
4. IMPORTANT about financing. I want to get a PAID Ph-D, so I don't need to put money into it, or some type of scholarship. Not speaking of a big salary, but enough to survive for.
5. I study in a European country, and heard, that in the US one can do a Ph-D already after having bachelor's degree (not possible in Europe). Is that true?
6. My dream is to become a dermatologist, but I can also imagine, that the competitiveness in doing a Ph-D in dermatology is immense. What if I do a Ph-D in ex. rheumatology or medical microbiology, or whatever else that is connected to medicine, but not directly to dermatology - does it also give me good chances to apply for becoming a dermatologist after doing the Ph-D?
7. Marks/grades from univeristy - how important are they really?
8. I'm 35 now, and may first consider doing a Ph-D after being done with studies, when I get closer to 40 - is age a difficulty factor?
9. Any other tips?
 
You are greatly misinformed. I will not bother explaining further if you can use google I'm sure you can figure this out. Hint: you need an MD or DO to become a dermatologist in the United States, a phd will not allow you to practice medicine or see patients.
 
You are greatly misinformed. I will not bother explaining further if you can use google I'm sure you can figure this out. Hint: you need an MD or DO to become a dermatologist in the United States, a phd will not allow you to practice medicine or see patients.

I guess I haven't expressed myself clearly enough. Of course, after being done with med school I need to do the intership & residency, and then apply for a specialised training, ex. for dermatology. However, the challenge is to get the specialised training place - there are many applicants, and few places. So to increase my chances, I though that it would be a good idea to do a Ph-d, before applying. I know it's not a specialisation in dermatology, but ex. some epidemiologic research, or lab-work, that is related to dermatology. When applying for a specialised program, it's a good idea to have a Ph-d (together with work experience, supervisers reports, etc). Or am I wrong? That's why I asked those questions.
 
Did streampaw move to Europe?
 
I guess I haven't expressed myself clearly enough. Of course, after being done with med school I need to do the intership & residency, and then apply for a specialised training, ex. for dermatology. However, the challenge is to get the specialised training place - there are many applicants, and few places. So to increase my chances, I though that it would be a good idea to do a Ph-d, before applying. I know it's not a specialisation in dermatology, but ex. some epidemiologic research, or lab-work, that is related to dermatology. When applying for a specialised program, it's a good idea to have a Ph-d (together with work experience, supervisers reports, etc). Or am I wrong? That's why I asked those questions.

To clarify: Are you an American or European citizen? Are you going to medical school in America or Europe? Both these factors make a big difference with applications for residency.

In America, you can get a PhD after your bachelors. There is no other way to get a PhD. That said, a PhD takes about 5-6 years to complete (unless it is part of a combined program together with your MD). It is not an easy process. It makes a difference in the residency application process but not a huge difference. The biggest factors are your medical school grades, USMLE scores (you need to take the step exams), medically related research experience, whether you went to med school in America, and letters of recommendation. Having a PhD helps quite a bit when applying to medical school but not that much when applying to residency.

Note: you cannot get a PhD in a medical field like dermatology or rheumatology. That's what an MD + residency is for. MD's and PhD's are separate in America and cover totally different fields. You can get a PhD in a field like biochemistry which is related to medicine but not clinical.

Long story short: I would not recommend getting a PhD. Practicing medicine or doing a residency in Europe for six years will help you more when applying to an American residency program than getting a PhD. Either way, it's an uphill battle because it is always difficult for foreign medical graduates to get into American residencies unless they are at the top of their class.
 
Thank you for your answer. I'm studying in Europe, and yes, things seem to be different here. Here, it's not possible to do a Ph-D after a bachelor's degree, but first when being done with studies.
It seems to be a huge challenge to find out all the things when not knowing the right people.
However, what I think of is, that if I don't get admitted to become a dermatologist (my marks have not been too good, unfortunately, compared to other students), I would prefer to keep my options of taking a second choice open, and one of them is some research work, ex. in a lab, for example with genetics or microbiology. Then a Ph-D would be good.
So I would greatly appreciate an answer to my questions if possible 🙂
 
I don't understand what you mean by not being able to do a PhD after a bachelor's. Does one need a PhD before they can start a PhD in Europe or what?
 
At some institutions you need a master's then you can get a PhD my school (also in Europe) fortunately has the option of doing an MD/PhD track
 
OP - sounds like you want to be a dermatologist (1st choice) with a fall back in doing dermatological research (2nd choice).

If you're currently in Europe, I recommend you apply to a MD/PhD program in the US. I don't know if there are MD/PhD programs that will take students from out of the country, but I'm sure you could look into that.

Now, to answer your questions (assuming those previous statements I made are true)

1. I heard, that one of the criteria to get accepted as a Ph-D is, that one needs to have written a couple of articles (research, etc). How many of them do I need to write during med-school to get a REAL chance of getting accepted? Is it more difficult to get a Ph-D in dermatology, than ex. in psychiatry, or is every direction equally competitive?

First off, getting a PhD in dermatology or psychiatry is impossible. You can get a PhD in something related (biochemistry and psychology, respectively). I'm not sure whether different PhD programs are differing in competitiveness. You could ask on the MD/PhD forum - http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forums/physician-scientist-md-phd-md-ms-dds-phd.32/


2. When writing those articles, is it better to write a few from different subject/areas, or do some research where I stick to one subject and delve into it properly?

Focus on one area of research IMO.

3. I do prefer to do a Ph-D in a big city (like LA, for example), rather than a small town. Is it even harder to become accepted as a PH-D applicant there? What about 3rd world countries?

I would imagine that PhD programs in large cities are generally harder to get into, especially in LA with the UC schools being generally well known academically. Is your 2nd question asking about doing a PhD in a 3rd world country? Why is that relevant?

4. IMPORTANT about financing. I want to get a PAID Ph-D, so I don't need to put money into it, or some type of scholarship. Not speaking of a big salary, but enough to survive for.

My understanding is that most PhD programs pay for your tuition and may have a small stipend. Not sure if there are PhD programs that charge tuition now.

5. I study in a European country, and heard, that in the US one can do a Ph-D already after having bachelor's degree (not possible in Europe). Is that true?

In the US, you can do a PhD after a bachelor's. You can also start a Masters and switch into a PhD program as you finish your masters. Multiple posters have tried to find out the path in Europe, but I don't think it's relevant to this discussion.

6. My dream is to become a dermatologist, but I can also imagine, that the competitiveness in doing a Ph-D in dermatology is immense. What if I do a Ph-D in ex. rheumatology or medical microbiology, or whatever else that is connected to medicine, but not directly to dermatology - does it also give me good chances to apply for becoming a dermatologist after doing the Ph-D?

In order to have a shot for a residency as a dermatologist, you would have to have an MD (or possibly a DO) from a US school. You would also have to do very well in school (grades + USMLE Step scores)

7. Marks/grades from univeristy - how important are they really?

Importance for what? They're important for getting into a PhD program. They will be less important for getting into a MD program after the PhD (if you decide to pursure it). They will be very important for getting into a combined MD/PhD program (if you go straight into it).

8. I'm 35 now, and may first consider doing a Ph-D after being done with studies, when I get closer to 40 - is age a difficulty factor?
PhDs alone are generally 5-6 year endeavors in the US. People have started medical school over the age of 40, so it is technically doable. I wouldn't want to do it, personally.

9. Any other tips?
If I were you, I would make a decision on whether I wanted to be a researcher or a practicing clinician. I think starting a PhD at 35+ just to get into medical school in the US is absolutely insane, but that's my personal opinion. If you feel that strongly about it, then go for it. First thing I would try is to see if you can get into a US MD or possibly post-bac program (basically a set of courses after getting a bachelor's to improve your GPA and get into a medical school.
 
Getting a PhD will ultimately delay starting and advancing your career as a physician and earning money. Can it help get a better residency position? Sure, in some cases. however, as previously mentioned there are far more important factors.

Attracted to the research? Even if you want to do nearly 100% research as an academic physician, you can do so without a PhD. Furthermore, if you balance your time well as a med student, you can complete several research projects. Just scan through the most recent 2 to 3 pages of posts on this forum, there are several testimonies of 4 year MD students publishing >10 articles during their time in med school.
 
You are in europe, i am pretty sure you can get a phd while doing a residency.
The best way to go about it, is choose an academic based residency with lots of opportunities, disclose your interest and apply for a doctorate position. You will have to do research and probably will make your residency longer. You dont really have to have previous papers published as long as your are willing to work, it will helps though.
 
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