How to talk about patient experiences in secondaries and PS without violating HIPPA?

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jmbacc57

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As long as patient name and personal information is not mentioned, would it be ok to talk about it?
Some secondary questions ask about about patient experience, while others just want to know what motivated me to pursue medicine. For me, the extraordinary patient encounters I have experienced have shaped my desire.
But, I don't want to be careless with this, so does someone have experience with this and can offer some advice?

@gyngyn @Goro
 
HIPAA prohibits the unauthorized use of identifiable patient information.
Any element of a case that could be used to identify the patient (very advanced age, extremely unusual medical condition) must be avoided. That said, pre-med patient stories do not usually make for compelling application fodder. It is not the patient's condition, but rather your own personal growth and development we are looking for. Only the faintest amount of context is needed, not the grisly paragraph of the patient's hardships.
 
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@gyngyn - if I say that "After immigrating, Mrs. Doe died due to coronary heart disease. She also had a history of smoking and diabetes." would that be bad? I don't talk about her that much. Maybe 2 sentences to provide background and where I first interacted with her.
 
HIPAA prohibits the unauthorized use of identifiable patient information.
Any element of a case that could be used to identify the patient (very advanced aged, extremely unusual medical condition) must be avoided. That said, patient interactions do not usually make for compelling application fodder. It is not the interaction, but rather your own personal growth and development we are looking for. Only the faintest amount of context is needed, not the grisly paragraph of the patient's hardships.

Thank you! My PS focuses a lot on patient interactions with a combination of providing a description of their hardships and my personal development. I thought it is a good approach since it shows that I'm attentive towards my patient's needs.
 
Thank you! My PS focuses a lot on patient interactions with a combination of providing a description of their hardships and my personal development. I thought it is a good approach since it shows that I'm attentive towards my patient's needs.
This isn't an easy way to show your own development. Mostly because the description uses up so much that there is little left for the latter. It can be done, though it requires a skillful writer. Very few pre-meds pull it off. It can seem self-conscious (like spectatoring).
 
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@gyngyn - if I say that "After immigrating, Mrs. Doe died due to coronary heart disease. She also had a history of smoking and diabetes." would that be bad? I don't talk about her that much. Maybe 2 sentences to provide background and where I first interacted with her.
It's not bad, but the less said about her, the better.
 
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@gyngyn - if I say that "After immigrating, Mrs. Doe died due to coronary heart disease. She also had a history of smoking and diabetes." would that be bad? I don't talk about her that much. Maybe 2 sentences to provide background and where I first interacted with her.

Extraneous. Cut the part about the smoking and diabetes at the very least, unless you are making some grand point about how you learned about how lifestyle risk factors translate to disease and it's motivated your interest in preventative health, which you have further explored doing research in ___, volunteering for a tobacco cessation helpline, getting involved in an exercise program for the overweight, mobilizing the elderly through involvement in ____ organization, etc etc

The problem is I don't see the point to the info you've shared so far, if the point was to tell me why you and why medicine and what you've done to support both questions to convince me you are matched to one another.

Thing is, when someone dies from CAD, if we're not the treating provider, we don't need the details on why. We have good knowledge on that and will guess family history, DM, cigs, high lipids/HTN, or obesity every single time. We don't need the background because statistically everyone dies of cardiovascular, cancer, or accidental causes for the most part.

What we don't know, is why this lady with CAD dying matters to YOU. Don't bring up a patient's hardships unless it can tell me something specific and compelling ABOUT YOU.
 
I'm
Extraneous. Cut the part about the smoking and diabetes at the very least, unless you are making some grand point about how you learned about how lifestyle risk factors translate to disease and it's motivated your interest in preventative health, which you have further explored doing research in ___, volunteering for a tobacco cessation helpline, getting involved in an exercise program for the overweight, mobilizing the elderly through involvement in ____ organization, etc etc

The problem is I don't see the point to the info you've shared so far, if the point was to tell me why you and why medicine and what you've done to support both questions to convince me you are matched to one another.

Thing is, when someone dies from CAD, if we're not the treating provider, we don't need the details on why. We have good knowledge on that and will guess family history, DM, cigs, high lipids/HTN, or obesity every single time. We don't need the background because statistically everyone dies of cardiovascular, cancer, or accidental causes for the most part.

What we don't know, is why this lady with CAD dying matters to YOU. Don't bring up a patient's hardships unless it can tell me something specific and compelling ABOUT YOU.

I'm doing exactly what's in bold haha. The main goal for me was to focus on all the health advocacy and prevention stuff I've done throughout undergrad. Do you think that's ok?
 
I'm


I'm doing exactly what's in bold haha. The main goal for me was to focus on all the health advocacy and prevention stuff I've done throughout undergrad. Do you think that's ok?

I think that's an excellent way of doing it. It makes your entire application more personable. It also creates a pretty good story if all your activities are related and geared towards one goal.
 
My personal statement for medical school and residency (as well as the personal statement I'm writing now for fellowship) all opened with a patient experience and tied my statement together. Personal statements tend to rattle off things that are already in your list of activities and get pretty dry if you don't include a story of some kind (whether personal or clinical). To avoid breaking HIPPA, you can use a different name in quotes, and I'd focus on either just general diagnosis ("8 year old with leukemia," "many chronic medical issues," etc) rather than talking too much about their course. I tended to focus on either the attending's actions/attitudes toward them and interactions with them and how that affected my desire to do medicine or on my direct interaction with the patient.
 
Mrs. Doe died due to coronary heart disease. She also had a history of smoking and diabetes.

I'm not sure this triad of smoking, diabetes, and coronary artery disease has ever been previously observed. This patient may be entirely unique in the medical literature. Would definitely avoid.
 
I'm not sure this triad of smoking, diabetes, and coronary artery disease has ever been previously observed.
Having shadowed a family medicine doctor, this made me laugh pretty hard. Thank you for that.

Edit: If the patient had hypertension as well, that would be extremely unique. Can you imagine any one patient having so many medical risk factors?
 
Having shadowed a family medicine doctor, this made me laugh pretty hard. Thank you for that.

Edit: If the patient had hypertension as well, that would be extremely unique. Can you imagine any one patient having so many medical risk factors?

:laugh::laugh:
 
HIPAA PHI also forbids many geographical identifiers, so you might want to avoid home country or the town/state they currently live in.
 
If the patient or their family were to read the essay, would they recognize themselves, not just someone like them?
That is a good question to ask yourself when retelling a story, BUT it is absolutely not the legal or ethical standard that you need to meet. The legal and ethical standard have to do with whether someone else can recognize the patient. The actual patient may well recognize their own story because of the confidential data that they are a party to, such as the things you said or did.

Another thing to consider is whether the patient would want that story told. On more than one occasion, a patient has told me they hope I get into medical school while thanking me. Ask yourself: would the patient want to help you in this way, by being mentioned anonymously? You are legally allowed to talk about patients who hate you (with sufficient anonymity), but on ethical grounds I think it is better to tell stories about patients who like you and would want to help you get accepted to medical school. On a similar note, a story about gout is less sensitive than a story about gonorrhea, although the legal test is the same.
 
changing a patients age gender and one or two facts about the case pretty much will keep the HIPAA gods at bay.

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk
 
That is a good question to ask yourself when retelling a story, BUT it is absolutely not the legal or ethical standard that you need to meet. The legal and ethical standard have to do with whether someone else can recognize the patient. The actual patient may well recognize their own story because of the confidential data that they are a party to, such as the things you said or did.

Another thing to consider is whether the patient would want that story told. On more than one occasion, a patient has told me they hope I get into medical school while thanking me. Ask yourself: would the patient want to help you in this way, by being mentioned anonymously? You are legally allowed to talk about patients who hate you (with sufficient anonymity), but on ethical grounds I think it is better to tell stories about patients who like you and would want to help you get accepted to medical school. On a similar note, a story about gout is less sensitive than a story about gonorrhea, although the legal test is the same.
If a patient's family members were to recognize themselves in your anecdote, do you think that they would feel that their privacy was violated or not?

According to HIPAA, a patient's information is "deindentified" if the following are removed:
2)

(i) The following identifiers of the individual or of relatives, employers, or household members of the individual, are removed:

(A) Names;

(B) All geographic subdivisions smaller than a State, including street address, city, county, precinct, zip code, and their equivalent geocodes, except for the initial three digits of a zip code if, according to the current publicly available data from the Bureau of the Censue:

(1) The geographic unit formed by combining all zip codes with the same three initial digits contains more than 20,000 people; and

(2) The initial three digits of a zip code for all such geographic units containing 20,000 or fewer people is changed to 000.

(C) All elements of dates (except year) for dates directly related to an individual, including birth date, admission date,, discharge date, date of death; and all ages over 89 and all elements of dates (including year) indicative of such age, except that such ages and elements may be aggregated into a single category of age 90 or older;

(D) Telephone numbers;

(E) Fax numbers;

(F) Electronic mail addresses;

(G) Social security numbers;

(H) Medical record numbers;

(I) Health plan beneficiary numbers;

(J) Account numbers;

(K) Certificate/license numbers;

(L) Vehicle identifiers and serial numbers, including license plate numbers;

(M) Device identifiers and serial numbers;

(N) Web Universal Resource Locators (URLs);

(O) Internet Protocol (IP) address numbers;

(P) Biometric identifiers, including finger and voice prints;

(Q) Full face photographic images and any comparable images; and

(R) Any other unique identifying number, characteristic, or code, except as permitted by paragraph (c) of this section;[related to making new code numbers for later identification]
 
all ages over 89? lol hillarious. i see a half dozen 90+ individuals daily. not sure the thought process is on that one. guess there are far fewer 101year olds then 51 yo.

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk
 
This is a no brainer. Use "Jane" or "Joe" for a name, and change the conditions they had. You still learned something from the patient interaction, right? That's what counts.

@gyngyn - if I say that "After immigrating, Mrs. Doe died due to coronary heart disease. She also had a history of smoking and diabetes." would that be bad? I don't talk about her that much. Maybe 2 sentences to provide background and where I first interacted with her.
 
Question: My PS mentions interaction with a patient, but only mentions his name–no conditions, hospital name/location, hometown, etc. That's not violating HIPAA, correct?
 
Question: My PS mentions interaction with a patient, but only mentions his name–no conditions, hospital name/location, hometown, etc. That's not violating HIPAA, correct?
[Edited, sorry if it was rude before.] You are legally required to change the name. That is among the only things that is really clear-cut in the law. In fact, if their name is "Jane" you should probably go for "Alice". Both are common fake names, but you can choose the one that is not accurate without raising eyebrows. John and Jane and Alice and Bob are both very common systems for generating fake names. Doctors and police tend to use John and Jane, but Alice and Bob are definitely common.

Hometown is the only other thing you list that you are legally forbidden to mention. You can mention the hospital and the medical conditions, especially if the whole picture is extremely non-unique, like a person with type 2 diabetes at the largest hospital in the city.
 
[Edited, sorry if it was rude before.] You are legally required to change the name. That is among the only things that is really clear-cut in the law. In fact, if their name is "Jane" you should probably go for "Alice". Both are common fake names, but you can choose the one that is not accurate without raising eyebrows. John and Jane and Alice and Bob are both very common systems for generating fake names. Doctors and police tend to use John and Jane, but Alice and Bob are definitely common.

Hometown is the only other thing you list that you are legally forbidden to mention. You can mention the hospital and the medical conditions, especially if the whole picture is extremely non-unique, like a person with type 2 diabetes at the largest hospital in the city.
Name was changed (used Devon because I know a lot of Devons. It's not super common but it's not his real name.) did not mention hometown, sorry if that was unclear.
 
I just wanted to emphasize that a patient's name is the most important thing to avoid or change. Hometown is also important to avoid or change, probably just avoid.

When picking a fake name, it is good to pick a fake-sounding name like John Doe. Medical journals rarely use real-sounding fake names like Devon. I have occasionally seen a case series with like 3 cases where they give each patient a real-sounding fake name, but more often it is Patient 1, Patient 2, and Patient 3.

The major place you see real-sounding fake names is in books, such as the books by Oliver Sacks.
 
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