How will residency PD's view Mayo AZ's first class?

[Gurby]

---

Members don't see this ad.

.

 

[mimelim]

I can not talk about larger programs/specialties because I have no data, anecdotal or otherwise.

I would be less concerned about pursuing smaller fields/residencies because your "Main concerns" don't pertain to them. When you only take 1-3 residents per year, you don't see a ton of people from the same schools and thus, what others from your school did/were like are of zero meaning. I can imagine on the other hand that if you don't have the time/system to look as closely at applicants, those would potentially come up when you are applying to competitive large residencies. Something else to keep in mind however is that if you are coming from a school with little history of applicants, then it is less likely that you will have students from your school applying to those residencies.

Personally, I know little about Mayo AZ first hand. I know a fair amount about them overall because I am currently looking at jobs and that area has come up more than once. I don't think that I have any questions in my mind that they will 'succeed' and build a strong school. I don't think that it being a 'new school' will have a ton of impact on you individually. There will still always be the same name/prestige biases, especially trying to obtain a northeast residency compared to the schools in the northeast, but you know about that already.

My brother was in a similar situation and we had some long discussions about this. You need to know the financial aid from the other schools and then factor in costs of living as well. Wait lists can put a wrench in that, but with so many unknowns it is hard to compare.

 

[libertyyne]

Here are my thoughts, you can take them or leave them.

1. Mayo selects students who are exceptional. This selection bias may contribute to the excellent residency placements.
2. Mayo has lots of well respected residency programs. The exposure to those PDs and ability to build connection with faculty for letters / research also leads to excellent residency placement.
3. Mayo has excellent clinical rotations.


Number 1,3 will still hold true for Mayo Az. Number 2 probably not to the full extent, but I am willing to bet that AZ may set you up with opportunities at the MN campus to build those relationships.

Mayo is and is not a new school, PDs are familiar with the quality of Mayo graduates and the name itself, the only question mark would be the AZ portion. I do think you should look towards OWUB for residency placements that a new school can accomplish.

If HMS opened up a new campus in AZ and called it HMS AZ do you think you would have similar doubts?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I think it's a mixed bag. Programs that are very small and competitive, when looking at candidates to interview, might pick those from known schools rather than new schools. Larger fields (like IM), it will have much less effect -- we interviewed candidates from some of the new schools that are graduating their first class and didn't worry about it. As far as "name recognition", I think a branch campus ends up being seen "like any other US MD school" -- if your home/sponsoring school has "great name recognition", the branch campus is likely to be seen as more average. That said, one benefit might be the opportunity for 4th year rotations -- if you can go to Mayo MN for a 4th year rotation and get a letter, that's a win.

Of note, a new small branch campus might not have every program available. If there's no neurosurgery program there, you'll find it very hard to get a NS spot, for example (I have no idea if they have NS or not).

Overall, I don't think there's much downside to a new school / branch campus for most.

 

[libertyyne]

I think it's a mixed bag. Programs that are very small and competitive, when looking at candidates to interview, might pick those from known schools rather than new schools. Larger fields (like IM), it will have much less effect -- we interviewed candidates from some of the new schools that are graduating their first class and didn't worry about it. As far as "name recognition", I think a branch campus ends up being seen "like any other US MD school" -- if your home/sponsoring school has "great name recognition", the branch campus is likely to be seen as more average. That said, one benefit might be the opportunity for 4th year rotations -- if you can go to Mayo MN for a 4th year rotation and get a letter, that's a win.

Of note, a new small branch campus might not have every program available. If there's no neurosurgery program there, you'll find it very hard to get a NS spot, for example (I have no idea if they have NS or not).

Overall, I don't think there's much downside to a new school / branch campus for most.

They dont have a NSG program there, only in FL and MN.

 

[Lucca]

Moving to PreMedical MD

 

[Gurby]

Personally, I know little about Mayo AZ first hand. I know a fair amount about them overall because I am currently looking at jobs and that area has come up more than once. I don't think that I have any questions in my mind that they will 'succeed' and build a strong school. I don't think that it being a 'new school' will have a ton of impact on you individually. There will still always be the same name/prestige biases, especially trying to obtain a northeast residency compared to the schools in the northeast, but you know about that already.

My brother was in a similar situation and we had some long discussions about this. You need to know the financial aid from the other schools and then factor in costs of living as well. Wait lists can put a wrench in that, but with so many unknowns it is hard to compare.

Thank you so much for your input. There are still a ton of unknowns and I guess I will have to be patient for now, but it definitely makes me feel better to hear that you think they will succeed.

If HMS opened up a new campus in AZ and called it HMS AZ do you think you would have similar doubts?

I will take your thoughts, thank you! Your points seem accurate to me.

And to answer the question, probably yes... I don't know if I would say I have "doubts" - personally I'm excited about Mayo AZ and can't imagine it not being super successful. But it scares me that physicians I know and trust IRL have been so lukewarm. As a pre-med/M0 I don't know what I don't know about this process.

I think it's a mixed bag. Programs that are very small and competitive, when looking at candidates to interview, might pick those from known schools rather than new schools. Larger fields (like IM), it will have much less effect -- we interviewed candidates from some of the new schools that are graduating their first class and didn't worry about it. As far as "name recognition", I think a branch campus ends up being seen "like any other US MD school" -- if your home/sponsoring school has "great name recognition", the branch campus is likely to be seen as more average. That said, one benefit might be the opportunity for 4th year rotations -- if you can go to Mayo MN for a 4th year rotation and get a letter, that's a win.

Of note, a new small branch campus might not have every program available. If there's no neurosurgery program there, you'll find it very hard to get a NS spot, for example (I have no idea if they have NS or not).

Overall, I don't think there's much downside to a new school / branch campus for most.

Interesting perspective, thank you so much! Everything subject to change, but I suspect that I will find myself interested in a "small and competitive" specialty. I guess I would just want to work hard at building those relationships/connections and look for MN letters.

 

[thenucleusaccumbens]

What makes you think Mayo Clinic AZ grads won't have an advantage when it comes to matching in a prestigious residency at Mayo Clinic Rochester?

One of the biggest issues I've heard regarding truly new schools, which Mayo AZ really isn't, is regarding clinical rotations and questions about the quality of clinical rotations. This is something that won't be an issue for students at Mayo Clinic AZ. Also consider the case of Hofstra Northwell. This is a truly new school and they don't have the advantage of being a branch campus of a very well established/top 20 school nor do they have the same level of name recognition and prestige as Mayo Clinic. But Northwell is a well respected hospital system in New York and this school has quickly climbed in the rankings. They have a nice match list, with many of their grads matching into very competitive specialities at Northwell and staying in that health system for residency. If Hofstra Northwell students haven't had any issues, I can't imagine why Mayo Clinic AZ students would especially given all the opportunities to do selectives, research and rotations at Mayo Clinic in Rochester.

 

[Crayola227]

with full tuition, if you're fairly certain if you don't do anything super competitive you won't be devastated, and you work super hard, it's hard to see how you can lose here

unless the school, being new, is a total disaster, and I doubt that

 

[Gurby]

What makes you think Mayo Clinic AZ grads won't have an advantage when it comes to matching in a prestigious residency at Mayo Clinic Rochester?

One of the biggest issues I've heard regarding truly new schools, which Mayo AZ really isn't, is regarding clinical rotations and questions about the quality of clinical rotations. This is something that won't be an issue for students at Mayo Clinic AZ. Also consider the case of Hofstra Northwell. This is a truly new school and they don't have the advantage of being a branch campus of a very well established/top 20 school nor do they have the same level of name recognition and prestige as Mayo Clinic. But Northwell is a well respected hospital system in New York and this school has quickly climbed in the rankings. They have a nice match list, with many of their grads matching into prestigious specialities at Northwell and staying in that health system for residency. If Hofstra Northwell students haven't had any issues, I can't imagine why Mayo Clinic AZ students would especially given all the opportunities to do selectives, research and rotations at Mayo Clinic in Rochester.

I have enjoyed your posts in other threads and was hoping you might chime in here!

I would expect AZ graduates to have an "in" to some extent to residency in MN, especially if they did well on rotations there. I worry more about how PD's elsewhere will look at them.

with full tuition, if you're fairly certain if you don't do anything super competitive you won't be devastated, and you work super hard, it's hard to see how you can lose here

unless the school, being new, is a total disaster, and I doubt that

I have a feeling I am going to want to gun for something super competitive though... Insane to turn down Pitt if I'm interested in a surgical sub-specialty? I guess again it's hard to really say for sure without knowing what the actual COA will be at each school.

 

[absolutelynot]

Same curriculum as MN. Same rotation opportunities as MN.

I am a lowly premed, by no means a PD. However, the only real disadvantage to the AZ campus that I can see is less (but by no means nonexistent) exposure to MN big names.

Congrats on the acceptances and scholarship!

 

[Gurby]

Same rotation opportunities as MN.

I'm not so sure this is 100% accurate. I don't recall the exact specifics about this, but I think most rotations will end up being done in AZ. I know you have the option to do some rotations in MN or FL, but I don't think you can just pack your bags and spend all of 3rd/4th year there (the FL 2+2 track notwithstanding). I feel like from a med student perspective this is fine, because we'll still be learning about horses and not be able to appreciate zebras anyways at that point. But I don't know how PD's might look at it.

 

[absolutelynot]

I'm not so sure this is 100% accurate. I don't recall the exact specifics about this, but I think most rotations will end up being done in AZ. I know you have the option to do some rotations in MN or FL, but I don't think you can just pack your bags and spend all of 3rd/4th year there (the FL 2+2 track notwithstanding). I feel like from a med student perspective this is fine, because we'll still be learning about horses and not be able to appreciate zebras anyways at that point. But I don't know how PD's might look at it.

I guess I would have to agree with you that AZ won't be able to do 100% of their rotations at MN. However, that really isn't even the most advantageous option in my opinion. Peds and OBGYN in AZ and Neuro in FL seems like the best combination in my opinion (and according to people I spoke with at second look). I bet Surgery and Medicine are better in MN.

The point that I'm trying to make is that all MN for third year might not be attainable, but I don't think it should be the goal either.