Huge Struggles with Anatomy Practical

[Redpancreas]

Hi!

I'm an M1 doing Gross Anatomy right now. We had our first unit exams and I totally bombed the practical. Coming out, everyone said it was hard but the averages were mid-80s and I got one point below failing. Luckily, the practical is combined and weighted equally with the written (did very well there, nearly perfect score and was on honors pace for the exam-top 10%) so I ended up somewhere in the middle of the pack.

What tips can you give me for lab. We go in 3x a week.

Currently, I have started paying way more attn. in lab and am now going in lab even when it's not required. My problem I feel is that I have terrible spatial memory. Like, I;ll have someone ID a structure and then I'll come back the next day and be lost again. I don't know if this is related but I am also terrible (very absent-minded in general) with roads unless I logic them through. Rohen's EBook doesn't help because the images aren't the best and it's not arranged in the most useful manner. Netter's is great but it's not the body. I have trouble with the basics and when I'm in lab, even the kids behind are able to ID structures better. When people examine my cadaver I've spend all week with for a couple seconds, they're able to point out structures on it better than I can.

What new advice can you guys give me? Also, I really want to go into a competitive IM specialty (gastro/cardio) and don't ever want to be in the bottom half for an exam again as that correlates with a not so desireable step score.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[sinombre]

Do you have a list of all structures you will have to identify? If you do, just go in and run through that list as many times as you need to until it sticks. I think the lists I had were usually around 10 pages long, and I would take a lot longer to run through the list the first time around.

Trying to learn the material during lab was definitely not enough time for me (in fact I got very little out of going to the scheduled labs, I only went because it was mandatory). I went in at least a handful of times at night for several hours to make sure I had everything down (for each test). Anatomy is 100% about repetition. I also really benefited from studying with a friend or classmate because we could quiz each other.

Good luck!

 

[bjb305]

so i tutored anatomy for like half of the class below me, about 85 students.. the best advice i would give, and is what they thought helped the most.. is to have someone else tag a bunch of structres with pins, then you have to identify them
granted, in this practice the other person must be correct on the structure in order for you to learn correctly.. but i think it is what works best.. reading off a list and then finding it in the body is NOT the same as a tagged structure then having you recall it from memory...

 

[NontradCA]

Tell the faculty you need help and try to get a tutor. Other than that it's going into lab and identifying the structures. Since you're doing well on the written, try to conceptualize the clinical significance of the structures as you're going through them.

 

[DermViser]

What new advice can you guys give me? Also, I really want to go into a competitive IM specialty (gastro/cardio) and don't ever want to be in the bottom half for an exam again as that correlates with a not so desireable step score.

GI and Cards don't care about your Gross Anatomy grade. And as a general rule IM is not a competitive specialty due to the wide range of available programs.

 

[operaman]

Great advice already in here. Only thing I would add: either when reviewing yourself or when someone is pinning structures for you to practice (we used to do this for each other), make sure you get comfortable with them pinned in "normal" and "abnormal" positions. I know out faculty would often orient the station in a way was not the way you usually see the structure in Netters or Rohen's (btw, get Rohen's if you haven't already). So maybe a list:

1) Buy Rohen's. Know every relevant page cold. COLD. You should be able to go down the numbers on any page and correctly ID every structure. These are the most beautiful cadaver dissections ever with everything perfectly laid out; you should be able to do them in your sleep.

2) Go through UMich's gross anatomy stuff. They have written quizzes and mock practicals. Take all of their mock practicals. Twice.

3) Find every structure on your pin list on at least 10 cadavers. Make sure you can ID them from multiple orientations. The orientation is not so much as issue when you're doing back/shoulder, but once you get into pelvis and head/neck, it can make easy things much trickier.

4) Find a buddy or a few others to work with. Anatomy is a team sport.

5) Our faculty would often be in lab on off hours or would meet us if we asked. If you have faculty who will do this, take advantage of it. These people are pinning your practical so I would make sure to listen to everything they say when taking you through a prosection.

 

[Señor S]

Form a dumb little study group like every other gunner and then quiz each other until you can't stand it anymore.

 

[tmn]

In my opinion, one mistake kids who are struggling with anatomy make is that they spend way too much time in the lab trying to compensate for their lack of knowledge. I think it's better to focus on Netter's until you basically know it cold, then go spend a small amount of time identifying structures. When you know where something is theoretically supposed to be, what's around it, what it attaches to, blood supply, innervation, etc., you can easily reason through less-than-ideal structures on real bodies. Added bonus: your time in the lab will be much more efficient.

 

[GUH]

+1 for getting a physical copy of Rohen's and knowing it cold. This book shows what an actual,cadaver looks like and saved my butt on practicals during anatomy.
I rented my copy from Amazon for like 20 bucks for the course.

 

[chillaxbro]

Destroy all the cadavers so theres no practical

 

[okokok]

Just here to say I'm in the same boat, but I'm about to bomb both lecture and lab exams in a couple days. I foolishly put off anatomy--maybe because it's so intimidating and tedious and boring to me--in favor for studying for my other exams. I need to recover my grade after I do pretty awful on this upcoming test (speaking realistically, not fatalistically; I'll study as much as I can over the next couple days and try hard), so I've realized I need to do some pretty obvious things from now on this semester:

- go to open lab every day. I don't know if it's a spatial thong or not, but I'm also terrible with directions and orienting myself around the structures and imagining anatomical relationships
- getting a tutor to quiz me
- reviewing lecture notes every day
- maybe also reviewing structures in Rohen daily?

This is all going to take a lot of time, but it'll be my goal over the next semester.

Anyway, you're not the only one struggling, and good luck.

 

[Waggles]

+1 on running through the structures on several bodies. I've found you can know every structure on the cadaver you're dissecting but then go to a different body and be completely lost.

You're probably already doing this but I'll throw it out there anyway. Waste no time during the practical orienting yourself to the body and identifying landmarks. Also ask yourself questions like: is this superficial to X? Deep? Where is it originating/inserting? Etc.

Also, study without the names of the structures right in front of you. It's easy to ID structures when you've got the name of them visible.

Finally, don't overlook any radiographs that may be on the exam. Good luck!

 

[okokok]

spatial thong

Lol

 

[Kaustikos]

Some things that helped me and I sucked at anatomy.
If I was on the arm I would divide it by topic: muscle, vessels and nerves. I'd start with a broad overview to identify things and then slowly go into more minute details. If I didn't know something, I'd focus on that. If I couldn't find it, I'd make a note and ask the professor or classmates.
Veins never mattered aside from the major ones
The worst dissections were always the ones tested. Don't rely on the clean, immaculate ones. I spent hours cleaning the eye/orbit/nerves and I don't think you could have found a better example... But it was not used. Instead, the eye off another cadaver that was half assed dissected was used.
I don't know if your practicals used it: but learn how to read X-ray's. Or be comfortable with the obvious structures.
Lastly - ask upper classmates. Ask them what was difficult on the exams.

I'll also add I was in the same boat as you but in histology. I pretty much failed the lab portion but honored lecture. It was embarrassing. Thankfully my professor took no offense and offered to help me.
Did it help? Let's just say in pathology... I would exclaim agonizing pain when he asked what the slide showed.

 

[PL198]

In my opinion, one mistake kids who are struggling with anatomy make is that they spend way too much time in the lab trying to compensate for their lack of knowledge. I think it's better to focus on Netter's until you basically know it cold, then go spend a small amount of time identifying structures. When you know where something is theoretically supposed to be, what's around it, what it attaches to, blood supply, innervation, etc., you can easily reason through less-than-ideal structures on real bodies. Added bonus: your time in the lab will be much more efficient.

This. Knowing that you're looking at the abductor pollicus longus means nothing if you don't know the conceptual relationship of it. The best people I know in anatomy are the people that can visualize the structure in their head and then they can see associated tissue from there. Those people generally spend a surprisingly LOW time actually in the lab, because once you understand the theoretical position, all you're really doing in actual gross lab is making slight tweaks to your mental image about how it actually appears in the body. I know other people that literally wouldn't go into lab besides the required time because they could just spatially reason everything out.

 

[Psai]

Like everyone said you need to go in with someone that knows what they're doing and get quizzed. By the way, going into lab when it's not required isn't a special thing you did. It's something that every medical student should do to prepare for the anatomy practical. Study more with questions. As operaman said, you should do the umich practicals. I think downstate has a decent one as well

 

[Kahreek]

I don't know how someone can honor the written and bomb the practical. Maybe they are just super good at regurgitating text.
You have to look at the muscle, nerves, vessels, and think how does this is different from that other structure where does it begin where does it end, you'll then recognize that structure in any body.

 

[EMDO2018]

I can't wait to get out of Anatomy, memorizing the position of random crap is killing me inside, anatomy and physiology should be taught together.

 

[DermViser]

Like everyone said you need to go in with someone that knows what they're doing and get quizzed. By the way, going into lab when it's not required isn't a special thing you did. It's something that every medical student should do to prepare for the anatomy practical. Study more with questions. As operaman said, you should do the umich practicals. I think downstate has a decent one as well

I laughed at that too. Going in when I wasn't required... LOL!!!! This isn't undergrad - your learning here is your responsibility. How you do it is your problem. You don't get extra points for coming in when you weren't "required".

 

[DermViser]

I can't wait to get out of Anatomy, memorizing the position of random crap is killing me inside, anatomy and physiology should be taught together.

Then it would be even harder. Physiology is not an easy subject either.

 

[Psai]

I can't wait to get out of Anatomy, memorizing the position of random crap is killing me inside, anatomy and physiology should be taught together.

Horrible idea

 

[Mad Jack]

Lol

I prefer non-euclidian thongs myself.

 

[Mad Jack]

I hate anatomy with an undying passion. Wouldn't hate it so much if not for my school's grading process, as I'm sure I can hit 70% of the structures. But missing "critical" structures is what worries me.

Looks like I'm in for a full weekend of huffing formaldehyde.

 

[DermViser]

I hate anatomy with an undying passion. Wouldn't hate it so much if not for my school's grading process, as I'm sure I can hit 70% of the structures. But missing "critical" structures is what worries me.

Looks like I'm in for a full weekend of huffing formaldehyde.

Is your school graded H/HP/SP/MP/F? Or are you referring to your weird competencies stuff?

 

[Mad Jack]

Is your school graded H/HP/SP/MP/F? Or are you referring to your weird competencies stuff?

Competencies stuff. I literally don't care about how high I pass so long as I pass. The low bar is just a lot higher due to the complications imposed by the competency-based system.

 

[DermViser]

Competencies stuff. I literally don't care about how high I pass so long as I pass. The low bar is just a lot higher due to the complications imposed by the competency-based system.

I'm not referring to the actual numerical grade. I'm more referring to the letter: H, HP, etc. Yes, your competency-based system (which is more for the clinical years than the basic science years) is ridiculous.

 

[Mad Jack]

I'm not referring to the actual numerical grade. I'm more referring to the letter: H, HP, etc. Yes, your competency-based system (which is more for the clinical years than the basic science years) is ridiculous.

Clinical sciences are graded Exceeds Expectations/Meets Expectations/Needs Improvement/Area of Concern. NI means you missed some competency questions, AoC means you missed a LOT of them. Both land you a degree of remediation. Medical knowledge (our combined immuno/biochem/pathology/pharm/etc) course is graded in the standard H/HP/P/F method, but still has competency points that, if missed, will land you in remediation.

 

[DermViser]

Clinical sciences are graded Exceeds Expectations/Meets Expectations/Needs Improvement/Area of Concern. NI means you missed some competency questions, AoC means you missed a LOT of them. Both land you a degree of remediation. Medical knowledge (our combined immuno/biochem/pathology/pharm/etc) course is graded in the standard H/HP/P/F method, but still has competency points that, if missed, will land you in remediation.

So one could get an "H", but if you miss certain questions, that means you missed a competency and are up for remediation? Wow, that blows. They should write on your test which ones are the double whammy questions: competency and go towards your grade.

 

[PL198]

Clinical sciences are graded Exceeds Expectations/Meets Expectations/Needs Improvement/Area of Concern. NI means you missed some competency questions, AoC means you missed a LOT of them. Both land you a degree of remediation. Medical knowledge (our combined immuno/biochem/pathology/pharm/etc) course is graded in the standard H/HP/P/F method, but still has competency points that, if missed, will land you in remediation.

Sounds like the Harry Potter grading scheme to me. Good luck on your OWLs!

 

[PL198]

So one could get an "H", but if you miss certain questions, that means you missed a competency and are up for remediation? Wow, that blows. They should write on your test which ones are the double whammy questions: competency and go towards your grade.

lol that would make kids like blow their brains out in the test room itself. if you have no f*cking clue on 5 of those questions and can only miss 2 or whatever you're gonna be sh*tting bricks

 

[DermViser]

lol that would make kids like blow their brains out in the test room itself. if you have no f*cking clue on 5 of those questions and can only miss 2 or whatever you're gonna be sh*tting bricks

I believe it's more like missing 5 or 6 questions out of 200 qualifies you for remediation.

 

[pre med 2014]

One word. ROHEN

 

[touchpause13]

Clinical sciences are graded Exceeds Expectations/Meets Expectations/Needs Improvement/Area of Concern. NI means you missed some competency questions, AoC means you missed a LOT of them. Both land you a degree of remediation. Medical knowledge (our combined immuno/biochem/pathology/pharm/etc) course is graded in the standard H/HP/P/F method, but still has competency points that, if missed, will land you in remediation.

Yeahhh sometimes I get frustrated with our system, then I remember what yours is and I realize I don't have it so bad

 

[sinombre]

I can't wait to get out of Anatomy, memorizing the position of random crap is killing me inside, anatomy and physiology should be taught together.

I think it should be spread out over the entire first year... a lot of schools do this now. Mine did, and I think I retained a lot more that way.

 

[PL198]

I think it should be spread out over the entire first year... a lot of schools do this now. Mine did, and I think I retained a lot more that way.

stop that would be logical, you know we can't have any of that around here.

anyone that doesn't do systems based learning is stupid (my school doesn't do systems based learning)

 

[DermViser]

stop that would be logical, you know we can't have any of that around here.

anyone that doesn't do systems based learning is stupid (my school doesn't do systems based learning)

Or it could prolong the pain over a much longer period of time. Many people hate Anatomy and want to take it in one block of time, and get it done and over with. But yes, at least at most top-tier/mid-tier schools, the basic science curriculum has been changed to more organ system blocks where you learn everything, or at least Anatomy/Pharm/Path/Phys thru one organ system block.

I don't know what the literature says as far as consensus on improvement in Step 1 scores.

 

[PL198]

Or it could prolong the pain over a much longer period of time. Many people hate Anatomy and want to take it in one block of time, and get it done and over with. But yes, at least at most top-tier/mid-tier schools, the basic science curriculum has been changed to more organ system blocks where you learn everything, or at least Anatomy/Pharm/Path/Phys thru one organ system block.

I don't know what the literature says as far as consensus on improvement in Step 1 scores.

I'm pretty confident there would be an improvement in step 1 scores. Not necessarily significant, but I definitely envision there being less minutiae in systems based. It seems much easier for a lecturer to drone on about some random aspect of histology if you're just doing a histo only lecture. If you're doing something that ties in, seems to me like you'd have to relate much more information together and focus more clinically.

 

[DermViser]

I'm pretty confident there would be an improvement in step 1 scores. Not necessarily significant, but I definitely envision there being less minutiae in systems based. It seems much easier for a lecturer to drone on about some random aspect of histology if you're just doing a histo only lecture. If you're doing something that ties in, seems to me like you'd have to relate much more information together and focus more clinically.

An organ systems based integrated system doesn't mean necessarily the lectures are integrated. It means the lectures are taught in the same time frame. It's not like your PhD anatomist will lecture to you about the pathology that affects that specific organ. What is essentially do is you have for example a CV block and in that block you get lectures on CV histology, CV pharmacology, CV physiology, etc. Each taught by separate people. The minutiae is still there.

 

[PL198]

An organ systems based integrated system doesn't mean necessarily the lectures are integrated. It means the lectures are taught in the same time frame. It's not like your PhD anatomist will lecture to you about the pathology that affects that specific organ. What is essentially do is you have for example a CV block and in that block you get lectures on CV histology, CV pharmacology, CV physiology, etc. Each taught by separate people. The minutiae is still there.

Agreed but my lecturers glance over the other ones of that day, so I'm assuming there would be at least some integration. I'd also say that minutiae is easier to remember when it's all in the same subject together.

 

[DermViser]

Agreed but my lecturers glance over the other ones of that day, so I'm assuming there would be at least some integration. I'd also say that minutiae is easier to remember when it's all in the same subject together.

Yes, mainly the integration is to be done by you, since it's taught in the same time frame. Not like a system where you learn about Physiology in M1, but have to wait to learn about Pharmacology in M2, which by that time you might have forgotten the physiology concepts in M1.

But, it's not like your Histology professor teaching you CV histology will be sitting in your Pharmacology professors lectures knowing what they're teaching and then teach their lectures accordingly.

Although there are some medical schools, I'm sure, whose faculty are that dedicated but that's definitely a minority.

 

[PL198]

Yes, mainly the integration is to be done by you, since it's taught in the same time frame. Not like a system where you learn about Physiology in M1, but have to wait to learn about Pharmacology in M2, which by that time you might have forgotten the physiology concepts in M1.

But, it's not like your Histology professor teaching you CV histology will be sitting in your Pharmacology professors lectures knowing what they're teaching and then teach their lectures accordingly.

Although there are some medical schools, I'm sure, whose faculty are that dedicated but that's definitely a minority.

Clone Goljan and solve all the world's problems.

 

[McNCheese]

My classmates put on a practice practical a few days before the practical. It's usually at this time that I really learn to ID a lot of the structures I'm not so good at. If your school doesn't put on practice practicals, you should do what someone else suggested earlier - take turns within a study group pinning structures in different bodies and identifying the pins.

Also, you should study enough before lab dissection that you have a good idea of the structures you are identifying. You will get a lot more out of lab time if you put in the time beforehand with netters and Rohen's.

How many people are in your dissection group? We had 4 in my group and there was a good amount of time when we weren't all cutting - one of us would discuss and quiz everyone when possible.