Hypocrisy in Medicine

[chillinillinkillin007]

If medical schools really want students who are interested in primary care why do medical schools brag about their match list in competitive positions such as the ROAD positions? Why do all these stupid premeds do a boatload amount of nonsensical EC's to boast their medical school chances and then just say they did it because they are naturally altruistic? Why is admitting any remote interested in medicine due to financial security viewed so negatively when nearly ever doctor and medical school staff would quit their job if they won the lottery?

There is so much hypocrisy involved in medicine it's not even funny. This hypocrisy is borderline unethical.

I want to enter medicine since I enjoy science, enjoy helping people, and want a financial secure life. But no, that is unacceptable. I either have to be Mother Teresa or piece of trash premed student. Why is it like this?

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[Ace-Co-A]

Step away from SDN for the night, man. Go get some rest or have some fun. 🙂

 

[ciestar]

Well, thank god all the ECs I did were from actual/genuine interest and not to check boxes (expection being some shadowing).

Yes, openly admitting that financial security tends to be frowned upon, but let's be real, nobody would commit to that type of debt if it meant low wages. What is mainly frowned upon is going into medicine solely for the money. There are better ways to make money, and faster, than medicine. Does the idea of financial security attract me? Absolutely. Is it my main reason? Not at all.

 

[sobored]

If medical schools really want students who are interested in primary care why do medical schools brag about their match list in competitive positions such as the ROAD positions? Why do all these stupid premeds do a boatload amount of nonsensical EC's to boast their medical school chances and then just say they did it because they are naturally altruistic? Why is admitting any remote interested in medicine due to financial security viewed so negatively when nearly ever doctor and medical school staff would quit their job if they won the lottery?

There is so much hypocrisy involved in medicine it's not even funny. This hypocrisy is borderline unethical.

I want to enter medicine since I enjoy science, enjoy helping people, and want a financial secure life. But no, that is unacceptable. I either have to be Mother Teresa or piece of trash premed student. Why is it like this?

Become qualified, apply and get in and you can do this. (Or you can keep crying about it...up to you).

 

[Spinach Dip]

Why do all these stupid premeds do a boatload amount of nonsensical EC's to boast their medical school chances and then just say they did it because they are naturally altruistic?

Because med schools want an easy way to trim the 13000 applications they get to around 1000. Cutting out all those who haven't done 200 hours in a soup kitchen, 250 hours shadowing 4+ medical specialties, 300 hours at the children's hospital, and 500 hours founding their own charity (while maintaining a 3.9, scoring a 38, and speaking 4 languages) just makes things simpler.

 

[mrh125]

If medical schools really want students who are interested in primary care why do medical schools brag about their match list in competitive positions such as the ROAD positions? Why do all these stupid premeds do a boatload amount of nonsensical EC's to boast their medical school chances and then just say they did it because they are naturally altruistic? Why is admitting any remote interested in medicine due to financial security viewed so negatively when nearly ever doctor and medical school staff would quit their job if they won the lottery?

There is so much hypocrisy involved in medicine it's not even funny. This hypocrisy is borderline unethical.

I want to enter medicine since I enjoy science, enjoy helping people, and want a financial secure life. But no, that is unacceptable. I either have to be Mother Teresa or piece of trash premed student. Why is it like this?

because life is full of people who will endlessly contradictory themselves in an effort to look good in any given scenario, when all they care about is a healthy bottom line and serving themselves the biggest slice of the pie they can. I just had my lead research mentor request that I donate $15000 to pay his salary in his global health organization so he'd give me my old research position back, after he knows how financially demanding the med school application process. now that's the epitome of self-serving corruption. Altruism is often times BS and claimed by people who just want to use it to look good to others. Even the most altruistic person's altruism would be eroded by this.

 

[Theafoni]

@Planes2Doc wrote about something similar to this a while ago, right now, you're just a lowly pre-med student, noone would take your opinion seriously--you can only bring about change when you have initials by your name, and change the perception of the system and overall mindset of students.

 

[chillinillinkillin007]

@Planes2Doc wrote about something similar to this a while ago, right now, you're just a lowly pre-med student, noone would take your opinion seriously--you can only bring about change when you have initials by your name, and change the perception of the system and overall mindset of students.

I'm aware of Planes2Doc's posts, and I agree 100% with them. My point is that this hypocrisy never ends and everyone is a goddamn hypocrite. You can't say that you advocate students to practice primary care in low income areas when you brag about your superficial match list. You can't be acting like you give a damn about professionalism when you try to kick out a student for getting a DUI when numerous members your medical school staff have a DUI.

Medicine is a business disguised as an altruistic organization with a bunch of neurotic fake premeds applying for employment.

 

[Planes2Doc]

A lot of it has to do with political correctness as well. Notice how everyone will attack physicians for making money, yet no one really cares that celebrities and athletes who don't care two ***** about them will make more in a year than a doctor will ever make in a lifetime. Who knows, maybe a lot of medical schools want leaders in medicine, and aren't so concerned about serving the underserved communities? It is kind of crazy though with the extent that pre-meds need to go to. They need to rack up tons of hours of free labor (and lose out on a lot of potential earnings) in order to prove something. This is unheard of for most other professional schools. It really sucks, but there's no end in sight, so we'll have to wait and see what happens in the future.

In reality, everyone has to put on a facade for just about any form of employment. Apparently, no one in this world works for a salary. They are all doing things they are passionate about (or whatever they write in their objective statement on their resumes), and the salary is just a bonus on the side. If you go into a job interview and say you want to work to make a salary so you can support your family, I guarantee that you will be rejected.

Also, go on wallstreetoasis.com. Apparently everyone wants to do investment banking for lots of wonderful idealistic reasons, yet I can't see anyone mentioning the salary you'd make. I guess all those people I met in college are hugely passionate about underwriting securities, maybe I was talking about doing that when I was a toddler. 😉

Sorry it's been a long day and my thoughts are discombobulated.

 

[chillinillinkillin007]

A lot of it has to do with political correctness as well. Notice how everyone will attack physicians for making money, yet no one really cares that celebrities and athletes who don't care two ***** about them will make more in a year than a doctor will ever make in a lifetime.

Welcome to America. Where if you make a decent living and you're not a celebrity or athlete you're automatically evil.

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

everyone is a goddamn hypocrite

Congrats, you're on the first rung of the ladder known as "The Real World".

 

[allantois]

If medical schools really want students who are interested in primary care why do medical schools brag about their match list in competitive positions such as the ROAD positions?

Please provide examples of med schools with a strong primary care objective which brag about placing students in ROAD specialties. Do you expect them to force students into primary care?

] Why is admitting any remote interested in medicine due to financial security viewed so negatively when nearly ever doctor and medical school staff would quit their job if they won the lottery?

Medical school physicians get a lot less compensated working in academia while they could be earning much more in clinical jobs. This is especially true for faculty members who are trained in high-earning specialties. Many faculty as well as affiliated faculty members at the medical school of my university work without any financial compensation. (how do I know? Salaries of public employees are available for everyone). As for the medical school staff, most people regardless of their job would quit it if they won millions of dollars in a lottery.

I want to enter medicine since I enjoy science, enjoy helping people, and want a financial secure life. But no, that is unacceptable. I either have to be Mother Teresa or piece of trash premed student. Why is it like this?

What is wrong with having to volunteer in order to get into med school? How do you suggest med schools should screen altruistic traits in applicants or make any kinds of admission decisions for the class of 100 students when they get thousands of applicants? Being able to do a lot of ECs also shows your time-management skills, which is something extremely useful in medicine.

Without any ECs, do you suggest med schools should select applicants strictly on metrics? There are way too many academically qualified students out there wanting to go into medicine.

 

[wholeheartedly]

This is easy. They say they are about primary care to get funding from the public and politicians.

They brag about ROAD matches to get funding (tuition) from the students.

 

[WillburCobb]

Please provide examples of med schools with a strong primary care objective which brag about placing students in ROAD specialties. Do you expect them to force students into primary care?

My school (MD) brags about how many students choose primary care, and how even though it's a majority, they want even more students to go that route. Very little is celebrated about the students who land the über competitive residencies and/or specialties.

 

[darkjedi]

I don't think all schools only want kids who are super interested in primary care... The ones that tend to match very well also tend to not emphasize primary care, but rather research anyway.

 

[KanyeWes]

This is easy. They say they are about primary care to get funding from the public and politicians.

They brag about ROAD matches to get funding (tuition) from the students.

This is so spot on, that it isn't even funny.

 

[LMBLBM]

If medical schools really want students who are interested in primary care why do medical schools brag about their match list in competitive positions such as the ROAD positions? Why do all these stupid premeds do a boatload amount of nonsensical EC's to boast their medical school chances and then just say they did it because they are naturally altruistic? Why is admitting any remote interested in medicine due to financial security viewed so negatively when nearly ever doctor and medical school staff would quit their job if they won the lottery?

There is so much hypocrisy involved in medicine it's not even funny. This hypocrisy is borderline unethical.

I want to enter medicine since I enjoy science, enjoy helping people, and want a financial secure life. But no, that is unacceptable. I either have to be Mother Teresa or piece of trash premed student. Why is it like this?

Isn't simple? How do you feed nasty **** to a stranger? You drizzle some sauce, pour msg, add bacon, and label the **** with 'fat free', 'natural ingredients' and etc.
If you haven't noticed, there is no such thing as Altruism in us. We do stuff because we like to do it. We help people because we feel ultimate happiness from living our lives with purpose (true or not). Trust me, if we don't receive any positive rewards, such as financial, fame, self driven or etc, from helping others we will help no one.

We are egocentric animals. We do what we want to do. Adcoms are not looking for premed with ultimate altrurism. Adcoms ain't stupid and they will call BS when they see those premeds with arguing for ultimate altrurism. As long as people can align their egocentrism means with altruistic outcomes, I don't see any problems

 

[Fabio Lanzoni]

If you haven't noticed, there is no such thing as Altruism in us. We do stuff because we like to do it. We help people because we feel ultimate happiness from living our lives with purpose (true or not). Trust me, if we don't receive any positive rewards, such as financial, fame, self driven or etc, from helping others we will help no one.

We are egocentric animals. We do what we want to do. Adcoms are not looking for premed with ultimate altrurism. Adcoms ain't stupid and they will call BS when they see those premeds with arguing for ultimate altrurism. As long as people can align their egocentrism means with altruistic outcomes, I don't see any problems

100% agree. I argued with one of my interviewers that altruism does not exist and we are simply satisfying our own desires to feel altruistic.

OP, I get your sentiment and I agree getting into med school is one of my most hypocritical and fake processes I've ever witnessed, but realizing that:
1- Everyone is a hypocrite and that is okay
2- You are a hypocrite and that is okay
3- Play the game or get played
Will make this so much more tolerable

 

[Lawpy]

If medical schools really want students who are interested in primary care why do medical schools brag about their match list in competitive positions such as the ROAD positions? Why do all these stupid premeds do a boatload amount of nonsensical EC's to boast their medical school chances and then just say they did it because they are naturally altruistic? Why is admitting any remote interested in medicine due to financial security viewed so negatively when nearly ever doctor and medical school staff would quit their job if they won the lottery?

There is so much hypocrisy involved in medicine it's not even funny. This hypocrisy is borderline unethical.

I want to enter medicine since I enjoy science, enjoy helping people, and want a financial secure life. But no, that is unacceptable. I either have to be Mother Teresa or piece of trash premed student. Why is it like this?

Because medical school admissions is a very imperfect system that needs a complete overhaul

 

[Lamel]

100% agree. I argued with one of my interviewers that altruism does not exist and we are simply satisfying our own desires to feel altruistic.

OP, I get your sentiment and I agree getting into med school is one of my most hypocritical and fake processes I've ever witnessed, but realizing that:
1- Everyone is a hypocrite and that is okay
2- You are a hypocrite and that is okay
3- Play the game or get played
Will make this so much more tolerable

Not necessarily. We can go all evolutionary here, read about kin selection. Obviously this is way complex and I get what you are saying, but it is interesting nonetheless.

 

[Fabio Lanzoni]

Not necessarily. We can go all evolutionary here, read about kin selection. Obviously this is way complex and I get what you are saying, but it is interesting nonetheless.

Oh, never heard of this before! I read about it briefly just now. You're still favoring "my genes vs. strangers' genes" I suppose

 

[Lamel]

Oh, never heard of this before! I read about it briefly just now. You're still favoring "my genes vs. strangers' genes" I suppose

Yeah in the end I suppose that's the case.

If you're interested in this sort of stuff, you should read "The Selfish Gene" by Dawkins. Evolutionary selection can get very complex and cool. Anyway I'll stop derailing the thread now.

 

[Zelda840]

The Selfish Gene was okay up until he tried incorporating cultural memes and then I was just over it. Interesting concepts, but I couldn't handle being beaten over the head with them repeatedly.