Hypothetical: pre-med student passing USMLE

[mykii]

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Hi,

I was reading an argument on another forum about whether a pre-med could pass the USMLE if given:

1) two years to study the material and review for it.
2) All of the study materials are provided i.e. kaplan lectures, textbooks, FA etc.

I was wondering what all you SDN'ers think of this?
Possible/Impossible?

 

[vicinihil]

Irrelevant?

Passing and doing well are two very different things. Passing or doing well and becoming competent at what you do is another topic all together.

 

[mykii]

Irrelevant?

Passing and doing well are two very different things. Passing or doing well and becoming competent at what you do is another topic all together.

Personally I couldn't agree more as passing and scoring well are two completely separate concepts, nor is it a sufficiently accurate predictor of ones success as a physician.

However, the point being made on the other forum was whether the curriculum involved and experienced during medical school is made unnecessarily difficult and can easily be achieved via self-study without any formal graduate education - provided one has a solid foundation of basic clinical sciences.

 

[vicinihil]

heh, what part of med school isn't self study. With the amount of review material out there and the reliability almost everyone on this forum has for FA, Goljan, High Yield, Kaplan Qbank, UW, etc etc, it's a surprise we still have classes (note the change from lecture to PBL at many institutions). Seeing that <50% of med students still attend class (not just my school but a couple of my friend's schools too), curriculum is made P/F to ease some tension, and the pass rate is well over 80% for step 1, I'm pretty sure med school IS self directed learning.

I think most of the learning happens 3rd year where you put what you "know" to use and apply it clinically.

 

[McGillGrad]

It would take more than 2 years.

 

[Waywoe]

Why on Earth would anyone want to?

 

[kdburton]

Yeah im sure its possible to pass Step 1 like that. I think if someone were handed a stack of text books, given no syllabi/class notes, but told they will have a test on "the cardiovascular system" in 2 months, they may have a hard time passing the final test written by my CVS professors. But given two years to read through a basic phys, path, biochem, etc, etc book and then some review books for the boards I think they could pass Step 1.

 

[VoiceofReason]

with proper self education, many many people could easily crush step 1 without ever going to a US allo program.

US allo programs pile on tons of garbage and interruptions during the first two years that are more a hindrance to an optimal step 1 study plan than a help.

 

[McGillGrad]

with proper self education, many many people could easily crush step 1 without ever going to a US allo program.

US allo programs pile on tons of garbage and interruptions during the first two years that are more a hindrance to an optimal step 1 study plan than a help.

That is assuming that Step 1 is important for practicing medicine.

It is a tool to measure a base minimum of medical knowledge required to start hospital rotations. It was not created to differentiate the level of knowledge. Want proof? The two digit score of 99 starts at 236 because after that point, the actual difference is so small that it become a moot point.

Step 1 is just like the MCAT. It is a means to an end and any secondary quality ascribed to, it beyond that, is pure delusion.

 

[plauto]

If you take a premed and give him 2 years, doesn't that make him an MSII? In which case I don't see the relevance of the argument.

 

[InTheMaking]

heh, what part of med school isn't self study. With the amount of review material out there and the reliability almost everyone on this forum has for FA, Goljan, High Yield, Kaplan Qbank, UW, etc etc, it's a surprise we still have classes (note the change from lecture to PBL at many institutions). Seeing that <50% of med students still attend class (not just my school but a couple of my friend's schools too), curriculum is made P/F to ease some tension, and the pass rate is well over 80% for step 1, I'm pretty sure med school IS self directed learning.

I think most of the learning happens 3rd year where you put what you "know" to use and apply it clinically.

You forget that in order to use "Review" books, you first need to LEARN the material. That is, I would challenge anyone to learn and understand all topics solely on the basis of the "Review books.

 

[vicinihil]

Not true.

I use review books to learn the material. Because it presents the information in a different way that helps understanding. I believe a school curriculum and the review books work hand in hand. Neither is comprehensive but they synergize. For people that have had "crappy" courses in med school, I'm sure they learn it in review books. For 3rd year, there's not much classroom teaching that goes on and you'll only see but a fraction of what you need to know for a shelf...where do they learn it? In text books? Then you're gravely mistaken.

 

[InTheMaking]

Not true.

I use review books to learn the material. Because it presents the information in a different way that helps understanding. I believe a school curriculum and the review books work hand in hand. Neither is comprehensive but they synergize. For people that have had "crappy" courses in med school, I'm sure they learn it in review books. For 3rd year, there's not much classroom teaching that goes on and you'll only see but a fraction of what you need to know for a shelf...where do they learn it? In text books? Then you're gravely mistaken.

Lol. Okay. Try to learn Neuroanatomy solely using HY Neuroanatomy. Good luck buddy.

3rd year? How bout Hands on experience + reading from textbooks like Harrison's? That's where you learn and you add in a review book to concisely REVIEW and ORGANIZE your thoughts in your brain.

I'm not saying people can't learn something new from a review book but I'm saying that is not their intent and its not the best way to do it.

Your "not true" is untrue.

 

[VoiceofReason]

That is assuming that Step 1 is important for practicing medicine.

It is a tool to measure a base minimum of medical knowledge required to start hospital rotations. It was not created to differentiate the level of knowledge. Want proof? The two digit score of 99 starts at 236 because after that point, the actual difference is so small that it become a moot point.

Step 1 is just like the MCAT. It is a means to an end and any secondary quality ascribed to, it beyond that, is pure delusion.

hmm. yes, interesting. I think you read something into my post that wasn't there, all i said was anyone can crush step 1 i didnt say anything about what that means for you as a potential doctor.