hypothetical scenerio

[jeff2005]

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Meet Jenn and Bob. Jenn is a 4th year going into pathology. Bob is her loyal husband who has been supporting her and following her from place to place for 8 years.

Meet programs Corn Fields U. and Sink or Swim U. Both programs are excellent, but Sink or Swim U. is larger and more well known.

Jenn wants to go to Corn Field U very badly. Her husband does not want to move to Corn Field State (very badly), but instead would be thrilled to end up in Sink or Swim State. In fact, Bob threatens to leave Jenn if she insists on going to Corn Field U. Jenn doesn't believe he would ever do that.

If you were Jenn, what would you do?

 

[deschutes]

You liked Wash U, didn't you?

Gawd I'm killling myself laughing. STILL.

By the way, I meant my question to be completely serious.

 

[jeff2005]

I did like Wash U. (I guess you saw through my hypothetical scenerio! ) But I know I'd be a lot happier at Iowa. Unfortunately, what makes me happy doesn't make my husband happy. 🙁

 

[deschutes]

Hi Jenn, nice to meet you 😉

I have an incredible amount of respect for you guys who have to cart partners and families around. As if the Match itself wasn't hard enough to deal with!

Why doesn't Bob want to go to CFU, if I may ask?

 

[jeff2005]

Hi Jenn, nice to meet you 😉

I have an incredible amount of respect for you guys who have to cart partners and families around. As if the Match itself wasn't hard enough to deal with!

Why doesn't Bob want to go to CFU, if I may ask?

He thinks Corn Field state is too cold and too unattractive. He's from St. Louis and loves it there. It's interesting that the two locations are only 5 hours apart.

And yes, it's a pain in the arse to make everything work and everyone happy. I have to look into public school quality, jobs for my spouse, housing prices etc.

 

[yaah]

Perhaps Jenn and Bob should take a weekend vacation in Corn Field City and see if they he can stomach it. It's a pretty cool city, actually. I mean, Iowa did just get cable tv and all (kidding). It's a decent drive from Chicago but it isn't terrible.

That being said, there are lots of good programs out there - on the interview day you do tend to see the best parts of the program and not the parts that you may wonder "why didn't I ask about that or notice that" afterwards. The place you live becomes important. I would like to think I would follow my spouse (have to find one first though) if it was possible to do so and my only objection was "I don't want to live there."

Of course, I am the kind of person who prefers cities like Corn Field City to cities like larger cities under a large arch that are colored red for some reason.

Honestly, though, hard pressed to find better family-type arrangements than Corn Field City. You get great health care, and towns like that and Ann Arbor that are University dominated tend to have great public schools because of all the college profs and their demanding standards!

 

[Doctor B.]

You will get good training at either place. Your hours will probably be longer at Wash U but either way you'll have an excellent training experience. But, resolving the issue with your husband is going to take sacrifice on the part of one of you. How bad would you feel if you ended up at Wash U? Bad enough to regret it? If so, try to reason with him and explain why you don't want to go there. Also, remind him that you'll make lots of money in 4-5 years 🙂. It's a tough situtation to work out; I wish you the best of luck.

 

[stormjen]

Last week I took my husband to Rust Belt University, so he could check out the city and see if it was as bad as he had imagined. It wasn't, and in fact he is now doing his own research into it and finding positive things about the city. Has your husband been to Corn Field University?

 

[deschutes]

I agree with the rest - a family visit to Corn Field City (perhaps in the thick of winter to see what the "worst" is?) is in order. Have you discussed why you like the place with him?

Blah, blah, blah - we know the truth!

This is a transplant - I was going to post on the Interview Experiences thread and then decided it really should be saved for "case reports" versus personal reflections.

Corn Field City really made me think. Not so much about the city (let's face it, town!) but what it told me about myself.

My thing about Corn Field City is not the cornfields, but that it's terribly terribly intellectual - I was afraid it might be almost isolationistically so. I felt it was very non-representative of the world at large.

Historic Peninsula is not very much larger. I shouldered my Embassy Suites stay with two nights at a darling little youth hostel located in a crackhead-but-safe-enough neighbourhood. I like the juxtaposition of that with the Manolo Blahniks.

That's why I like cities. Not only for the shopping and the multi-cineplexes, but for the realism.

I'm the sort who believes in a healthy amount of dirt and bug exposure.

But that's just me.

 

[RyMcQ]

He thinks Corn Field state is too cold and too unattractive.

Don't make me go Weather Channel on you again!

St. Louis is on average 4-6 degrees warmer than Iowa City during January, and 70% wetter.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Perhaps Jenn and Bob should take a weekend vacation in Corn Field City and see if they he can stomach it. It's a pretty cool city, actually. I mean, Iowa did just get cable tv and all (kidding). It's a decent drive from Chicago but it isn't terrible.

Systematic desensitization and biofeedback. I like this idea.

Jeff2005, my first impression was that Sink or Swim U = MGH. WashU and MGH have lots in common. These two places are bona fide FACTORIES. You are servants. You work your butt off. You do a lot of scut. Nobody tells you that you're special. The folks at WashU I would envision to be nicer and more collegial (and I'm talking about the faculty/resident interactions as I can envision that resident/resident interactions are quite favorable at both places)...there ARE differences between the midwest and east coast.

Back to your question...Iowa vs. WashU. I haven't been to Iowa. But if you are seriously considering academic pathology as your career (as you hinted in a previous post of yours, I think)...WashU hands down! If you want to be a community pathologists, I imagine that either place would suit your needs. Here's another issue though...you may be more exhausted and cranky if you work at WashU vs. Iowa. I'm sure residents at both places work hard and take pathology seriously. However, I can imagine Iowa being a bit more humane in terms of resident workload. And I can bet that your husband would like to see your happy side more than the opposite, right?

 

[jeff2005]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I think I am going to take my husband to visit Iowa City. 👍 And Andy, it may be true that Wash U is better for academics, but Iowa wouldn't be shabby or anything. And I think I would perform better at Iowa. Why am I so in love with that place? 😍 It's completely irrational.

 

[deschutes]

Why am I so in love with that place? 😍 It's completely irrational.

When you do figure it out, I would love to hear why!

You are right about Iowa not being shabby at all. I had another talk yesterday with my faculty advisor about my programs. He has been very pro-Iowa! (I had to ask this once to leave them out of the discussion - I was agonized enough as things were; not that it ever stopped him from bringing them in at choice moments!)

He said that you tend to notice Iowa at the big meetings like USCAP - that people were always doing interesting things there. And that if they told me they were in the top 5 for resident abstracts presented at USCAP, it was probably true.

I foresee that this is going to be the Iowa vs. the rest of the options thread.

 

[SpinachPizza]

He thinks Corn Field state is too cold and too unattractive. He's from St. Louis and loves it there. It's interesting that the two locations are only 5 hours apart.

And as everyone knows, St. Louis is world renowned for its beauty and incredible weather! 😛

 

[DrBloodmoney]

After spending 25 years in St. Louis, I can attest to the fact that it has the worst of both worlds in terms of weather... It's miserable in the summer and cold /snowy in the winter.

Plus there ain't that much to do there. You can either drink or be a sports fan... most people do both.

 

[jeff2005]

Last week I took my husband to Rust Belt University, so he could check out the city and see if it was as bad as he had imagined. It wasn't, and in fact he is now doing his own research into it and finding positive things about the city. Has your husband been to Corn Field University?

He has been to Corn Field City and he hated it.

We just had a long talk and we agreed that Corn Field U would be #3. Programs #1 and #2 are pretty competitive, so I could still wind up at Iowa. My husband also reminded me that after I visited #1 and #2 I went on and on about how wonderful they were. He's right. Darn!

 

[yaah]

You could be sneaky and change your rank list to put Iowa #1, then if you match there you can tell him "Oh well! Guess I wasn't good enough to get into the other 2!"

Of course, those are the kinds of things that can doom a marriage, so perhaps you shouldn't take that advice. Then again, if he never finds out...

 

[jeff2005]

You could be sneaky and change your rank list to put Iowa #1, then if you match there you can tell him "Oh well! Guess I wasn't good enough to get into the other 2!"

Of course, those are the kinds of things that can doom a marriage, so perhaps you shouldn't take that advice. Then again, if he never finds out...

That did occur to me. It also occurred to my husband and he insists on seeing my official ROL before it's sent. What ever happened to trust in a marriage!

 

[deschutes]

That did occur to me. It also occurred to my husband and he insists on seeing my official ROL before it's sent.

Takes one to know one! 😉

 

[yaah]

That did occur to me. It also occurred to my husband and he insists on seeing my official ROL before it's sent. What ever happened to trust in a marriage!

At that point, you show him the list and then get him distracted somehow (you are a woman, it shouldn't be that hard) and then change it. Or, you can say you have to run to the store briefly, and stop by a library or something and change it. Or, call a friend and have them change it and buy their silence.

There are still lots of possibilities!

Of course, that being said, if I was married at the time of the ROL I probably would have submitted and meekly agreed to whatever rank list she wanted. Unless I was trying to get rid of her. But women are different. Women are not as often whipped.

 

[LADoc00]

Meet Jenn and Bob. Jenn is a 4th year going into pathology. Bob is her loyal husband who has been supporting her and following her from place to place for 8 years.

Meet programs Corn Fields U. and Sink or Swim U. Both programs are excellent, but Sink or Swim U. is larger and more well known.

Jenn wants to go to Corn Field U very badly. Her husband does not want to move to Corn Field State (very badly), but instead would be thrilled to end up in Sink or Swim State. In fact, Bob threatens to leave Jenn if she insists on going to Corn Field U. Jenn doesn't believe he would ever do that.

If you were Jenn, what would you do?

If I was Jenn (assuming she is hot), I would become a stripper. Always fantasized about that.

...Hows them apples?

PS- I lived in Olin Hall for YEARS, it was my Leavenworth Prison. I woke up and dragged my sorry butt to conferences and saw residents pummelled, yes verbally pummelled time after time. MGH/Brighams/Stanford are vacations compared to WashU, like Baghdad and Kaui-levels. One of my good friends was an ortho resident, shot himself in the head. One of my classmates lept from a windown DURING a class party of a 10 story building. Another female resident I knew shot herself in the chest with a shotgun. Im not not ****ting you here, this is all true. I love WashU more than any place Ive trained, but its like my love for the Marine Corps, its born of serious suffering. At the risk of being called sexist, I dont think its a good place for young women. And you can tell your boyfriend that.

 

[yaah]

You've fantasized about being a female stripper?

Can't say I have ever reached that point. I don't know how becoming a stripper would help in this situation, but I like the creativity. It would certainly throw a strange and surprising variable into the equation.

 

[1Path]

Meet Jenn and Bob. Jenn is a 4th year going into pathology. Bob is her loyal husband who has been supporting her and following her from place to place for 8 years.

I personally think it's YOUR turn to follow HIS suggestion. At least, that's what I agreed to in the prenup I signed with my soon-to-be husband!

 

[SpinachPizza]

I personally think it's YOUR turn to follow HIS suggestion. At least, that's what I agreed to in the prenup I signed with my soon-to-be husband!

And I personally think that Jen is Bob's meal ticket!! 😀

Just kidding of course. One thing is always true: if things aren't happy at home, then you yourself won't be happy at work, either, no matter where you're training.

 

[LADoc00]

And I personally think that Jen is Bob's meal ticket!! 😀

Just kidding of course. One thing is always true: if things aren't happy at home, then you yourself won't be happy at work, either, no matter where you're training.

Im also baffled why men marry female docs...especially if they are in a scenario where they are being lead from place to place as the OP implies. Does he have a single shred of self respect? Im serious, its simply not socially acceptable to be the little lap dog to some professional career type woman. I would rather hang with a lower class construction worker than pal around with an ambigiously feminine man who wife does all the bread winning. Look at the quote above! Meal ticket, hes nothing but a free loader to most people!!

Dont tell me he is in love and that does strange things...that crap will get old fast. Ive seen the husbands of female 'ballbuster' docs and pity the poor SOBs. I would FAR rather be poor and picking up on teenagers at the local trailer park than have to listen to incessant egotistical high pitched whine from a female version of me!! Do him a favor and dump him. It could be an extra special xmas present.

AND no Spinachpizzan you ARENT kidding. Thats the truly sad thing.

 

[jeff2005]

If I ever turn into a female version of LaDoc, please shoot me.

 

[LADoc00]

Jenn why do you go by the handle Jeff?


Whats that all about?

 

[jeff2005]

Jenn why do you go by the handle Jeff?


Whats that all about?

Just to annoy you.

 

[LADoc00]

Just to annoy you.

BS..there some deep Freudian sexual thing going on here....I can sense it. Just under the surface of a quiet unassuming 4th year female med student named Jenn beats the libido of a sex-crazed testosterone junky named Jeff. Did your Dad always want a son? Im sensing something deep here.

 

[jeff2005]

BS..there some deep Freudian sexual thing going on here....I can sense it. Just under the surface of a quiet unassuming 4th year female med student named Jenn beats the libido of a sex-crazed testosterone junky named Jeff. Did your Dad always want a son? Im sensing something deep here.

You're very astute.

 

[LADoc00]

You're very astute.

Jenn what did you want be when you grew up as a little girl? Just curious. Did you have a my little ponies collection? Did you watch smurfs? I sure did. Smurfs kicked ass. Did you have that home fisher-price baking set (the one where you could make fake plado muffins) or did you always want to play with boy stuff like Tonka trucks?

 

[SpinachPizza]

Hey man I was kidding, and I certainly didn't intend to spark some kind of socio-cultural sparring. But in a sense it was worth it because as a result we all got to see Jeff2005 post consecutive 5-syllable retorts.

 

[deschutes]

Well LADoc00, we know that Jenn has happily volunteered her location, and that's Philly... you are a smart man, sir - I trust you will arrive at the real (non-Freudian) explanation in time.

SpinachPizza I am in complete agreement with you 😀

I love My Little Pony!!

 

[jeff2005]

GREAT NEWS!!!

My husband has relented and I can put Iowa first! Now I just have to match there.

 

[SpinachPizza]

Well LADoc00, we know that Jenn has happily volunteered her location, and that's Philly... you are a smart man, sir - I trust you will arrive at the real (non-Freudian) explanation in time.

SpinachPizza I am in complete agreement with you 😀

I love My Little Pony!!

And I loved the Planet of the Apes Treehouse I had when I was a kid! 🙂

Jenn/Jeff, that's great, as long as you've got domestic happiness. I strongly suspect that while your husband/Bob might not be totally enthused about Cornfield State, he will probably be VERY enthused about 1) your shorter commute time to work, and 2) the greater amount of time you'll probably have to spend with your family.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

And I loved the Planet of the Apes Treehouse I had when I was a kid! 🙂

Jenn/Jeff, that's great, as long as you've got domestic happiness. I strongly suspect that while your husband/Bob might not be totally enthused about Cornfield State, he will probably be VERY enthused about 1) your shorter commute time to work, and 2) the greater amount of time you'll probably have to spend with your family.

Jeff2005, I'm happy to hear that things worked themselves out.

BTW, a few days ago when I posted about WashU vs. Iowa, I was saying that WashU was an exceptional place rather than saying that Iowa was a crappy place so please take no offense. Perhaps my comment was a bit out of ignorance as well...anyways you get the point.

If Iowa is now your #1 choice, I wish you the best of luck in matching there. You've gotten interviews from fantastic places so I will venture forth and say that Iowa would love to have you!

 

[yaah]

I was a Masters of the Universe fan. During my interview travels and two months off last winter I discovered a MOTU marathon on the cartoon network or something and I sat and watched for a long time.

I am curious as to what made Bob change his mind...Women have so much power over men. Too bad it can't be harnessed and used to generate electricity, or bottled and exported for profit.

 

[LADoc00]

I was a Masters of the Universe fan. During my interview travels and two months off last winter I discovered a MOTU marathon on the cartoon network or something and I sat and watched for a long time.

I am curious as to what made Bob change his mind...Women have so much power over men. Too bad it can't be harnessed and used to generate electricity, or bottled and exported for profit.

I always thought Skeletor was a total ***** for how absurdly tough he looked, Come the Fook On!, the guy was a magical undead creature, what the hell does he have to be afraid of? An ambigiously gay tough guy like He-Man?! Hell no! He-man was eyeing Man-at-arms every chance he could. He-man, what the hell name is that, unless the cartoonists were thinking of something to go along with She-Male. Then they got it right!

 

[yaah]

Skeletor had a castle with a trap door though. And he had a kickass purple jaguar with velvet fur.

Yeah, He-Man spent too much time with Man At Arms at the expense of time with Teela. I think Beastman was the wussiest character though. Someone with a name like beastman should be a little more intimidating than a ball of orange fuzz with an Amish beard and a weak growl. Beastman always played the role of the loser in my MOTU wars.

Personally I always wondered how skeletor could talk given that he had no larynx and his chest was open to the air so he couldn't create any kind of pressure gradient to allow him to speak. Especially because he flapped his jaw when he spoke as though that is the key to speaking. I guess I was a pretty nerdy 10 year old.

 

[jeff2005]

BTW, a few days ago when I posted about WashU vs. Iowa, I was saying that WashU was an exceptional place rather than saying that Iowa was a crappy place so please take no offense. Perhaps my comment was a bit out of ignorance as well...anyways you get the point.

No offense taken. You made a good point. I'm glad you post your honest opinion, and you're not a jerk about it like you-know-who.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

you're not a jerk about it like you-know-who.

It's too bad you two can't get along better...you gotta respect him for not holding back though. To have no shame like that is in some respects enviable.

 

[deschutes]

Jeff2005 - congrats! February 23 is still a bit of ways off though... watch you don't change back!

Women have so much power over men.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

2) the greater amount of time you'll probably have to spend with your family.

"probably" "have" "to"?

Sorry! There I go being a meanie again.

 

[SpinachPizza]

Hey that's not what I meant, but it's pretty funny nonetheless.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Hey that's not what I meant, but it's pretty funny nonetheless.

I think this is funny too. You have to realize that deschutes has a keen eye to wording and detail. I have been the victim of this many times.

 

[deschutes]

You have to realize that deschutes has a keen eye to wording and detail.

Apparently my keen eye to wording and detail in the English language has all this while been my Achilles' heel. Apparently I speak it so well that it masks my status as an international student and people don't explain things to me in as much detail as they would to someone who "sounded" obviously international. Bring on the communications consultants!