I almost have the BS, but don't know if I want to go to optometry school

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kandygurl2

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Please Help me out. I am two classes away from having my Bachelors degree and a minor in business. I started filling out the optocast application, and am studying for the OAT. I am having a hard time studying, and I am not sure if I want to be an optometrist any more. I have been working for Luxottica for the past 5 years, first starting in Pearle Vision and moving to Lenscrafters. I know the complete ins and outs of optometry and I love the idea of having my own practice/buisness, but Im not sure if it is worth the work. I also am seventh day adventist so I can not work saturdays and I can not hire someone to work saturdays for me. I am worried that once I do get out there, there will be to many optometrists and not enough patients. I am worried that opticians will start doing our job and phasing optometrists out. I am worried that I would have gone through all this work and will not be making what we should and deserve for being doctors. I talk to patients all the time that are surprised that it takes an extra 4 years to get the OD. Is there anything besides optometry that would be good to go into that doesn't mean becoming a md, dentist, vet or pharmacist? What do you think I should do? Thanks
 
Lol GED/associate degree Opticians will not be able to prescribe glaucoma medications. There is a huge gap between optician education and optometrist education. That is our safety buffer. Name one state where opticians can refract? Name two states where optometrists can do eye surgery? See the difference?

Also with obamacare there will be many millions of more patients, ODs are regarded as physicians on medicare and with your own practice you basically make almost as much as a comprehensive OMD, and the overall population of America is increasing.
 
Please Help me out. I am two classes away from having my Bachelors degree and a minor in business. I started filling out the optocast application, and am studying for the OAT. I am having a hard time studying, and I am not sure if I want to be an optometrist any more. I have been working for Luxottica for the past 5 years, first starting in Pearle Vision and moving to Lenscrafters. I know the complete ins and outs of optometry and I love the idea of having my own practice/buisness, but Im not sure if it is worth the work. I also am seventh day adventist so I can not work saturdays and I can not hire someone to work saturdays for me. I am worried that once I do get out there, there will be to many optometrists and not enough patients. I am worried that opticians will start doing our job and phasing optometrists out. I am worried that I would have gone through all this work and will not be making what we should and deserve for being doctors. I talk to patients all the time that are surprised that it takes an extra 4 years to get the OD. Is there anything besides optometry that would be good to go into that doesn't mean becoming a md, dentist, vet or pharmacist? What do you think I should do? Thanks

Wow. Maybe this is a trolling post, but I'll entertain it.

I am a 2nd yr optometry student. In my previous career, I was a licensed optician for 20 years. The notion that opticians will ever displace ODs is absolutely ridiculous.
I also think that you may know less about all the ins & outs of optometry than you think. I know I still have a lot to learn about optometry. I have a B.S. in business and still believe I have much to learn.
Next, there are plenty of people of the Jewish faith that are ODs. Many of them do not work on their sabbath either. There are 6 other days to work. After a while, if it's your own practice you'll probably be able to afford to hire someone for Saturdays. A practice that is your own is ALWAYS worth the work.

Perhaps you are right about going into another profession, but if MD, DDS, DVM, or PharmD don't wort for you, then I don't know what to tell you.
 
Is there anything besides optometry that would be good to go into that doesn't mean becoming a md, dentist, vet or pharmacist? What do you think I should do? Thanks

PhD, DPM(Podiatrist), DPT(Physical Therapist), AuD (Audiologist), DO (Osteopath)?

What do I think you should do? With so much experience in opticianry/optometry, go into optometry.
 
Please Help me out. I am two classes away from having my Bachelors degree and a minor in business. I started filling out the optocast application, and am studying for the OAT. I am having a hard time studying, and I am not sure if I want to be an optometrist any more. I have been working for Luxottica for the past 5 years, first starting in Pearle Vision and moving to Lenscrafters. I know the complete ins and outs of optometry and I love the idea of having my own practice/buisness, but Im not sure if it is worth the work. I also am seventh day adventist so I can not work saturdays and I can not hire someone to work saturdays for me. I am worried that once I do get out there, there will be to many optometrists and not enough patients. I am worried that opticians will start doing our job and phasing optometrists out. I am worried that I would have gone through all this work and will not be making what we should and deserve for being doctors. I talk to patients all the time that are surprised that it takes an extra 4 years to get the OD. Is there anything besides optometry that would be good to go into that doesn't mean becoming a md, dentist, vet or pharmacist? What do you think I should do? Thanks

Try to become a Physician Assistant. I've heard they can make as much as ODs/PharmDs/Dentists at starting wage, and the schooling is only 2 years post undergraduate (from what I remember).

I am curious as to why you believe in the negative trends that you described in your post....care to back it up?
 
The doom and gloom regarding our profession has been around longer than any of us. I have been in practice for over 20 years and I heard the same things as an optometry student (opticians will put us out of business, OMDs will put us out of business, refractive surgery will put us out of business, commercial optometry will put us out of business, the over-supply will put us out of business, etc).

Go to optometry school because you want to be an OD.

With hard work and the right attitude, success will likely follow.

With a bad attitude, failure is almost guaranteed.

Ultimately only you can decide what you should do with your life. Consider what other options you have and make the choice that feels right to you. Talk to as many ODs as you can and make sure the job is really what you want to do.

If you decide to go to optometry school, watch your debt. The biggest problem I see among recent graduates is the debt service on their student loans.
 
I know that there are more and more optometry schools popping up everywhere where there are at least 10,000 new od's every year. When people arn't getting yearly exams, and the ones that are are going to cheaper places like walmart/costco etc, it leaves a lot less for people that are trying to have their own practice. Plus I can't hire someone to work my saturdays- because it is against the sabbath to make other people to work that day also.

I also was thinking about going into the military so I wouldn't have any debt, but i'm not sure about that decision yet.

The only thing I have thought that I may like is maybe becoming a chiropractor but I don't know anything about them.

I don't know, I just got depressed when I was studying for the OAT today, and then started reading posts by people that said this was the worst thing to go into, but I don't see really many options that I like as much as this one. And I do enjoy everything I do at work, except doing I&R's on 8 year olds who don't want to wear them...

Do you really think obama care would actually influence the optometry world- and do you think they would reimburse us enough if it did?
 
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I know that there are more and more optometry schools popping up everywhere where there are at least 10,000 new od's every year. When people arn't getting yearly exams, and the ones that are are going to cheaper places like walmart/costco etc, it leaves a lot less for people that are trying to have their own practice.

There are currently about 1300 OD graduates a year, 1500 graduates (new schools included), in the US.
 
Try to become a Physician Assistant. I've heard they can make as much as ODs/PharmDs/Dentists at starting wage, and the schooling is only 2 years post undergraduate (from what I remember).

Yes, PA is good if you never wish to own your own practice. Average salary: $81,230

General dentists make almost twice that: $142,870 - that doesn't include what the dental specialists make.

(Source: bls.gov)
 
I know that there are more and more optometry schools popping up everywhere where there are at least 10,000 new od's every year. When people arn't getting yearly exams, and the ones that are are going to cheaper places like walmart/costco etc, it leaves a lot less for people that are trying to have their own practice.

You are either trolling, you made a mistake with a zero or you are ignorant and I don't know that you'll get into an OD school and are just trying to make yourself feel better.
 
When people arn't getting yearly exams

I actually notice a lot of advertising on the radio and TV about going to get your eyes checked by your local eye doctor once a year. It wasn't there before. I live in New York City and this is good news to me.
 
For some reason I expected a lighter post from kandygurl2. Did you get your stats from fox news?

Also, obamacare will ruin optometry. I heard it...somewhere.
 
For some reason I expected a lighter post from kandygurl2. Did you get your stats from fox news?

Also, obamacare will ruin optometry. I heard it...somewhere.

:laugh::laugh:
 
Yes, PA is good if you never wish to own your own practice. Average salary: $81,230

General dentists make almost twice that: $142,870 - that doesn't include what the dental specialists make.

(Source: bls.gov)

This is correct, but this is in regards to dentists that earn a salary( an associate).

BLS:

"Median annual wages of salaried general dentists were $142,870 in May 2008. Earnings vary according to number of years in practice, location, hours worked, and specialty. Self-employed dentists in private practice tend to earn more than salaried dentists."

ADA ( american dental association):

What is a dentist's average net income?

The average net income for an independent private practitioner who owned all or part of his or her practice in 2009 was $192,680 for a general practitioner and $305,820 for a specialist.
 
Yes, I was aware. We were comparing salaries. However, if you want to include private practitioner net income then for optometrists it is: $175,329

This leaves P.A.'s and pharmacists in the dust.
 
Lol GED/associate degree Opticians will not be able to prescribe glaucoma medications. There is a huge gap between optician education and optometrist education. That is our safety buffer. Name one state where opticians can refract? Name two states where optometrists can do eye surgery? See the difference?

Shnurek, you're assuming that an ODs ability to diagnose and prescribe is what is keeping lesser-trained individuals from moving into our turf. The problem is, there are large corporate bodies who could not care less about eye health, they want to move product. Walmart is happily trying to setup employed situations for ODs as we speak and Luxottica is continuing their legal efforts to expand their control over their ODs, and they're doing quite well at it. Do you think Walmart would prefer to pay an OD to sit in the box and prescribe glasses and contacts all day or would they prefer to pay an optician half as much to do the same thing if they could? Don't think for one second that Walmart has any concern for people's eye health. They want to sell materials and if they could do so, they would sell sell sell without any health assessment whatsoever. Also, don't kid yourself into thinking that opticians would not be able to add little to their curriculum and be able to practice at the Walmart level. I've worked with refracting opticians who could easily function in an OD role in a Walmart environment with little or no input from an OD/MD. Some of the more experienced ones I've worked with could correctly diagnose routine anterior seg issues, fit routine and specialty contacts, and even pick up some posterior seg issues. An OD would be signing off on it, but they were doing the leg work. I'm not concerned with opticians taking over our role tomorrow, but thinking that it will never happen because our training is more advanced is a very dangerous line of thought over the long term.

Also with obamacare there will be many millions of more patients, ODs are regarded as physicians on medicare and with your own practice you basically make almost as much as a comprehensive OMD, and the overall population of America is increasing.

I don't even know what to say here. It is pretty much understood in the medical community that Obamacare will suck the life out of ODs and pretty much any other health care provider. Be sure, Obamacare is not designed to help, in any way, shape, or form, the practicing doctor (OD,MD,DPM,etc). It's designed to squeeze every last drop out of existing health care dollars. The "millions" of patients you speak of, if they show up in your office, will be seen by you in exchange for even less money than today, in even less time than today. Please don't plan on Obamacare helping out optometry, it certainly will not.
 
Yes, I was aware. We were comparing salaries. However, if you want to include private practitioner net income then for optometrists it is: $175,329

This leaves P.A.'s and pharmacists in the dust.

That figure is from an AOA internal survey. You've got to be a little more skeptical of information or you'll be buying expensive gear from every sales rep that walks through your door. I wonder if the AOA might bias their numbers a bit, maybe pick and choose which data points to include and which ones to lose in the break room trash can? Those data are largely affected by ODs in large group practices where income tends to be a lot higher. Don't plan on a position like that popping up for newer grads or ever, for that matter. Ownership-track positions in large group OD practices are like attractive women in the field of road repair work=>there aren't many out there. The same thing is happening in law, associates are being hired for low pay in non-partner track positions and new JDs are happy to take them because there's nothing else out there.

Review of Optometry did a survey and came up with the following numbers for 2009. I would venture to say that their data are less likely to be biased than the AOA, but there's nothing that says that these numbers are perfect either. I would have liked to see the sample sizes for the AOA survey, though.

All self-employed O.D.s $127,981 (n = 507)
Solo practitioner $124,262 (n = 288)
Partner/group practice $144,305 (n = 166)
Independent contractor $72,126 (n = 16)

It's worth noting how low the pretax income is for independent contractors since that's where a large percentage new grads are going these days. It's pretty tough to make those loan payments on 72K/yr 😀

http://www.revoptom.com/content/c/22520/
 
Just fyi, the numbers posted are "net income" not pre-tax numbers. Even the article clearly explains this if anyone bothered to read it. So that is either a mistake by the person that posted it or a blatant misrepresentation of the information in the article. Based on the past history of the poster, I'll leave it to the reader to be intelligent enough to figure out which is the reason for that "minor" oversight.

Also, in regards to "net income", I would say that unless you live off of capital gains or are a large corporation, pretty much everyone pays taxes and lives off of net income. 70K in "net income" is about the same as what a Pharmacist would make and most pharmacist I know live fairly well and have no issues making their loan payments.

People should compare apples to apples instead of doing something silly like comparing the lowest net income of an OD to the pre-tax income of a private practice dentist. To be honest, the gross incomes posted in the article aren't as bad as one would expect (from reading here) considering that most people's income is down or stagnant in the recession. If you read the article, it actually gives a somewhat upbeat outlook which is far different from what some people would like you to believe.
 
Just fyi, the numbers posted are "net income" not pre-tax numbers. Even the article clearly explains this if anyone bothered to read it. So that is either a mistake by the person that posted it or a blatant misrepresentation of the information in the article. Based on the past history of the poster, I'll leave it to the reader to be intelligent enough to figure out which is the reason for that "minor" oversight.

Also, in regards to "net income", I would say that unless you live off of capital gains or are a large corporation, pretty much everyone pays taxes and lives off of net income. 70K in "net income" is about the same as what a Pharmacist would make and most pharmacist I know live fairly well and have no issues making their loan payments.

People should compare apples to apples instead of doing something silly like comparing the lowest net income of an OD to the pre-tax income of a private practice dentist. To be honest, the gross incomes posted in the article aren't as bad as one would expect (from reading here) considering that most people's income is down or stagnant in the recession.

Geez, NETmag, and it's even part of your of screen name. :laugh: I'll admit, the article does mention their definition of "net income" and it was my mistake, although I would venture to guess that most people reading the article would view it as I did. One thing I do agree with you is that those numbers (in both the AOA and The Review of Optometry examples) are higher than one would expect. It's probably because those numbers are artificially high to begin with in both cases.

But thanks for coming back yet again and sharing your insightful comments. At least this time, your expertise actually pertained to the topic being discussed, unlike virtually every other OD thread in which you've participated.

If you read the article, it actually gives a somewhat upbeat outlook which is far different from what some people would like you to believe.

Wow, an optometric trade journal presenting an "upbeat" outlook about optometry? What? Who ever heard of such an outrageous event? When has a journalist ever wanted to end an article on a high note? Surely, reading the article with some consideration for the source and its target audience would be foolish. And, let's see, did the optimism pay off? I wonder if the earnings of ODs went up or down from2009 to 2010? Hmmmmm......I guess if it's "expected," then it must be set in stone.
 
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I would not rely on self reported surveys of net income. They will be naturally skewed. There are so many different ways that people define "net" and there are so many different ways to fudge net income it's astounding.
 
This could be true and the poster that posted it should normally just be completely ignored anyway. However, the point is mainly that the information was posted and purposely portrayed to make it into something that it was not. It's not really possible to copy a table of numbers and "accidentally" skip the bolded header literally right above it especially when they also show the gross numbers in another table right below it. Then on top of that to claim in writing that it is something that it clearly said it was not is just a bit too much. Since these posts are archived for future pre-optometry people to see, I felt compelled to call it out for what it was.

Just on a side note, I also find it difficult (if not impossible) to believe that someone "supposedly" of that level of education can't tell the difference between net income and gross income and also can't compose a mature and intelligent response to save their lives. Just my opinion though...🙂
 
This could be true and the poster that posted it should normally just be completely ignored anyway. However, the point is mainly that the information was posted and purposely portrayed to make it into something that it was not.

Would you mind not putting words in my mouth? Thanks. Also, I shouldn't be completely ignored as I have literally tens (....and tens) of fans on here.


Just on a side note, I also find it difficult (if not impossible) to believe that someone "supposedly" of that level of education can't tell the difference between net income and gross income and also can't compose a mature and intelligent response to save their lives. Just my opinion though...

Yushin made the same mistake. Given his training, he is certainly more educated than I. Given the consistently level-headed nature of Yushin's posts, I'm seriously doubting that he is secretly plotting at home to present false data. Get over it, chief, it was a mistake, I admitted it, move on.

It's not really possible to copy a table of numbers and "accidentally" skip the bolded header literally right above it especially when they also show the gross numbers in another table right below it. Then on top of that to claim in writing that it is something that it clearly said it was not is just a bit too much. Since these posts are archived for future pre-optometry people to see, I felt compelled to call it out for what it was.

What on Earth are you rambling about? Tables, paragraphs, numbers? ...."skipped the bold headers?" I thought we already established the fact that I mistakenly assumed that net income was pretax. You seem awfully eager to expose some sort of plot that is not there to expose. Many people define net income as pretax, although I admit (again) that it is incorrect to do so by accounting standards. At any rate, the point was to illustrate the fact that the AOA number quoted by another poster is artificially high. As a matter of fact, the Review of Optometry numbers also seem artificially high, pre-tax, post-tax, it doesn't matter. They do not represent realistic income for what grads entering the profession can expect to bring in. You're telling me I'm trying to deceive people? How about when a prospective OD applicant looks at the AOA survey data and sees 175K as the average annual income for ODs in 2007? Do you think that might be a little misguided? Damn, I forgot, you're not in the eye care field so you probably can't answer that question.


And, just as a side note of my own, you need to work on your usage of quotations. When you're careless with them, you end up saying things you don't actually intend.

What you wrote was....

I also find it difficult (if not impossible) to believe that someone "supposedly" of that level of education can't tell the difference between...


What you probably meant to write was...

I also find it difficult (if not impossible) to believe that someone of that level of education "supposedly" can't tell the difference between...


See, when you use quotes around the word "supposedly," and you place it too early in the sentence as you did, it reads that you are doubting the fact that I have an OD, not that you doubt that someone with an OD could make that mistake, as you clearly intended. Don't worry, though, if you don't get it after the first or second read, just keep reading it until you grab on to the idea, it will make sense eventually. However, I find it difficult (if not impossible) to believe that someone with your education could make that mistake. Are you plotting to destroy the grammar and syntax of the readers of this forum? You know, this stuff will be archived so I just felt compelled to call it out for what it was.

I really appreciate the assumption of papal infallibility, though. Come to think of it, I do own a mitre, but it's of the carpentry variety and not the kind that might adorn the head of the great Pontiff.


Hey, does this mean that I won't be getting that bro-hug I mentioned in Tippytoe's thread?😀
 
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