I Apologize for the Generic Thread

[daolso]

---

Members do not see this ad.

But I have to ask since I'll be applying in a few short months -- what do you guys think my chances are?

I am a dual-degree student in engineering and a biological science, which while incredibly fun has definitely taken a toll on my grades -- I have a 3.5 cGPA, 3.3 sGPA. I know this is significantly lower than what would be considered competitive for MD/PhD programs. And unfortunately, the classes that killed my GPA were the intro ones -- calculus, mechanical engineering and organic chemistry being the major offenders. I know the material, and I like to think I've proven it with higher level classes. I have taken a very rigorous coursework with several grad level classes completed with high grades.

But I'm also wondering how much of that can be made up with other parts of the app.

I got a 40 MCAT score (14 BS, 12 PS, 14 VR), have a little more than 2 years of research experience, 2 summer programs, 4 presentations including 1 international conference. 2 publications in prep but probably won't be submitted by the time of application. I have an approved thesis project, 3 student research grants, and good academic lab experience as well. I'm confident I could get great rec letters. My ECs are kind of borderline besides that, but I can get good letters from my hospital volunteer coordinator, a physician-scientist I shadow, and a professor I TA for.

So I guess my main questions are
1. Is the GPA going to kill my app? Will I get screened early or denied later on solely because of it?
2. Where should I apply? MSAR/USNEWS aren't that helpful, and with my GPA in the 10th-20th percentile and MCAT around the 90th I really don't know what I'm looking for. Should I even attempt top 20 schools or just stick to mid-range and non-MSTP?
(I know the sticky by Neuronix says there really isn't much info available on school choices, but I would gladly taken any anecdotes or personal advice)

Thanks everyone.

 

[debateg]

Your GPA is going to hold you back, no doubt about that. These days, MD/PhD programs are looking for students who are spotless all around. Sadly, that's not true for most of us, which can be frustrating. Different programs have different preferences. For example, some will take someone with a 40 MCAT in a heartbeat regardless of GPA. Others, a lower GPA will be a deal breaker. Some programs will hate applicants from the Midwest. Others will love them. It can sometimes be difficult to get a handle on which programs are which, but if you can find a good adviser at your school who has sent people to MSTP, you can probably get an idea. If your school has an MSTP, you can potentially meet with their director or staff to discuss your realistic options. Use the resources you have around you as much as possible, but remember that not everyone knows what they're talking about despite how confident they say it.

The advice anyone who takes is to apply as broadly as you're willing to apply. That means apply to a lot of schools that vary in terms of quality (top tier, mid tier, low tier) and geography. Decide up front if you're willing to forgo the MSTP for regular MD admission, and if you're willing to compromise, apply to MD-only at some safety schools as well. I'm personally of the opinion that if you spend all the time, effort, and money to apply to medical school in some fashion, you should accept the best offer you get (in terms of quality, cost, location, etc) even if it's not MD/PhD because you can always get into science later in your career. Do not apply to unfunded MD/PhD programs; they are a really bad deal. Do not be afraid to ask important people who know you for favors (e.g. a friendly phone call); people rarely get what they want on their own merit alone, as favors are the currency of academia. The admission process is so random, it can be hard to predict outcome.

 

[daolso]

Your GPA is going to hold you back, no doubt about that. These days, MD/PhD programs are looking for students who are spotless all around. Sadly, that's not true for most of us, which can be frustrating. Different programs have different preferences. For example, some will take someone with a 40 MCAT in a heartbeat regardless of GPA. Others, a lower GPA will be a deal breaker. Some programs will hate applicants from the Midwest. Others will love them. It can sometimes be difficult to get a handle on which programs are which, but if you can find a good adviser at your school who has sent people to MSTP, you can probably get an idea. If your school has an MSTP, you can potentially meet with their director or staff to discuss your realistic options. Use the resources you have around you as much as possible, but remember that not everyone knows what they're talking about despite how confident they say it.

The advice anyone who takes is to apply as broadly as you're willing to apply. That means apply to a lot of schools that vary in terms of quality (top tier, mid tier, low tier) and geography. Decide up front if you're willing to forgo the MSTP for regular MD admission, and if you're willing to compromise, apply to MD-only at some safety schools as well. I'm personally of the opinion that if you spend all the time, effort, and money to apply to medical school in some fashion, you should accept the best offer you get (in terms of quality, cost, location, etc) even if it's not MD/PhD because you can always get into science later in your career. Do not apply to unfunded MD/PhD programs; they are a really bad deal. Do not be afraid to ask important people who know you for favors (e.g. a friendly phone call); people rarely get what they want on their own merit alone, as favors are the currency of academia. The admission process is so random, it can be hard to predict outcome.

Thanks for the advice; unfortunately my premed advisors don't seem to be that knowledgeable about the physician-scientist path, but my school does have an MSTP program. I've spoken to a few staff members, but I've gotten really mixed responses. Are there any schools in particular you think I should avoid? I've been making my list based on location, rank (in bioengineering especially), scores, etc., but I'm not really sure what other considerations I should be making. Right now some schools I'm considering are:

Schools in Ohio:
Case Western
Northeastern
Ohio State
Cincinnati

Non-MSTP (still funded):
Boston University
Wake Forest/VATech
Penn State
UMass
UI Urbana-Champaign
Drexel

MSTP:
UI Chicago
Rochester
UC San Diego
Indiana/Purdue
Emory/GATech
UCLA/CalTech
Duke

Are any of those bad choices? What do you think I can add that I have a better chance of getting in to? I would take an MD acceptance if it was all I got, but my goal here is to become a doctor and a researcher right away, not wait until later in my career to do the science. Thanks again!

 

[debateg]

Those are all decent choices. From the PSTP interview trail this year, Ohio State, UIC, Rochester, UCLA, Emory, and Duke seem to be turning out competitive residency applicants, so I'd say those are probably your "could reasonably get interview, but also not" schools. I think that should form the core of your application. The rest are closer to safety schools; I would pick 5 or so varying in quality as a back-up. You should also add a few on your list that are "dream" schools, e.g. schools you would love to go to but think you don't have a great chance getting into. Non-stellar applicants sometimes slip through... I'm not entirely sure how I got in. It looks like you're aiming for Midwest and East Coast. I would consider adding 1-3 of a place like Wash U, Vanderbilt, UTSW, Michigan, UW Madison, Baylor just to see how things play out. You're probably going to be outright rejected, but if you find that you get offers at those top schools, you will be much more confident on how solid your application is and can schedule the other interviews judiciously.

 

[Fencer]

If you are considering Texas, there are 4 Univ. of Texas MD/PhD schools that are fully funded including a MSTP (UT Southwestern).

 

[kellbell12]

Since you mentioned UI Urbana-Champaign on your list, I just thought I'd give you some info on them, since I just got accepted there. The bioengineering department is awesome and has some really great research, but something to keep in mind is that the med school stipend is only $10,000, so you might still have to take out loans there. Also, the program is not a typical 2-4-2. Instead, you do your PhD first, and take M1 classes throughout those 5+ years. Then you do the last 3 years of med school.

For admissions, I think your biggest concern should be getting into the grad school of your choice. I was not even considered for the MCB or chemical engineering programs that I applied to, which left bioengineering as my only option. However, since I was accepted into the bioengineering department before even interviewing with the med school, I think this helped with the MD/PhD admissions. Nonetheless, I think you've got a strong background regardless of your GPA, so you probably have a good shot of getting in there.

 

[daolso]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions! I'll definitely try to even out the competitiveness of all of my choices, and check out the Texas schools. It wouldn't be my top choice location (pretty far from home, never really been that far south), but anything is fair game really! UT Southwestern also doesn't appear to be ranked for biomedical engineering, so UT Austin might be a better choice for me?

kellbell12, thanks for the info. I hadn't realized the UI Urbana-Champaign program wasn't fully funded. I have heard great things about their engineering research though. Hope you have a great time there.

Of course, I would definitely take any other suggestions for programs to look into. And recommendations about a number of programs. Would about 15 be too many, or an adequate amount? Should I apply to more because my GPA may not be as competitive?

 

[debateg]

There actually is no medical school in UT Austin; they have been trying to build one for years without too much progress. The UT Austin MD/PhD program is actually split between two different locations. You do your PhD at UT Austin in a sprawling campus. You do your MD at UTMB which is in Galveston, TX, which is on an island about 3.5 hours away from Austin and an hour drive from Houston. You're likely to be moving between both campus quite a bit between lab rotations, starting your PhD, and returning to clinics. I can imagine that would be a hassle. UTMB also has their own MD/PhD program where you do everything on their campus in Galveston. If you're interested in biomedical engineering, you're going to be better off joining a program where the biomedical engineering department is located in the same city as the medical school, if only for having a stable living arrangement and social life.