I Can't Decide on Counseling or School Psych????

[PsychsRus]

Hello student doctors!

Here's my problem.

I am a junior in college and am starting to look at some graduate Phd programs. I have people swinging me both ways. My interests too are swinging me both ways. I would love being a Counseling Psych but I have heard there is more of a need in School. I am also all about pursuing passion, but being able to FIND A GOOD JOB, being secure and making something decent is important to me and I don't think counseling is as lucrative...what do you think?

Then there's those who say.. "if you want to be a REAL psychologist, go with counseling???" And I'm like what is that supposed to mean???

Then there's those who say School Psychologists "only do assessments" and "it's all paperwork"... I don't think I'd mind that at all, as long as I get to do other things too...


Anyway, Im just wondering which one is more of a lucrative, smarter choice to make for me if I'm tied between the two and I allredy have undergrad college loans that need to be paid off sometime in the future.

(Please don't say, "choose the one you would be more happy doing.." cause I know both of their job functions and while weighing my options for both it seems like I don't know which way to go.)

P.S If I happen to choose School Psych, would that limit me at all??
Would it be better to be a specialist working in the field first or is it ok to go straight to doctoral if i know I want it anyway?

Thanks guys!😉

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[Therapist4Chnge]

It really depends on what you want to do. School psychology and Counseling psychology were never considerations for me because I was much more interested in severe pathology and more biologically based issues. For others, their interests cross over much more. I'd consider School psychology and Counseling to be pretty different. They types of assessments you do will (mostly) be different. The role will be different, the training is different, etc.

Here is what I wrote in another thread.

Counseling is a pretty general term, so let me try and explain the differences by job type, (how i see it. It can vary by place, so YMMV) It seems that most schools are trending towards a team approach, so you will have more general contact with a variety of people who interact with the children. (Teacher, guidance counselor, school psych, etc)

School Guidance Counselor: Career and educational guidance. There tends to be a good deal of student contact, though probably more breadth than depth (you won't meet with students on end).

School Psychologist: Primarily assessment, screening for LDs, some interaction with teachers, though more likely at the 'team' level. Some schools are more on the assessment/report side, and other schools lean on the integrative approach where there is assessment, but then you help work with the teacher to implement.

Mental Health Counselor / Counselor: General school problems, adjustment issues, etc. Sometimes the guidance counselor does this work, especially in elementary education.

Therapist / Clinician: Referred out to work on particular issues with the child/family. I don't really think most schools keep someone on staff for this role, though more affluent schools may have this option. Clinicians also do assessment, though it falls more on the personality, neuropsych, and behavioral side.

Counseling Psychology would fall into the last category. It is slightly different than clinical psychology because the training tends to have less of a focus on pathology, though the licensure requirements are the same.


-t

 

[deleted176373]

This is an intensely personal decision. You have to look very honestly at what you want to do. Ignore need, if you look on Monster.com (just a data point) the number of openings was about equal, however, there are more counseling psychologists in general. Regardless, the unemployment rate for Ph.D. level psychologists is VERY low.

I do believe that school psychology is more limiting, but that does not mean you cannot get additional training later as a school or counseling psychologist. I know which way I would go, but it's not about me. I think counseling is more lucrative since you can get licensure and go into private practice for a wider audience. That's just my opinion.

Mark

PS - There are a few combined clinical/school and counseling/school programs which might be the best of both worlds. (I am with T4C, and that's why I am in a clinical program.)

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

My bias is towards counseling/clinical because I think it offers more flexibility, but I think there is a need for both. From what I've seen, there are jobs out there for people who want them.

-t

 

[docma]

Here are two things to consider since you are just at the outset of your search: Pick 3 or 4 likely grad school programs in each track that are reasonable for you to consider and read their websites/catalogues in details. Which ones "call" to you when you really get a sense of the faculty and research interests, kinds of fieldwork/practica, etc? Then find a way to talk to graduates of each program--or just a range of people who are actually in careers on each track. Which seem most like who you would like to be 7+ years? Either track can be a good choice for a satisfying career. And if you look for Counseling Psych programs that are in Schools of Education, you may actually keep open the option of work setting until you are further along in the process.

 

[PsychsRus]

Thanks guys..

I am taking the advice about going to each specialization on department websites and looking at what "calls me.."

I understand it's a personal decision.

I know that either or would be a good choice and that I could always get re-liscenced if I want to..

Just wanted to get some more opinions on what, if you guys had the choice would choose (Counseling or School.)
Counseling for the flexibility or School for the assured secureness of getting a job in the schools since there's such "A SHORTAGE" ..putting personal interests aside.🙄

 

[Salsybabe]

Well, originally I was in counseling psychology. I was never that interested in clinical psychology because I didn't like that it focused so much on pathology. I got my master's degree in counseling psychology. It was when I pursued a practicum and internship that I realized I couldn't do the counseling thing full-time or primarily. I also found that I was interested in assessment (I got to do this for a job) and kids. So the master's program helped me to decide to make the switch to school psychology and I am 100% glad I didn't go straight doc. Plus I still have the master's in counseling and I can use that to still do some counseling work if I want. I just can't do it full-time. I'm currently in a doctoral program in school psychology and I don't think it's going to limit me much and I feel that the degree can be pretty flexible. I've talked to school psychologists with doctoral degrees and there's diversity in what they do (teaching, research, consultation, assessment, private practice, working in a hospital, treatment facility). Plus I'm pretty interested in research as well. With a doctorate, you have more options than just the school setting. With the specialist/master's degree you're pretty much limited to the school setting. I would definitely get some experience in counseling to find out if you really enjoy it. Also, shadow a school psychologist if possible or interview one. Also, do you like children and would you want to work primarily with children? Would you be happy not doing much counseling work in your career?

 

[PsychsRus]

To Salsybabe,


Well I haven't had too much work experience with counseling... But I do know that I've had a lot of experiences in my life that taught me I don't really enjoy listening to people's problems and giving them long term talk therapy...maybe a quick one, but not long term.. Thats not my thing. I like to make people feel good and capable beyond their disabilities, I like making people feel comfortable and I like helping people to achieve. Those, I think are my main values. I also love to take a proactive approach to intervention AND prevention. I was also interested in studying how to bring positive psychology methods into schools through certian programs to help young people realize their gifts, stregnths and talents... but I am also interested in self-esteem.
My issue is I could do both with either degree, especially school psychology, but yet counseling is also an option.
I have never assessed anyone but I know what it entails... I don't think I would mind that and I heard school psychs write a lot of reports and I love writing ..
Oh and about me liking children or not.. I really like young adults and would even LOVE working with the college aged..could schools psychs do that?????

 

[deleted176373]

To Salsybabe,


Well I haven't had too much work experience with counseling... But I do know that I've had a lot of experiences in my life that taught me I don't really enjoy listening to people's problems and giving them long term talk therapy...maybe a quick one, but not long term.. Thats not my thing. I like to make people feel good and capable beyond their disabilities, I like making people feel comfortable and I like helping people to achieve. Those, I think are my main values. I also love to take a proactive approach to intervention AND prevention. I was also interested in studying how to bring positive psychology methods into schools through certian programs to help young people realize their gifts, stregnths and talents... but I am also interested in self-esteem.
My issue is I could do both with either degree, especially school psychology, but yet counseling is also an option.
I have never assessed anyone but I know what it entails... I don't think I would mind that and I heard school psychs write a lot of reports and I love writing ..
Oh and about me liking children or not.. I really like young adults and would even LOVE working with the college aged..could schools psychs do that?????

Sounds like a combined program really might be the right choice for you. A counseling psychologist is more likely to find themselves working with college aged young adults, but you are right either degree can get you there I think. Your interests really lie on the fence from what you have been saying.

I wish you the best in your decision, it's a tough one!

Mark

 

[Salsybabe]

To Salsybabe,


Well I haven't had too much work experience with counseling... But I do know that I've had a lot of experiences in my life that taught me I don't really enjoy listening to people's problems and giving them long term talk therapy...maybe a quick one, but not long term.. Thats not my thing. I like to make people feel good and capable beyond their disabilities, I like making people feel comfortable and I like helping people to achieve. Those, I think are my main values. I also love to take a proactive approach to intervention AND prevention. I was also interested in studying how to bring positive psychology methods into schools through certian programs to help young people realize their gifts, stregnths and talents... but I am also interested in self-esteem.
My issue is I could do both with either degree, especially school psychology, but yet counseling is also an option.
I have never assessed anyone but I know what it entails... I don't think I would mind that and I heard school psychs write a lot of reports and I love writing ..
Oh and about me liking children or not.. I really like young adults and would even LOVE working with the college aged..could schools psychs do that?????

I'm actually in a combined counseling/school psych program now, but my focus is school psych and we don't really take counseling psych classes unless they're electives. However, my degree would have me as being in the combined program, just to clear that up 🙂. It's possible to work with young adults and college age students as a school psychologist, especially if you decide to be a professor or you work in a university counseling center. Plus there are some facilities in which you would work with older adolescents and adults and do assessments on them (school psychologists learn to do assessments on adults). However, you would be more likely to work with this population as a counseling psychologist, though it's not impossible as a school psychologist. There is a lot of report writing as a school psychologist (as I'm learning), but there's also a lot as a counselor, too. If you really dislike the counseling aspect, I don't think I would advice you to go into a counseling psychology program because that's what your practicums and internship are going to entail. You don't want to be miserable, although it's possible after getting the degree to do little counseling. If you have any more questions, don't hesitate to ask. I'm just a first-year, but I'm learning quite a bit 🙂. I'm also interested in prevention programs in the schools.

 

[PsychsRus]

Thanks again you guys!!!

Oh and Salsybabe,

Did you go straight into a doctoral program or already have a specialist degree? I would like to go straight doctoral.. do you think it's necessary for an SP to have work experience as a specialist first before the doc. or it doesn't matter???

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Thanks again you guys!!!

Oh and Salsybabe,

Did you go straight into a doctoral program or already have a specialist degree? I would like to go straight doctoral.. do you think it's necessary for an SP to have work experience as a specialist first before the doc. or it doesn't matter???

I'd say the majority of school psych people out there have MS's or Specialist degrees...because they are the entry level degrees (depending on the state). If you want to be in the best position, I'd suggest going for a Ph.D. in school psych or a combined program (school & clinical). Of course....the combined programs are much more competitive.

-t

 

[Salsybabe]

Thanks again you guys!!!

Oh and Salsybabe,

Did you go straight into a doctoral program or already have a specialist degree? I would like to go straight doctoral.. do you think it's necessary for an SP to have work experience as a specialist first before the doc. or it doesn't matter???

I have a master's degree in counseling psychology (mentioned above I believe). I know for my program, they seem to prefer people to have a master's degree in an applied field. So I got my master's prior to entering a doctoral program and I didn't do any work as a school psychologist and didn't do any applied work besides my counseling practicum and internship. It didn't seem to matter for my program. What seemed to matter was having some applied experience and research experience and knowing what you want because you cannot change your emphasis once in the program.

 

[Jon4PsyD]

Well this is the third thread on this topic in recent weeks, so you're not the only one. It's so confusing all of these specializations.

After getting my Bachelor's in Psychology and getting into NO PsyD programs, I'm in a Master's program in Counseling. I absolutely love it. A lot of soul searching went on:
After college I worked at a Psych rehab outpatient clinic. It became clear I didn't want to work with persons with such severe pathology (So the no-go on the PsyD was a blessing in diguise).

I'm currently getting my Master's in Counseling (with a specialization in School Counseling, due to my internship placement) and am going to go for my Certificate of Advanced Graduate Study (C.A.G.S.) next year in Counseling, this time with the specialization in Mental Health Counseling which will make me eligible for the LMHC exam.

Working in a school this year has made me realize I would never want to be a School Psychologist as it actually IS a lot of assesment/testing and little to no actual therapy and my work experience made me realize I don't want Clinical either. So when I apply for the doctorate it will be exclusively in Counseling Psychology programs, which allows for MUCH flexibility (private practice, supervision, college counseling centers, ability to teach at the college level).

I wish you the best of luck!!
For me I'm the type that needs to experience things in order to KNOW, so for me that helped, for you it might not.

Also I think applying to these doctoral programs is like a political campaign and you really have to advertise yourself well. So the way I see it, the more experience the better🙂

 

[PsychsRus]

Jon4PsyD,


You are so right about getting experience, which is often the best teacher. College Counseling and/or teaching really interests me. I don't think I would really enjoy working at the high school level..
My college advisor and some others r saying the same thing about "counseling psych" in terms of flexibility.

I'll let you guys know what I decide..lol

 

[psychometric]

Just curious; does anyone know of a program that offers a combined PhD/ PsyD route?😕

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Just curious; does anyone know of a program that offers a combined PhD/ PsyD route?😕

In what School Psych/Clinical?

Go HERE for the thread.

 

[psychometric]

I found the article I had read about the combined degree:

http://www.apa.org/ed/accreditation/model_notes.pdf

view section "Dr. Schilling"

maybe I am misunderstanding what they are talking about; what do you guys think?


Also, there has been a post on this before; I just found it--> restructuring the Ph.D/PsyD